Abrasturi said:

Plarium you are killing the game; invested over 5m in units doing Persian positions and got back 1.5m about 30%. This is not fun anymore, not even with discount to purchase units. Not interested any more.

 seems to me like a way for Plarium to make even more money. don't like it

Today i had enough with this so call profit unit and resource, i have send out 200 macedonian and 100 agema cavalry and hit the weakest to this class position of L37/39/46

The l37 kill my 100 macedonia cavalry with 109 myrmidon and 27 cretan archer

-Total Loses 80%

The l39 kill my 100 macedonia and 30 agema with 139 spartan hoplite and 27 Peltast <----are you kidding me?

-Total Loses 70%

The l46 kill 70 agema + 109 myrmidon + 139 spartan hoplite (higher unit here is infantry 2nd is immortal) with 30 sariss and 7 trojan <---FREAKING STUPID

-Total Loses 95%

ROund up from the 3 position, 200 macedonian cavalry and 100 agema turn to 30 sariss+7trojan+27cretan+27Peltast

Total loses at 90%

COME ON, I KNOW YOU GONNA SAY HIT ANOTHER POSITION IT WILL REWARD YOU RARE REWARD OF 90% YOU LOSE.

COME ON YOU THINK EACH POSITION NEED 1-2 UNIT TO CLEAR? ARE YOU STUPID OR MAKING FOOL OUTTA US, WHERE TO FIND MORE ARMY TO CLEAR WHEN THERE IS 12 OFFENSIVE POSITION, WHICH GONNA ENSURE ME RARE REWARD, YOU TELL ME!!!

YOU TRY USE THE REWARD UNIT OF 30 SARISS + 27 CRETAN + 27 PELTAST ON ANY POSITION AT L35 to L59, THERE NO WAY THOSE FEW REWARD UNIT CAN CLEAR ANY 1 OF THEM!!!

i'M NOT BLAMING FOR THIS KIND OF CHANGE, BUT DEFINITELY IT THE WORSE AND THE MOST EPIC FAILED SYSTEM EVER....

Basileus Leonidas said:

I hit a dozen positions with only ridiculoulsy small to mediocre payouts. Not any big one, and I was half way to a 9 M bank payback when the new system started.

ThatBloke, let's clarify what do you imply by 'big payout'?

As I mentioned in my previous post, rewards are smaller, but constant. Before you had to wait and hit Positions for quite a long time until you get 1 decent payout, and now you receive smaller rewards, but much more often. In the end these smaller payouts are equal the same 'big reward' in the past (however take into consideration some changes in your tactics in hitting Positions after update).

Plus the fact you get bits and bobs from the positions you're grinding somewhat ruins all the investment system : you're not really sure if you're still building the bank or restarting all over and if you'll actually get the next payout based on the tiny previous one or not !

The bank was not reset in the update, you are still building the bank. I am glad to see Archons who succeeded and posted about it in the thread. I hope they will share more information about their experience with others here.

Still giving it a try... I've now hit the 16th position since the change, and I still get good cavalry and phalanx so it's not absolutely a waste, but I it's still inferiior to the investment.

Actually, the problem is it's difficult to know how the bank is building now, since we're repaid as we go.

Of course, maybe the bank is actually building up from what's missing (i.e. approximately 25%) so in this case we could consider it's just building 75% slower than before. In this case, I agree it would just be a matter of patience.

I've not stopped playing Persians, of course, but it's going to be a long way, especially since the lowest level I'm hitting are around 45 and I should gather enough to hit around levels 60+. Only the fact I'm not knowing where I'm going is refraining from doing so right now, but if we're just building the bank from the difference between investment and small payouts, then maybe we could still use different calculation formulae and know when to get the big payout in the end.

I understand the game was probably made with random adventure and role-playing feeling, so it wasn't intended to be a matter of math, but, well, it's a still a bit hard to play compltely blindfolded, especially when lots of time and real money are involved.

However, we're still playing Persians and are working on new formulae with the coalition, comparing our statistics.

I may have a remark, though : as it has been quoted above, the 30% troops not involved in the combat actually make each (failed) position longer to finish and to add to the bank. I'm not sure it was really necessary. Couldn't at least this be removed, please ? I mean, if it was a free bonus (for instance if Persians were fought using 100% of our troops insteand of 70%), it would have been great, but it actually behaves like if we had just sent less troops in the previous system (for both combat resolving and bank building), so it really doesn't bring anything (and can't be taken in account as an enhancement, as we really use only 70% of what we send, unless we can win at once.

Thank you for reading. :)

60% loss on your investment. There's no way to call that a good thing. Any wonder why they just had 75% off the healer cost? It just "buy drachmas!" scheme when this game already had too much focus on that. My active coalition pretty much just became inactive with the update. There will be nobody to buy drachmas when there is nobody playing the game.

bluext08 said:

 

 For those who complain about " no big rewards"

You are doing 1 bar missions.

Try do a lvl 70+ that you haven't touched prior to the change and let us know.

Most of the report that shown from this lunatic is final blow, and never shown how much they use to achieve to complete an position

it not even consider a BIG reward cos you already lose so much just to complete single position, don't make a fool outta us, if you wanna show, please show the full bar of an position and how much donkey unit you spend just to get this reward and how much you gain and lose.

at that last picture shown it only the 5% of it original army left, how much Defensive army you lose before getting this picture, you dare to show, no you cant because it more than it expected.

Im done with positions you cheats its all about the drac

hi all

public poll on the modified positions mechanics >>poll

bluext08 said:

TheElitePhantom said:

 The persian positions still operate under the bank/payout method of the old system, but you're constantly making small withdrawals. You have to subtract the value of the units you gain from the units you lose to calculate the actual deposit. Losing 400 mounted peltasts and gaining 200 back means the deposit consists of 200 mounted peltasts. Losing 200 again and gaining 100 back means the total deposit now consists of 300 mounted peltasts. You still have a ways to go in order to bank the 440 mounted peltasts for the next big payout, even though you're at 25% of your original strength. 

Now that you know this information, try playing positions again and come back with more experienced feedback. We'd love to hear it.

If you have any questions regarding the new algorithm for persian positions, post them in this thread and I'll get try to back to them. 

Edit: grammar

New system is working . Just tested and i get masive reward :) 

PS: Another test new masive reward . Is more easy i like it.

please define "massive"

what level did u do? what did u send? what is the "massive" reward you got...

paladin said:

You are doing 1 bar missions.

Try do a lvl 70+ that you haven't touched prior to the change and let us know.

It still shows big payouts can actually drop, which is still a relief.

It's intriguing he could get two of them in row, though.

I couldn't get any like that as I was only half way to paying back the bank when the system changed.

It's gonna a be a long way before getting anything, and grinding down positions without finishing them won't help much because only 70% of the troops sent are acutally used...

Maybe that's the point that should be removed, else getting partials could still be interesting, at least if we're sure the difference is used to raise the bank.

Unfortunately, the new system was released because people were whinning about not getting payouts. Because a few people were unable to calculate how much they earned previously and how much they had invested so far, we've all be crippled with a new system that gives something each time, just to please the crybabies... That's a bit sad.

bluext08 said:

" From now on, you can expect a guaranteed reward every time you clear a Persian Position, rather than the hit-or-miss system previously in place! While this means fewer giant rewards, it assures you'll never walk away from a Persian Position victorious but empty-handed. "

What i understand u still get giant rewards  , but when ??  bank/payout ??

a lot of players will left this game, we receive 30% and what about the rest? so much greed, to force us to put money inside, we will find another game!

I already give my info, i spend most of my best unit of phalanx and cavalry to complete an position and it reward me back with lower unit like light+heavy, instead with this ongoing, you actually exchange most of you're unit to lower unit and if the big reward appear, you added up still earn lower unit in the smaller reward even if you manage to get 90% back from the big reward but there is 40% of the 90% is actualy lower unit that you gain from various position you have clear.

lower unit that come in huge number added up not close to what you lose but there is increase in unit number and grain consumption happen.

The old method system is where you spend various type of unit and when there is big reward come it actually 90-110% of all strong unit, and now it only 40-50% strong unit from big reward and 30-40% of lower unit from various completing position.

Old system rare reward pay u back almost all you have loses during the previous position you spend, with this new system it totally change the unit you gonna get during the big reward.

A big reward of old system reward you back with Phalanx or cavalry and never pay you with Light and Heavy

In new system the guarantee pay you alot light and heavy, and decrease in the big reward unit

when there is a big reward of 1000 Mounted peltast and 200 agema, in this new system it only reward you 700mounted peltast and 120 agema, where is the 300 mounted peltast and 80 agema go?

it simple, from various attempt of position that reward you with random type of unit of various type, each time it pay you, they decrease the bank deposit unit and start stocking in new fallen unit amount, till the end when you get big reward you actually gotten 20-30% of lower unit from various complete and the final reward payout gonna be decrease significantly.

YES it still a fully payout but come with various lower unit along.

want to use them to weaken the position they return 30% of the number you send......almost toke you 4-6 time sending the same class just to weaken the bar.........Time added in already take out 10-14 minute just to ensure this unit send and kill every single persian till none return. actually it not even helping us to save time instead it increase our time just to weaken an position......

EASY LOGIC

"SKUNK SCENT THE GAME STINK"

i would recommend every1 to stay away from persians until plarium changes something, because it is only a waste of troops atm, u will loose, and u will loose badly. idk about lower levels, but at lvl 125 this new system will kill all your army and give u nothing in return, except a feeling that u have invested in the bank tons of troops, and at lvl 125 it starts from 10 m armies and goes up.

You're men only keep pilling up at the bank and with this guarantee reward being given, the bank never full and will keep eating you're army till it exploded with loses and finally you cant get them back even if there is big reward.

actually you already lose so much to gain so less.

Plarium do yourself a big favour, remove this kind of lousy and stupid system that you make at persians, we don't like it at all...stop drinking so much botox, it making you're crew getting numb.

if u had people that complain that never get anything from persians, why didnt you put resource pool bar on persians so ppl know when they will get payout (all senior players that know to play knew this even without that), im building now 2 milion in most expensive light heavy and phalax + chratage horses to prove that new system is crap if u wanted to help nubs that dont know to play the game and only think that they have to get and actually win offense and defense on persians why did you have to screw up every senior player u have by ruining system that actually worked ok, if u think ill hit with agemas and macedons to get payout heavy and light (graineaters) you must be joking, i see here some guys complaining that i know are killers on persians (100-125 positions) coz i know em in game and when they tell you this SAKS idk why u dont put a vote of having old system back or having this joke of a system...

put the vote about old system back/new system not the one with getting 30% of junk back lets see how it goes then!

TheElitePhantom said:

PrimeGuardian said:

Instead it turn into, how many you spend on that position it only return 30% as reward so how many time you do, it only 30% reward while the 70% is DEAD...and i mean DEAD that u cant eventually taken it back from what you lose.

Actually, you will eventually earn that 70% back.

when do we receive that 70% back ??? is a joke maybe! we lose all our army, in 4-6 positions with only 30% return, so, when and with what army do we play further, please? why is this so much greed, to force us to put money inside to buy, maybe, the rest of 70% ??? this is a bad dreams, is not fair from you, and a lot of players will left that so called "game"  shame! all game creators think only of own profit and destroy all fun in a game, nice option! 

Basileus Leonidas said:

Greetings all! 

I tried to provide you with more information on the changes, as  the update on Positions reward system may trigger a lot of questions (and I see it already).

1. Why did we decide to make these changes?

We have always received countless complaints from players claiming that "Positions weren’t working" or assuming that we’d changed the Positions payout system.

Some of our players thought that reward system was working incorrectly exclusively for them, as they would see huge rewards on screenshots shared on the Forums by other players, while receiving nothing (or only small rewards) themselves. One of the main problems was that players would end up losing most or all of their army before getting a reward.

This was a problem especially for new players who still hadn’t learned the intricacies of how Positions worked, and also for some of our veteran players, who were engaging higher-level Positions, where the gaps between payouts were significantly longer (but the rewards were bigger). So, we decided to alter the scheme to avoid this frustration.

Now, you will save some of your troops if you lose a battle against Xerxes. Sure, it’s not enough of an army to mount another attack right away, but it’s still better than losing after walking into a Persian ambush you weren’t prepared for!

2. Did my reward progression (in other words - Positions Bank) reset to zero?

No, Archons, all your results were not reset. You can continue hitting Positions and get the rewards you’ve been building up to.

3. Why do I get small rewards, despite numerous losses?

From now on, you get small rewards for every win. Gods feel that you deserve to get a prize for every victory. You worked hard to win a battle for the Position you should be rewarded for taking this challenge.

This doesn't mean that you won't also get those bigger rewards you used to get prior to the update. Those still happen – there’s just greater consistency now.

4. How do these frequent small rewards affect the overall reward system?

You'll need to hit more Positions in order to claim the big rewards you used to get. On the other hand, you will always receive bonus troops for a win.

5. Will we still get big, really big, rewards for Positions?

As we have added the rewards for every victory, the really big rewards will be rarer, but you can still get them if you keep fighting at the Positions.

>> Archons, be advised: changes to the rewards system were made with extreme care – our priority was to keep the overall rewards balance the same. <>

One more thing, every Archon has his / her own reward progression stage, so not all the advantages will immediately be obvious to everyone.

Give yourself some time to analyze the update.

The system is new, so you will need to commit some time and thought to it and recalibrate your strategy. This is a challenge that real Archons are faced with often!

If you still have any questions, feel free to leave them below.

we lose all our positions, no big reward at all, we take only 30% from our position, the question is, with what army do we play further, if my first remaining position is a level 80, and my last 125??? i must wait 3 more weeks to can defeat that first position, with, of course, no guarantee that i will have my big reward back??? bad system, believe me! bevore was bad days and good days, so, we stop at bad day and try tomorrow, maybe, but now, all are bad days? ok, we leave, if that is what you want!

Let me put this out there.

Most of the complaints on the new system... are exactly like the ones we get about the old system.

Some are answered by my earlier posts in the thread.

Few do not rely on exaggerations.

Almost none are written logically and clearly enough that I can forward a report directly to Plarium.

You guys keep booing away the people who learned the new system and want to help.

So, what do you guys want Plarium to hear? Give me your best shot.