Maybe im dumb but i tried 5 positions now it eated me alive and i got allmost no return like lvl 45 position = 17 agemas payout and i lost 100k in phalax heavy and light + 1 agema to do it what you get is not even near in resources or off/def power back from what you invested, i preffer the old way where i actually could have got least something... now no persians 4 me no more.

Maybe u need to pay your last payout to get masive reward ??

if thats the problem ill get payout in a year or so... last payout 863 agemas and 130 mpetls :D but just to be sure it would be nice that mister moderator explains this coz im not in mood to sacrifice entire army to test it out lol

" From now on, you can expect a guaranteed reward every time you clear a Persian Position, rather than the hit-or-miss system previously in place! While this means fewer giant rewards, it assures you'll never walk away from a Persian Position victorious but empty-handed. "

What i understand u still get giant rewards  , but when ??  bank/payout ??

it might be worth bearing in mind these 'upgrades' may not all be live yet...

payout no where near what you put in, its a joke its not even half and then you add resources that don't amount to anything? back to the old way at least I know if it doesn't pay out its just adding up for the big pay out

this is not persians this is a tragedy but u can allways win if u put a mil drachmas into game!!!! xd

if they just reduced the over all payout for doing persian positions, this can only mean Xerxes has stolen the oracle

Plarium you are killing the game; invested over 5m in units doing Persian positions and got back 1.5m about 30%. This is not fun anymore, not even with discount to purchase units. Not interested any more.

When it come to Guarantee Certifications method, you actually will lose most  of all

Each position you take down will guarantee a 30% payment of the reward so that mean burning out 70% of the unit will never be refund like the old time.

The Event has change to using low class unit of 100% point to exchange a 30% higher unit instead the 70% of the loses will never be return at all.

This will ensure fast dropping in unit number, so if youre having problem with this method it wise that you dont spend anymore unit to do this kind of hard work less earn event.

instead if thing go bad........just pack up and travel.

I agree with PrimeGuardian; stop playing Persian Positions and likely the game.

With the change taking action as of today, let's take a look at the differences between the two systems. Keep in mind that this is solely my own experience.

Under the old system, you would usually have to put in 110% of what you last earned in order to get a payout. Let's say you earn 400 mounted peltasts (3 million resources). To get the next payout, you would have to lose 440 mounted peltasts (3.3 million resources) and complete a position close in level to the payout. Then you would have to pay 3.6 million, then 3.9 million, so on and so on.

With the new system, you immediately earn a percentage of the units you lose. Let's say you earn 400 mounted peltasts, and threw them all back into positions to get 100-200. Then you throw those back into positions and only get 50-100. What gives?

The persian positions still operate under the bank/payout method of the old system, but you're constantly making small withdrawals. You have to subtract the value of the units you gain from the units you lose to calculate the actual deposit. Losing 400 mounted peltasts and gaining 200 back means the deposit consists of 200 mounted peltasts. Losing 200 again and gaining 100 back means the total deposit now consists of 300 mounted peltasts. You still have a ways to go in order to bank the 440 mounted peltasts for the next big payout, even though you're at 25% of your original strength. 

Why make the change?

Under the old system, positions were relatively easy to play from levels 1-100. You could profit in millions of units. When you finally get to levels 100+ and especially level 125 though, you start to notice some glaring problems. A level 125 position could reward 8000 agema horsemen (194,216,000 resources). While they were awesome to get, they also presented a huge question. How in the world do you get 19,421,600 resources worth of units in order to pay the interest and get another payout? Without drachmas, you would have to spend weeks and weeks training units just for one payout, only to repeat the process again. Without taking the time to prepare, players would commonly throw all 8000 agema horsemen back into positions and get absolutely nothing back.

The worst case scenario of earning 0 units no longer exists as long as you can complete a single position. Losing 8000 agema horseman should gain you 1000-4000 back. You should be able to see more value in your units if you are a positions player, since they'll repeatedly recycle themselves. They should last by the time you're capable of paying the interest and getting another big payout.

Now that you know this information, try playing positions again and come back with more experienced feedback. We'd love to hear it.

If you have any questions regarding the new algorithm for persian positions, post them in this thread and I'll get try to back to them. 

Edit: grammar

Changing this method mean there no more Light Unit+Heavy+Phalanx to get Cavalry

Instead it turn into, how many you spend on that position it only return 30% as reward so how many time you do, it only 30% reward while the 70% is DEAD...and i mean DEAD that u cant eventually taken it back from what you lose.

using lower unit from light+heavy+phalanx and sacrifice them to the persian will reward you cavalry but the number of loses remain 70%.

1m defensive unit that mean u only get 300k per completing an position that mean there is 700k unit of various type still hold at the bank....build up lower unit complete the position to exchange to higher unit like phlanx and cavalry of 30% while 70% remain at persian bank...keep swapping if you have lower unit till the bank hold 70% low unit instead it count as 700k defensive unit of various type.

PrimeGuardian said:

Instead it turn into, how many you spend on that position it only return 30% as reward so how many time you do, it only 30% reward while the 70% is DEAD...and i mean DEAD that u cant eventually taken it back from what you lose.

Actually, you will eventually earn that 70% back.

What do you mean by "DEAD" and do you know that? Previously the core idea was troops lost while fighting persians do accumulate to eventually be returned as a bigger payout. Now i can understand an alternate logic saying guaranteed rewards, but this does not mean the core idea changed

Ovidiu78 said:

What do you mean by "DEAD" and do you know that? Previously the core idea was troops lost while fighting persians do accumulate to eventually be returned as a bigger payout. Now i can understand an alternate logic saying guaranteed rewards, but this does not mean the core idea changed 

You're right, since you can still weaken several positions without finishing them to raise your bank.

I undesrtand the new system will rather fraction payouts if you finish them all rather than just grind them partially as usual.

It sounds more like an answer to impatient players who don't even evaluate their losses to know where they are towards the bank and come only saying "I've hit Persians n times and still no reward".

Anyway, I've stil got to try it, but first, finishing to pay the bank back, i.e. not finishing any position yet as I'm about half way. Only then I'll try to finish several positions in sequence (the usual way to actually get the payout when it has random chances to drop) and check what I get.

P.S. : moderators are only that : forum moderators. We're not Plarium engineers.

Today i tested on a l22 defensive positions with not yet venture sign.

I send in 500 javeline+20cretan and 10 thuerephoros all max agreement.

Total dead unit is 430jav+16cretan+8Thurephoros

Reward unit from completing this l22 def position is 24 Cretan

Accumulate of 30% reward from 90% dead unit

deducted i lose 60% of the unit that i send.

and there is no way i can get this 60% unit back in any position reward at all, so i test on 2nd offensive position of l53

Send in 200 Macedonian Cavalry

Lose 189 Cavalry

Reward 35 Agema

Result is i lose 70% of the macedonian Offensive cavalry.

Conclusion: Actually u cant regain back the each position unit you have lose from any position u gonna hit afterward because the position will only return 30% of what u spent to that position only.

I give up, i will never spend any single unit to this persian position onward.

Greetings all! 

I tried to provide you with more information on the changes, as  the update on Positions reward system may trigger a lot of questions (and I see it already).

1. Why did we decide to make these changes?

We have always received countless complaints from players claiming that "Positions weren’t working" or assuming that we’d changed the Positions payout system.

Some of our players thought that reward system was working incorrectly exclusively for them, as they would see huge rewards on screenshots shared on the Forums by other players, while receiving nothing (or only small rewards) themselves. One of the main problems was that players would end up losing most or all of their army before getting a reward.

This was a problem especially for new players who still hadn’t learned the intricacies of how Positions worked, and also for some of our veteran players, who were engaging higher-level Positions, where the gaps between payouts were significantly longer (but the rewards were bigger). So, we decided to alter the scheme to avoid this frustration.

Now, you will save some of your troops if you lose a battle against Xerxes. Sure, it’s not enough of an army to mount another attack right away, but it’s still better than losing after walking into a Persian ambush you weren’t prepared for!

2. Did my reward progression (in other words - Positions Bank) reset to zero?

No, Archons, all your results were not reset. You can continue hitting Positions and get the rewards you’ve been building up to.

3. Why do I get small rewards, despite numerous losses?

From now on, you get small rewards for every win. Gods feel that you deserve to get a prize for every victory. You worked hard to win a battle for the Position you should be rewarded for taking this challenge.

This doesn't mean that you won't also get those bigger rewards you used to get prior to the update. Those still happen – there’s just greater consistency now.

4. How do these frequent small rewards affect the overall reward system?

You'll need to hit more Positions in order to claim the big rewards you used to get. On the other hand, you will always receive bonus troops for a win.

5. Will we still get big, really big, rewards for Positions?

As we have added the rewards for every victory, the really big rewards will be rarer, but you can still get them if you keep fighting at the Positions.

>> Archons, be advised: changes to the rewards system were made with extreme care – our priority was to keep the overall rewards balance the same. <>

One more thing, every Archon has his / her own reward progression stage, so not all the advantages will immediately be obvious to everyone.

Give yourself some time to analyze the update.

The system is new, so you will need to commit some time and thought to it and recalibrate your strategy. This is a challenge that real Archons are faced with often!

If you still have any questions, feel free to leave them below.