This is what happen when getting Reward from spending So Much...actually it happen to me.

Dear Leonidas,

It a heart broken to let you know that this new system of Persian Position is killing us.

If can, please make it a profitable rather than spending so much just to earn so less.....the reward only the 30% of the total unit we spend on completing a position and there no way we profit or cover the loses during this process......

I'm losing so much men and getting so less....losing my appetite.

if we still get big reward after some time, and since we don't know when it will be, what if i get huge reward from lvl 10 position instead of for example lvl 60.

will my huge reward be lost by big % due to  resource caps at certain levels or bank will carry on?

or we wont get huge reward until we hit high enough position, which can actually pay out banked resources?

Alltho i understand the mechanic that theyve put in now, i tested it with a friend (coz im waay to high to go gamble if things arent verified) and he had payout before this change 135 macedons and couple of resources, after hitting 12+ positions in a row various lvls (min 30 -max 50) we never been able to get the actual ammount of offense strenght or resources back no matter what, in calculation we lost 120k offense power after the "big payout has happen" and basically big payout was junk units comparing that be4 u could allmost allways get horses for phalax+heavy+ light (now managed to get even mrymadons with combination of sindon pikes/golden shields and spartan promachoi) so sencerly what ur telling us that we actually benefit from this and what is the truth is completly different thing, there is no way in any calculation that u can go no more in any kind of + only -, least before you could build and invest and build and invest and again build and invest to get something out of it now when you get on lvl 47 position 17 agemas payout after u wacked god knows how many troops on it we should be happy about it? Allso since i had very big payout in agemas and mpelts right before update, now in calc. it will take me like a year to build up enough light heavy and phalax to get to new payout and im building the most expensive ones 24/7, coz each time ill get some random crappy units back which in end will eat up a nice payout i should get when i finish the cycle... its kinda a no go for me coz in equasion all players that are hitting persians seriously will have like massive losses to get 30% back and in end when payout happens they will not even have the actual offense power they had before not to mention to get in + is impossible, good thing is that u speeded up units so i gues we gonna start killing eachother now with all types of units not only horses that we used to get from persians before this update. If anyone ever gets a + or be square on persians after this update aka. unit power invested / final "bigger" payout please post here to convince me. thx and best of luck.

Honestly, the god favour us with this kind of every position with reward and rarer big reward during is breath taking...

there will be not enough army to hit so much position to get an rare reward when you manage to get them you actually have lose almost 10-30% of you're original army.

how many time you complete the position you end up losing army in the end, just what i did from level 35 till level 58 position.....all my elite reward unit from various event just tun into light+heavy instead they were phalanx.

even if i add up all the reward and left over def phalanx it not even near the number before sending them in.

650 thuere of 373k defensive after clearing 12 defensive position from l32 to l55 i end up having 260k various type from cretan+peltast+trojan+mounted peltast.....where is the rest of the 113k defensive go......when there no more def position left....even if i use the left over of this 260k defensive, i dont think i manage to clear 2morow position where it most start from l35+.....oh god, what have i done to deserve this misery.....

until now there no player here saying earn more than usual, all complain here and there especially me....my precious phalanx turn into mix juice army.......

Apparently, the kind of reward now depends directly from the level you hit, so don't play the lower ones, or play them with light infantry (you do get heavy out of them).

I've been finishing to pay the bank back and had some accidental finishes (with various small payouts), so I substracted them and went on paying back until I was done, then finished all that was pending.

The results are apparently random. In the end I had spent 20.5 millions ot get 17.8 millions worth of troops (mostly horses and some phalanx) + resources.

The balance isn't quite right, but it's not so horrific either... But you it's definitely unfair : you get an average payout of 3/4 of your investment.

I was grinding then finishing a dozen of positions from level 38 to 58, so it can be considered statistically accurate enough.

As I said, the level is important, but it's more a matter of levels range. After level 30 or so, you do always get horses + a few phalanx. The best payout I got was actually from a level 48 (266 Macedonians + 53 mounted Peltasts) !

There's also an abvious flaw in the "30% survivors" system : it happens only if you actually fail. If you win, you lose all (or lose all but 1 soldier, at least when you match forces, which is I've always done to maximize payouts).

Maybe it's not worth matching forces anymore in this case, since you always lose an equivalent amount as the Persians losses anyway if you overhwhelm them, but the other important point is : send less than necessary, lose the battle, get 30% surviviors and send them back. Chances are there's only 1 Dailamite left then, so you'll lose nothing and get the reward.

Doing so, it costs you 70% of the troops you would have lost finishing the position in one shot, which is kind of unbalanced if you ask me.

Those big prices composed only by high quality units were the only way to get a decent army, specially for players under lvl 65-70. Actually the payback will include units that you can already produce instead of losing lots of them to get a part of the prize in the same units.

In the new  format, you have to spend way too much time, resources, patience and bad mood to reach a big price, making the game much less fun. (unless you empty your pockets regularly, of course.)

Sincerely, you have killed one of the most appealing things of this game

This Persian change really stinks.  I've been tracking my losses like a wall street accountant and my loss pool was 90% built up before this change.  Now because novice players didn't spend time understanding the system (nor was the system truly explained in clarity mind you), Plarium decided to placate the misunderstood among us by making more difficult to get a good payout and apparently by all early tests, payout less than before.  I was supposed to get my partial payout after finishing the next highest quest, then the full payout afterwards.  What now?  Now we cannot know when the payout will come or how to manage losses.  It will just happen less.  Great.  I know it is hard developing customers on feature sets that are inherently complex but **** do not punish the veteran users of the product with a worse experience in the name of confusion.  Coach the misunderstood.  Put the old system back.

I see people have a big fetish for the huge rewards :D but if this works as explained, there are no changes really, except you get small bits and big rewards from the accumulated loss rather than nothing and the big rewards. As long as all gets in, gets in the loss pool and all given is taken out of that pool, nothing really changes

Previously, you had to be careful how you spent your previous reward to be sure by the time you spent it all, and along with whatever else troops you might have had, there is also the next reward and so on

Now, it is the same, except you get some troops back on each attempt, so gets a bit more dynamic. I don't really care if i get a big 5000 agemas or 10 smaller 100 agemas and a big 4000 in the end

Thus said...if the internal mechanics are the same and no other hidden changes

hello

You change the system but what there are losses before it? I lost in the 10 million powers and I planned to make a girl to go back up slowly towards big position to redo me, how I am going to get back my losses now? Before it it was not easy, now that is going to become impossible.
I would be willing some explanations if you know how to give them to me

If I'm understanding this right we're still somewhat using the old system with a new twist on it.

We will still get the 70% of our armies back that we've invested into the bank for the Persian positions but rather than waiting for the rewards to come to us all at once like they used to, we get on average 30% of our forces back after every battle as we continue to try and put in our investments of 70% for the big payouts. The 30% back after every battle then is just to keep us in the battle as you mentioned as we work our way up to the big payoff, it's just a longer, more drawn out process because of the 30% we're getting back after every battle.

I can understand having to answer the same questions thousands of times gets a bit old quickly but I can imagine your e-mails have been flooded since the introduction of this change with new questions and complaints. I did see one suggestion here that was a neat idea, adding something like an investment bar so that we're not having to find and use spreadsheets to keep tracks of things ourselves. Something else that may help is information like a wiki more readily available from you guys being that you guys have all the information available to ya's with just a few clicks of your mouse and some code to read through. I'm not saying you have access to the game files, Leonidas but your higher ups do, perhaps they could trickle some of their knowledge down to help form a wiki that coalitions and friends can send people to rather than hit and miss information gathered by other players so that they don't feel the need to have to ask the same questions over and over, they can just get a link and do a bit of reading.

As for the really big investments, why not just set a reasonable cap per level like we have max rewards, instead of having to invest 195 million resources, cap it at 10 million for rewards depending on the level and average amount it generally takes to complete that certain position?

Just my opinion.

I do appreciate y'alls concern for us but some things are a learning process, trial and error.

Dragoon said:

If I'm understanding this right we're still somewhat using the old system with a new twist on it.

We will still get the 70% of our armies back that we've invested into the bank for the Persian positions but rather than waiting for the rewards to come to us all at once like they used to, we get on average 30% of our forces back after every battle as we continue to try and put in our investments of 70% for the big payouts. The 30% back after every battle then is just to keep us in the battle as you mentioned as we work our way up to the big payoff, it's just a longer, more drawn out process because of the 30% we're getting back after every battle.

I can understand having to answer the same questions thousands of times gets a bit old quickly but I can imagine your e-mails have been flooded since the introduction of this change with new questions and complaints. I did see one suggestion here that was a neat idea, adding something like an investment bar so that we're not having to find and use spreadsheets to keep tracks of things ourselves. Something else that may help is information like a wiki more readily available from you guys being that you guys have all the information available to ya's with just a few clicks of your mouse and some code to read through. I'm not saying you have access to the game files, Leonidas but your higher ups do, perhaps they could trickle some of their knowledge down to help form a wiki that coalitions and friends can send people to rather than hit and miss information gathered by other players so that they don't feel the need to have to ask the same questions over and over, they can just get a link and do a bit of reading.

As for the really big investments, why not just set a reasonable cap per level like we have max rewards, instead of having to invest 195 million resources, cap it at 10 million for rewards depending on the level and average amount it generally takes to complete that certain position?

Just my opinion.

I do appreciate y'alls concern for us but some things are a learning process, trial and error.

 

 

Yes I understand, wiki helped a lot me and I had a good method to make the Persians.
Only my losses are before the new system, and I doubt that I am going to manage to be able to make the maintaining Persians, my position max is 111, my the smallest become bigger and bigger, if I do not affect a big earnings(gain) on the smallest I am going to have to produce for a long time, with the former system I shall have gone back up in some days

TheElitePhantom said:

 The persian positions still operate under the bank/payout method of the old system, but you're constantly making small withdrawals. You have to subtract the value of the units you gain from the units you lose to calculate the actual deposit. Losing 400 mounted peltasts and gaining 200 back means the deposit consists of 200 mounted peltasts. Losing 200 again and gaining 100 back means the total deposit now consists of 300 mounted peltasts. You still have a ways to go in order to bank the 440 mounted peltasts for the next big payout, even though you're at 25% of your original strength. 

Now that you know this information, try playing positions again and come back with more experienced feedback. We'd love to hear it.

If you have any questions regarding the new algorithm for persian positions, post them in this thread and I'll get try to back to them. 

Edit: grammar

New system is working . Just tested and i get masive reward :) 

PS: Another test new masive reward . Is more easy i like it.

game is ruined now and not worth playing. it would be best to put it back the way it was or i bet many will quit playing. it always paid out the old way but only when you met the bank and interest amout

Thing will change, same like the Multi event rather than story event that were only appear once every week.

This new position system is new and most of us didnt get what we call profitable reward, if only plarium could set higher the reward per position complete and rare reward during completing multi position then we won't be so heart broken losing so much unit from normal reward position.

hoping there will be slightly changes to the position, so we could enjoy the game on earning profitable unit from reward rather than losing them often and end up decrease in number of unit.

Those who experience this kind of loses should give out opinion here so that LEonidas could find a good solution to solve this kind of tragic.

And now, it seems, I have lost my status as an iron fisted general. Wave upon wave of my troops return home unsuccessful, from battles I sent them to win, or die in the attempt. Crassus had a solution for such a thing, but you'd have to look that one up on the internet. If I were the general (aren't I the general?), I would inform my armies that they should only return when they were victorious. I suppose that it was intended that I would happy that units returned from battle, perhaps I might even misconstrue them as winnings! I do not. Travel time may have been reduced, but set up time has been multiplied and lengthened, as I do contemplate what I am going to send, and why. Now, my thought is required again and again for the same task. In the end, we will master this system also, intended surely to dumb down the game to allow the lessor intellect the illusion of success. I liked it better when they just had to pay money to feel like they were winning.

Just to clarify.

All the resources in your bank did not change. Your losses from the old system still apply toward rewards in the new system.

When you fail a position, but you were close to completing it, 30% of your army will survive and come back. You can't abuse this. That 30% did not engage in combat at all. That means they did not inflict any casualties. The battle results are the same as if you had sent only 70% of that army.

For the people who aren't number crunchers, things worked out like this.

Old System

Big loss, big loss, big loss, big loss, big payout

                                                     ^At this point, you're close to 0% original strength and have 110% of the last payout banked.

New System

Small(er) loss (since you gain a percentage back immediately), small loss, small loss, small loss, small loss, small loss, small loss, small loss, big payout

Before the big payout you're close to ~0-10% original strength and have 110% of the last big payout banked, and it has to be actually banked.

A very important note: the overall rewards are the same. Ahem. The overall rewards are the same. You're just going to be playing a lot longer, which is good when it comes to position tournaments or getting value (e.g. combat experience, enjoyment) from your units. 

Another note, agreements benefit you a lot more. Under the old system, you had to lose 110% of your last payout no matter what. It didn't matter how strong they were. Under the new system, you still have to lose 110% of your last big payout to get another, but you can last a very long time without it. With maxed out agreements, good elixirs, and good army compositions, you can earn up to 75% of your army back on each position. A 40% boost to your units means you lose 40% less, but the payout remains the same. Just remember that you need to lose your army several times over to get a big payout.

I just had a payout of about 4mill worth of resources and paid back over 12 to 15 mill and all positions i finished never did give a payout whats with that.I should not have to put in 3 to 4 times the bank amount to get a payout and when i did it was nothing worth mentioning even though it was levels 40 and up

codyscott said:

I just had a payout of about 4mill worth of resources and paid back over 12 to 15 mill and all positions i finished never did give a payout whats with that.I should not have to put in 3 to 4 times the bank amount to get a payout and when i did it was nothing worth mentioning even though it was levels 40 and up

Was the 12 to 15 mill out of your own pocket or did they come from the units you got back?

I hit a dozen positions with only ridiculoulsy small to mediocre payouts. Not any big one, and I was half way to a 9 M bank payback when the new system started.

As I said above, in then end, I had thrown 20.5 M to get 17.8 M in various units and resources (that now drop much often, unfortunately).

What I can see now is you get 75% instead of 110%.

I'd be curious to know where it's supposedly the same than before...

Plus the fact you get bits and bobs from the positions you're grinding somewhat ruins all the investment system : you're not really sure if you're still building the bank or restarting all over and if you'll actually get the next payout based on the tiny previous one or not !

I mean, if each payout means the bank restarts all over, there's absolutely no possibility you get any big payout ever (that's simple logic) !