See, this is what I love to read.  Other players demonstrating that the existing rewards provide versitility and options to the game.  Some (like myself) see them as avenues to explore events and tournmanets, while others see them as potential sources of energy substitutes.  Still others in this thread mention using them as a source for books.  This is the value that the old rewards brought to the game.  It allowed players of varying stages to determine what they wanted to use these resources for, and how they wanted to interact with the game.  It encouraged players to play the game

The current rewards whereby you have to wait 4 months to get a (potentially duplicate) legendary doesn't drive players to play the game.  It just encourages players to log in, get the fragments, then log out.  Sure, after another 120 days they get the legendary and they can finally do something with it (assuming they haven't already gotten Cleo from a shard pull), but it's still 120 days of doing nothing.  

If the goal of this change is to encourage players to stick around after 180 days, then give them something to do!

PS. I don't know how many days I am in as I've been looping through the 271+ rewards at least a couple of times.  Probably about 380 odd?

Cleopterix rating:

Spider: HH 5, Ayumi 3

Fire dragon: HH 4.5 Ayumi 1

Dragon: HH 4, Ayumi 3

Doom tower frost spider: HH 5 Ayumi 2

I do detect a slight discrepancy here...Also direct quote from the HH site: "With a strong set of base stats, we anticipate Cleopterix could hit pretty hard." means she was never tested in actual. runs, just her kit was looked at.

also don't forget 99% of people receiving her will use her unbooked as she requires 12 books. Then her aoe has a 75% chance not a 100% one and not many have 12 unused legendary books lying around..

The question is not is she decent when booked but is she decent unbooked?

Direct quote of your post

"I can only assume that those who continue to hate it either a) don't want to admit they were wrong.."

You don't hate the change.

Means you are right and everyone disagreeing with you is wrong. Feel free to bring up an logical argument for a different interepretation.

I have listed several reasons earlier on why the shard ( in my opinion) is superior to a login reward. You telling me, listing these reasons is not a "constructive discussion"? 

That is an informal logical fallacy known as ad hominem.

You are completely ignoring :

player agency (shard to be used at any point for any event)

shard getting not only legndaries but also epics. It'ss not like only legendaries advance your account.

Of course there are people who value certainity (even if its mediocre) over rng. That is a compeltely valid opinion to have, but it's just an opinon as is my point of view and not absolute truth.

A very rare case where HellHades has better ratings for a champ than Ayumi. I don't use the Ayumi ratings anymore, because they are exaggerated good in most cases. Why Cleopterix has such a bad rating from Ayumi, I can't tell. But it doesn't seem consistent, compared to, for example starterchamp Galek, who gets 4 stars at Dragon from Ayumi, while Cleopterix only gets 3. 

HellHades has a separate categorie for Doom Tower waves (Cleopterix rated 5*), and that indeed shows where she is good: any wave content. I guess the good ratings from HellHades for Cleo in dungeons doesn't come from her capability of fighting the bosses, but of controlling the waves.  Even that A2-skill has a downside, you need an allready active Hex to place the block active skills debuff. On the other hand, her A1 has weaken, so even in boss-fights she brings some utility. 

All in all Cleopterix is no top tier champ, but not trash either. I would say upper middleclass among all legendaries - and therefore a perfect free champ. Plarium can't give champs like Krisk, Hegemon, BEK and Valk for free, for the reason I allready wrote above. Who would still buy anything if you get the best champs for free? Who would still play after a while, when you can easily beat every content because you get the best champs for free?

To answer your question "What is the further goal for a player that has every top champ and beaten every content in the game?": To play through new content which demands new champs?! 

I know that they will never realise what I suggested in my former posting, but that was one reason for me to go on with this game. Rhazin is not my only dupe which is a real shame. I am not sure if everything in this game is real RNG. Sometimes it seems that there are some mechanisms or algorithms which hinder you getting new champs or at least affect the probabiltity of getting other no dupe champs. Or why is it that I have e.g. 4 Steelskulls, two Galas, two Martyrs, two Rhazins etc.? 

Because I - if possible - fully book champs if I really do need them, dupe champs do make no sense to me except perhaps MAX HP champs as CH. CH is the only champ I have fully skilled and leveled twice. The only use dupes make is sacrificing them to level up other champs. Yeah, good idea, sacrificing a Martyr or Rhazin!?!?!?! Not very motivating. 

I WOULD NOT FULLY BOOK CHAMPS IF BOOKS COULD BE APPLICATED DEAD BY TARGET !!!

No offence, it's only frustrating.

You  are  again,  either  failing  to  understand  the  english  language,  ignoring  everything  I've  said  to  you  or  just  trolling.  You've  been  warned  before.  I  think  we're  done  here.

And  for  anyone else  who  cares  enough,  this  was  never  my  argument,  I  was  just  using  someone  elses  argument  against  them  from  the  oposing  side.

i

i

your complaining about a 12 book legend LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good grief I wish all Legends were ONLY! 12 books

i dont care about chikens...they are time and energy, but time and energy are relative....but for Shards i care...as previously said, that are 12 more Epic shampion...or 4 Lego...but this Lego are not choosable...i need Skullcrusher...i need Maneater...for 3 years pulling void shard i have 3 void epics, do change here...Plarium gave me Bird-woman...its a chick, nice, but will not help us anywere than Factions and may be OffArena...so, fragments for guaranteed lego, who is, well, lego, but no so much...it will be far better to give us Universal fragments...my account is full with uncompleted fusions who just stay there to 60-70-95%....how to complete them...i preffer to do this, than just to increase population of bird-womans....and please, when remove shards from rewards, then remove and summon rush from fussions, it is not fare for f2p players....and for a God sake, Plarium, give us shard counter...it is very easy to implement it...i am really bored to count them on paper...finally, seems to me, this game will become only playmate for rich people, like anything else...so may be its time for search another...

Wow, on my laptop those screen shots are MASSIVE

Harbby, I'm gonna need your screenshots to settle down. Settle. It. Down. :D

You're  gonna have to  come talk to them,  they won't settle down.

This is me too

I want the chance of champs i actually need such as for example valk

A lego i dont need is worthless, i pulled a couple of ancients for cvc today and popped bloodgorged.

Straight into the vault as i have no use, and its the same for cleo.

My  opinion is  I  don't like  the  change.  I'm  FTP  (300  days)  and  loved  the  chance  to  pull  a  "Trunda"  after  every  30  days . Early  game  it  was a  great  chance  to  pull  an  awesome  Lego  or  Epic  ( and  yes,  I  did  get  a  dud  or  two).   I  always  kept  my  Sacreds  for  a  fusion  event  and  that's  what  finally  allowed  me  to  complete  my  first  fusion. 

I  also  just  pulled  Cleo  from  my  last  Sacred  Shard  and  now  I  have  a  dupe  to  look  forward  to   in  4  months.  😢

Fully agree with you!

Cirilla and Bananajam 

I loved this chat.  Plarium does seem to be listening to everyone's diverse opinions.

Yes, I saw this earlier too.  First of all, I want to note that I genuinely do enjoy the interviews with Cirilla and banana_jam from the various content creators, as well as the videos posted on the official channel.  I always find out that I've been pronouncing some champions wrong (e.g. Kael and now Scyl)

That said, I found their reasoning for this to be paper thin, with the exception of the confirmation that the rewards were too valuable to be given out daily.  This locks the reasoning in as purely financial.  They also say it was abused by bot accounts, which I guess is what Plarium are calling every FTP account.

 Below is the transcript for those that don't want to watch the full hour long video.  Everyone can come to their own conclusions

"...It's just that we needed to make some changes to make sure that the daily login program fits whole picture of how we see the game developing in the future and the status quo of the way that players receive their champions within the game"

"so there are a couple of factors that we took into consideration when making that decision, and the first one was that this replacement was one of the leverages for us to influence the players experience in terms of receiving champions at a certain stage of their game progression.  What I mean is that we need to make sure that players get a certain champion for completing different tasks within the game rather than receiving just a sacred shard and getting a random champion out of it. "

"the second one was, we don't have a problem with just giving out those rewards, I mean you can get a sacred shard in quests, in doom tower on the hard mode, also there's a chicken in the advanced quests and stuff like that.  It's just that those are really valuable rewards and we want to be giving them for actual in-game actions, and not just for logging in."

"That was the way for abuse of the system for bot accounts that would just get in and take that chicken and sacred shard, and then do what they do with those bot accounts"

"Also, we took into account the way that the daily login program looked before in all the other parts that preceeded the 271 patch, and all those had really useful champions that are great and nobody can argue that, and those are especially great in the beginning of your game progression.  It may seem like it's for end game players but it is important for newer players.  

You don't have that many nice champions in the beginning of your way, so that was the motivational part.  Also we thought about what champion we wanted to include in this part of the program and Cleopterix was not chosen incidentally.  At the time she was a new champion and not a lot of players had already received her, and she also belongs to the faction that cannot brag with the number of champions available there (Skinwalkers).  More players are often in need of more champions to be able to actually try in that faction crypt so we wanted to give them a champion that would help"

"Also as I said before, this is one of the examples of the bigger picture.  She (Cleopterix) is going to reveal herself even more with the addition of new features and lets just say that Drexter in the bazaar was not exactly welcomed warmly at first but right now ... (the conversation trails off but essentially indicates that everyone loves this now)"

They essentially finish off by asking everyone to just wait a bit and give it some time.  

Use your same logic to calulate opening 100 shards.  Now  I would expect to pull 12 leggos out of 100 shards, would you agree?  12% literally means 12 out of 100.  so x out of 100 at 12% chance then  x =12  correct?  x out of 12 at the same 12% rate = 1.44.   Using your math you will NEVER get to 1.00.   Use your formula for opening say 1000 shards and how many would you expect.   I would expect 120 out of 1000, and your formula will get you ALMOST 1 out of 1000.

I figured it out, what you are calculating is the chance to get 0 and reversing it.  You are definitely correct that we  will get some number greater than 0 successes 78% of the time across 12 pulls, but you are not calculating that the number greater than 0 will be 1 or 2 maybe 3, really any number up to 12 and the AVERAGE of these non 0 numbers will be 1.44, which is the expected result.  But using 12% chance times 12 to get to that 1.44 would be easier.  

That's what I gathered from it. Bot accounts doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because I don't understand why there would be bot accounts logging in everyday for nearly a year. Besides, how does this change hurt bot accounts anyways? I assume they mean bot accounts accruing lots of shards, chickens, champions and then selling the account off but would they wait nearly a full year to sell the account? I doubt it, Just seems to be a "good" way to excuse this move to everyone. They would have been better just saying that they wanted to remove the randomness of shards and give everyone a legend champ, sounds better than the reasoning they gave us.

What I disliked most about their explanation was that you could get the chicken and shards through DT hard and quests. You could already get them from those area's of the game before the change so that's irrelevent, they would have to ADD some other way to get those in game for the average player ON TOP of the ways you could already get them. 

Then there is another problem, and this may only be in my (and my friends cases), but I'm not even able to get to the first boss in DT Hard and I've been playing for over a year. In fact I just managed to beat normal a week ago for the first time, So the DT rewards are even more irrelevent for those who don't spend a lot, have gotten really lucky with pulls, or have been playing for a long time.

Honestly the shard doesn't hurt that much, the chicken is the big problem as it takes forever to 6* champs and those chickens are a huge reduction in grind time.

I made it to floor 99 in Doom tower and I have logged in 260 days, and this is the furthest I have gone.  I also have not made it to the first boss in DT hard so  I also have an issue with them saying they took the rewards away because you can get them elsewhere.  I can understand the thought of some here in this thread saying they would take a guaranteed non-dupe leggo over 4 shards, but would they feel the same if they pull Cleo at some point before day 360??  Would you take a guaranteed dupe over the 4 shards then?  We are talking about the daily login rewards for days 271-360, not early game where a guaranteed leggo like Cleo will make a huge impact on your team.  The part where they said they looked at the previous monthly rewards and noted the guaranteed champion, and then comparted that to 1/4 of a champion is quite a stretch in my mind.