Basileus Leonidas said:

Get Guaranteed Rewards at Persian Positions!

Defeat Xerxes' Forces and Save Your Warriors!

Archons!

Our Scouts have gotten their hands on a messenger delivering documents from Xerxes to his armies!

The information we have received will be used to give you an advantage in your battles against Persian Positions!

1. New measures have been implemented in order to reduce Unit loss. From this point on, a percentage of all Units sent out to battle at Persian Positions will return unharmed in the event of lost battles.

The combat will be monitored, and if the Oracle foretells that the Persians will come out on top, new orders will be delivered to your warriors and 30% of them sent safely back to your City. You can then start regrouping and amassing a mightier force for your next attempt.

Be advised: This only applies if the fight is close. If you send an army that is too weak to a Position, your warriors won’t be saved before the Persians get to them!

2. The Position payout algorithm has also been altered. The gods reward those brave Archons who consistently show up for battle!

From now on, you can expect a guaranteed reward every time you clear a Persian Position, rather than the hit-or-miss system previously in place! While this means fewer giant rewards, it assures you'll never walk away from a Persian Position victorious but empty-handed.

Get out there and fight courageously, Archons, for victory is close at hand!

30% back, and the rest of 70% from our pocket? we lose 5-6 positions in a row, so, where is the win for us? for you is a lot, of course, you force players to put more and more money inside, and get rich, but we, what do we win from this game, where is the fun? wait another 2-3 position, with another, only 30% guaranteed reward is a bad joke for us, trust me, who will play further?

i don't like this new system change at persian position.

please change it back to the old system, i can't bare looking each complete position "guarantee reward" keep appearing but it weaker unit.

PrimeGuardian said:

i don't like this new system change at persian position.

please change it back to the old system, i can't bare looking each complete position "guarantee reward" keep appearing but it weaker unit.

I'll be sure to tell Plarium that PrimeGuardian doesn't like the new change. 

It will be difficult to give a decent or profound answer, simply because when you do the persians you have to work with a spreadsheet and another tactic now.

Before; payout +10% = next investment ==> next payout. These investments you did mostly with the rest 1 bar method. The method had 2 advantage; a) you could calculate when you had paid the bank back. b) You also knew where you could find your next pay out. 

Specially for the high ranked players this was of course important, because when in times of need of the payout they knew what to do. For the low ranked player (or starters) it was a nightmare, because most of the time they ended up with no troops at all anymore. And they didn't calculate at the start, so they didn't knew when the pay out would be ready.

For the moment, I have no opinion if the new system is better or worser. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I had my payout. So now it will be to calculate and restart with the persians to see if you still can gain troops yes or no. 

As it works now; for the low lvl players it will be an advantage; they always will have some troops back, so not completely empty. 

For the high ranked players, it will be a big chance of calculations and troop use. I can imagen when you do a high lvl persian position that you don't do that with jav's or swords or hoplites anymore. But what if your new payout gives you these troops ? Then you are forced to use these troops again, but also with a disadvantage to be able to recover your total losses you had spend on the persians. And these high ranked players just went up with the persians, just to be sure they had the amount of troops when they needed them and not only the amount, but also the type of troops they needed. With the new system, it seems not possible anymore. 

till now i didn,t even dare to send 1 or 2 unit to this persian position for few day after i test out with my army to see the big reward

Losing 400 agema, 250 macedonia cavalry, 680 thuerephoros, 250 cretan and 800 jav just to clear 7 position had weaken my whole army badly, and there is no way i'm gonna spend the rest of my army at acropolis to clear any positio from l39 to 60

because the feeling telling me that if i send them out, there no guarantee that there is big reward like other player often say...even have...those were my elite army and i don't wanna get big reward of phalanx when i send out this cavalry army.

also im starting to scare of using to much army to clear position till getting big reward......this new system directly causing terror to player,

scare of losing to much army to bank with 30% return each complete

scare of no big reward after few more completing position

scare of getting lower unit by sending the elite unit to complete the last bar

scare of losing most of you're elite unit during completing last bar

scare of getting big reward yet not cover the loses

this new system directly causing terror to the gameplay, ever since the loses i'm losing my faith of persian and the loses at bank never know when it gonna be return...

there is no way i'm gonna send out my cavalry unit for the big reward that i don't even know how many more need to hit....too scary

Test results are in.

This is the last big payout.

The next set of screenshots is just loading the bank.

http://prntscr.com/7s1s0p

http://prntscr.com/7s1rw3

http://prntscr.com/7s1rrt

http://prntscr.com/7s1rm2

http://prntscr.com/7s1rha

http://prntscr.com/7s1rcr

http://prntscr.com/7s1r7u

http://prntscr.com/7s1r2y

http://prntscr.com/7s1qsf

http://prntscr.com/7s1q8c

http://prntscr.com/7s1qkm

This particular hit occurred before the last payout, but I thought you guys might want to see it weakened. Don't count this as a deposit for the next payout.

http://prntscr.com/7s1sr6 Still weakening that pesky 101 quest position.

http://prntscr.com/7s1u1y

http://prntscr.com/7s1uer Now that I finished the 101 offensive quest position, the 101 defense position turns into a regular position with regular payouts.

The current bank is 52,780,739. 110% of the last payout is 62,133,500. Estimated casualties of completing the desired payout position (the 101 former quest) is 1504 mounted peltasts, which would be 11,280,000 resources, pushing the bank to 64,060,739 resources, which should be a payout. Keep this number in mind.

Just to be safe, I'm actually going to overbank so that I can absolutely guarantee a payout on the next hit. This is an optional step, and you could probably hit the payout now, but I do it to ensure consistency.

http://prntscr.com/7s1vg9 Turns out to overbank 4,218,000.

Now it's time for the payout. I didn't have 1504 mounted peltasts, so I used a mix of thorakites and mounted peltasts.

http://prntscr.com/7s1vzk

The total deposit comes out to be 69,446,739 and the payout comes out to be 65,731,060 resources. So I lost about 4 million. Now wait, doesn't that number seem familiar? It turns out to be what I overbanked. If I didn't overbank, I would have deposited 65,228,739 and profited by 502,321.

So sure I lost 4 million resources and 100k offense, but I got 700k more defense. 

A few important things to draw from this.

The deposit is what you lose minus what you gain.

The bank/payout algorithm still works.

High level positions do not pay out light/heavy infantry as some people think they do.

Have fun.

Edit: Grammar

P.S. It is now 2'o'clock in the morning and I am tired. Good night all. I'll be back to answer questions tomorrow.

tools.

Marcos said:

you will never receive a reward greater than the amount you have deposited.

This is untrue for both systems.

We were all new players at one point and along the way we have lost our armies and kept going on but I am now at the point of quitting the game. For me plarium are only changing the algorithms to benefit themselves well at least line their pockets a little better. So far all I have seen is small payouts and I will not invest any more $ or troops in a system that doesnt give what is advertised. But hey everyone has their own point of view right phontomelite. They say that this is a free game but its spend or fall behind when you have some of the biggest players and coalitions in the game saying the same thing Plarium really need to sit up and take notice or risk loosing many long time loyal players. Then they will find a new game and I am almost willing to bet that it doesnt have Plarium associated with it. Please plarium listen to what is being said to you guys

>>Important update, warriors. 

Thanks.

At least we can now invest all we send weakening positions, as the remaining 30% were actually just not fighting at all, instead of just returned.

Your modification will at least help calculating the bank ! :)

As a reminder, the Persian positions are completely optional. The experienced players are free to stop playing positions whenever they want. I'm sure the players who take the time to learn the new system will gladly occupy the vacant slots at the top of the rankings, as there is now significantly less competition. 

Have a good day.

This new reward systems bites. Go back to the old.

listen to us plarium , we are the ones that support you

TheElitePhantom said:

Test results are in.

This is the last big payout.

The next set of screenshots is just loading the bank.

*SNIP*.

The deposit is what you lose minus what you gain.

The bank/payout algorithm still works.

High level positions do not pay out light/heavy infantry as some people think they do.

Have fun.

Edit: Grammar

P.S. It is now 2'o'clock in the morning and I am tired. Good night all. I'll be back to answer questions tomorrow.

Try the second round, you shall noticed it's not that easy anymore.  I must had my big reward again, I'm still fishing for the moment. I get troops as a reward to finish of the persians, but it's delaying me from my 'big reward' .. and yes with troops, I'm not looking forward for the moment 

Is the new system better or worser ? It's better for the low lvl players and newbie's.  I can live with that. The rewards are better then what they invest, so they shall continue the game 

At the other hand, I can understand the complaining about the veteran players. Finally they where able to beat the system and .... punch.....  a change..... 

I hope they shall still get satisfied also.... 

why we have not a bank indicator, it will be much fairer, with colors bars: red / green, or  % bar. when over 110% : hit , hit , hit !  We must know exactly when we can weak and when kill that position! We play not a casino here, we just play a simple game!

or smiles: 

 My last full reward was a level 80 position with 1367 macedonians and  273 mounted. Since then, i finissed all my 99% down positions, about 30 positions and still no more full reward, all with only 30% return: 

80,109,107,95,99,110,115,75,79,86,93,95,104,125,39,27,36,125,71,83,82,52,79,97,81,89,81,49,95,65.

So, when come , please my next big reward?

and the bank include all our loses inside (takeover+pvp / pantheons quests, etc.) ? or only from pp (persian positions)?

in this case, the game trick us a lot, they put us to make another quests to lose our army, give fast nothing in return, to force us to put more and more money inside to buy drahmas, but we are not dumb to make that. Is not fair to lose all our investment for 1 year in persians positions in pvp quest and then realize that we must invest again, and wait for months to make another army to play pp, if my lowest position is 80 for example!

Is very important this win/loses bank indicator, is easy to make and show respect to us!

Game cheat us = we no more invest money = game lose fast all old best players = plarium down, is that what this game owner want? 

in conclusion,

all loses must count to the bank, we must have a real  win/ loses  indicator = more much respect to us!

Is your game, but our money! Have fun, I have no more!

Yeah, if they wanted to make it really simple for new players they could have slider values like in port res trade, which show casualty resource value used and what is left to make bank, which alters upon on your troop selections etc.  Or not even sliders at all, just something else at the place where you select your troop and it shows attack/def value, something there as well for res value/value needed to hit bank which fluctuates upon troop selection.

Some new players cant be bothered with spreadsheets,additional time consuming scrutiny is not what they want, so they won't have pinpoint success with persian gains whatever the system, they just want to bash the positions as quick as possible to start, with all required info present on screen for selecting strategy.

Any new changes plarium make are just a guise for more money-grabbing schemes. Every change comes down to less or lower quality rewards, or more carnage so revivals are needed, they are just repackaged into more tasks so it looks like extra rewards are available overall.  I'm sure plarium look at the stats and realise players are getting bored, but still their new games follow the exact same ideas.

so i tested this new system it works, but im not pleased with it abit, technically i have to build 2-3 weeks now troops to get payout and go in + otherwise i kill my entire army to get eq. or less army back... alltho its "the same" with this smaller payouts it prolonges ur agony simply due the fact of getting cr.ap troops all the time back and worst of it is that u dont spawn higher lvl positions to finish it off, so forinstance my highest is lvl 75 and im spawning all time 39-46 positions if u least increase getting positions of lvl close to your quest position least then payouts would be faster and ppl would still play mostly like before, if im hitting constantly positions and get lower then ones i did spawn i cannot get a good payout when i overbank so it just agonizes me by doing extraordinary mathematic, i thought this game should be about fun not going back to school 

i also tested the new system, 

my previous old unit that i lose during the new system change never been pay back, the following is the early loses during new system

340 agema cavalry

300 macedonia cavalry

1200 javeline

690 thuerephoros

i been hitting alot position and ended up losing unit even if the big reward appear, the following is the new result after the change

1300 javeline

150 psilos

189 cretan

670 thuerephoros

687 mounted peltast

reward me back with 210 agema and 1307 trojan thorakite, the payout is exactly what i lose after it change back to old system

so may i ask where is my old loses unit gone before the change?????????

have plarium eaten the old loses of my unit after changing the system,........by resetting back the bank to 0.......the previous loses is quiet alot and still i havent gotten them back.

TheElitePhantom said:

As a reminder, the Persian positions are completely optional. The experienced players are free to stop playing positions whenever they want. I'm sure the players who take the time to learn the new system will gladly occupy the vacant slots at the top of the rankings, as there is now significantly less competition. 

Have a good day.

And we responded by reminding you that drachma is completely optional as well. This is the reason why top players don't want to answer to you with our concerns. We are not just experienced players, were also a long time paying customers, its obvious that I have to remind you how this system works. No paying customers no game.

Have a nice day.