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Hydra clash - from a low level clan

Hydra clash - from a low level clan

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dthorne04Moderator
Oct 19, 2023, 19:1010/19/23
12/30/20
6215

A lot of this argument and similar ones I've seen, they boil down to why should anyone be rewarded for being able to do better in (more difficult) facets of the game - specifically Clash, in this instance - and I'm not so sure that should hold any weight. Once you start untying progression and rewards, what's the motivation to improve champions or comps ever? Clash is a bonus, while folks can hit Normal/Hard to their heart's content, get Mithrala and rack up Stoneskin/Protection/souls. I'm not blind to the pressure Clash puts on clans, much like CvC does but I don't think this means we need to just completely remove any need to build better teams for the higher difficulties. Not to mention that those lower clans that just hit 35m and clock out aren't going to get anything from Clash, realistically ever.

I think saying there's no early/mid/end game is a cop out in and of itself. Can it be a bit nebulous and difficult to define due to there being factors that aren't agreed upon? Sure. Does that mean those measuring sticks don't exist? No. Though I think too much weight is put on being at those measuring sticks from time to time, there are clear points in the game where it becomes clear you've advanced. 

Oct 19, 2023, 19:3010/19/23
12/19/19
6456
Daehawk Gaming

Sub-100s hitting NM hydra only requires the clan to have NM hydra unlocked. Not all modes are available for all the clans.  I could get 5M damage in NM easily and get that 4x points to get 20M Clash points for doing 3 rounds only. And I'm only lvl 64. I tested this with Hard to see what I could get with a team that was just setup to be Unkillable for 3 turns and be able to have AOE burn with a Enemy Max HP hitter it did 5M damage in 2 turns against Hard didn't kill any heads but did 5M damage and then died. NM they have even more hp so those HP based damage would give even more damage. Do the same in Brutal get another 5M damage boom another 15M points there got the 35M done.  You're not getting any chests from Hydra but at least you'll get the Hydra Clash chest if your clan is top 3. And you only spent 3-5minutes on the content using glass cannons.

As I have stated earlier. Most of the clans I see in Hydra clash only have Normal and Hard unlocked. If a clan Hydra NM unlocked sure a sub-100 hit NM if they get added to a clan that has it unlocked. Not every clan has teams of people that either used the broken Cadaver to unlock things or other broken methods that got changed later to unlock them all. Remember there are people that were posting in the Cadaver nerf discussion and changes threads that without that champion being broken their clan could no longer kill NM nor UNM Clan Boss. 

Perhaps they should get rid of all the point multiplers? Normal, Hard, Brutal, NM all give 1x points. No bonuses. This is how lower level clans play trying to get the 35M points. Instead of 5minutes a key 3 rounds each and get 35M points it takes over an hour a key just to get 20M after 200 turns. 

I don't think Arbiter (even I have Arbiter and I am only 129 days now. Got Arbiter around day 90) should be considered early mid-game nor dthorne's that Lydia is part of mid-game. Since those that I see level 100 that can't do 35M since only have Normal and Hard unlocked as a clan have both of these champions. So Lydia would then be "early game"? 

It is odd that so many mention early game, mid game, end game and there are so many that use it as a metric but that metric is undefined. It seems like more of a cop out answer that is just something people will throw out there as an excuse. 

A person could be less than 60 days into the game just hit 50 but are just lucky and got the right champions from RNG to do the content. So much of the content is that you need certain champions that do certain things. There are 813 different champions currently in game. There are more constantly getting added. I have multiple of the same legendaries and I have 3-5x of the same of some of the epics. There are still a ton of epics I don't have at all. There are posts on the reddit that there are people that have been playing for years that are still missing certain epics that just don't pull from the RNG. 

There is no early game, mid game, or late game. It is all "have you been lucky enough to pull X champions with X skill sets". And each of those are different based on each of the content in the game. You could destroy one content and then have nothing that has the right skill sets for another content which could be considered an easier difficulty than the one you demolish. As the pools continue to get diluted it will just become more difficult to get the right champs unless they just add champs with the same kits. 

Agree with much of what you say, except the copout is actually "that you need certain champions"

When I walked through 12 feet of snow as a kid.... lol.... all these champs did not exist :) we used rares lol


Oct 19, 2023, 19:5910/19/23
Oct 19, 2023, 21:19(edited)
06/13/23
168
dthorne04

A lot of this argument and similar ones I've seen, they boil down to why should anyone be rewarded for being able to do better in (more difficult) facets of the game - specifically Clash, in this instance - and I'm not so sure that should hold any weight. Once you start untying progression and rewards, what's the motivation to improve champions or comps ever? Clash is a bonus, while folks can hit Normal/Hard to their heart's content, get Mithrala and rack up Stoneskin/Protection/souls. I'm not blind to the pressure Clash puts on clans, much like CvC does but I don't think this means we need to just completely remove any need to build better teams for the higher difficulties. Not to mention that those lower clans that just hit 35m and clock out aren't going to get anything from Clash, realistically ever.

I think saying there's no early/mid/end game is a cop out in and of itself. Can it be a bit nebulous and difficult to define due to there being factors that aren't agreed upon? Sure. Does that mean those measuring sticks don't exist? No. Though I think too much weight is put on being at those measuring sticks from time to time, there are clear points in the game where it becomes clear you've advanced. 

"A lot of this argument ... completely remove any need to build better teams for the higher difficulties."

To this section what currently would push them to "push higher content". Let's look at my Hydra Clash from last one. My Clan got 2nd. Our clan did 165M (one of our 20M hitters didn't even bother last week she already has Mithrala and can't hit 35M) and the 1st place clan got 173M. 

The 1st place clan they had 1 person do 163M damage from 3 keys of Normal they did a 86M, 42M, and 35M all in normal. The rest of their clan members didn't do more than 2M damage each to Hydra. 

I did 28M Hard, 4.7M Hard, and 12M Normal. The team I used for Hard for the 28M points normally gets 30M+ in Normal last time I did it. I've updated it more though since last time it can probably do 40M+ in Normal or more. So there is potentially if I only did Normal didn't attempt hard we would have gotten 1st instead. So for me pushing teams and doing hard I am rewarded less than the person that just did 3 Normals.

The same thing happens in higher clans as well with the Cadaver teams when they were around. Do Normal with Cadaver one shot all the heads. For non-Enemy Max HP damage teams they will take less damage and be able to deal more damage by doing Normal and just keeping multiple heads dead. Sure they are building better teams but they aren't pushing higher content.  

"Not to mention that those lower clans that just hit 35m and clock out aren't going to get anything from Clash, realistically ever. "

Why would they not be rewarded? You are put up against people that have similar damage than you in Clash. This last Clash was finally the first one that we had that other clans we fought actually had people over 35M. Each of them only had a single person above 35M. My clan only has myself above 35M currently. If those in my clan that are in the mid-20M's got to 35M and then clicked out of damage after that they would most certainly always be getting rewarded from the chests. The highest clan we've fought has done that 173M from the last one. Most others don't get above 130M. 

Oct 19, 2023, 20:0610/19/23
06/13/23
168
Trips

Agree with much of what you say, except the copout is actually "that you need certain champions"

When I walked through 12 feet of snow as a kid.... lol.... all these champs did not exist :) we used rares lol


Build me a rare only Hydra Hard team and I will try it out lol. 

I know there are the Epic only challenges the content creators do. Thankfully there are Epics that are on par with or better than some legends. 

Oct 19, 2023, 23:3010/19/23
05/03/20
1861
Ratted

If it's 'end game' then fine, don't let clans into the clash who as a clan total can't hit 500,000,000 and if it's 'end game' then take the use one hydra key out of the quests, also don't use level as an opener to Hydra, use a set level on player power, it's the only game area you need 18 different champs to play so opening at a set level isn't the answer

You can decide when you have the resources to participate in hydra.  You can join a clan that does not priortize hydra.  

As for the, use a hydra key, its not a big deal.  You can use it even if you fail.  It is part of the learning curve.  

Oct 20, 2023, 19:0210/20/23
01/15/21
1190
evilized6666

The point thresholds for rewards are way too high imo.

Last week my brutal key was around 140 mil, that netter me 450 mil clash points. That is almost 5x the damage for the top chest in butal. Why do the rewards require excessive scores? It seems plarium tried to put the clash points just out of reach of certain thresholds, to of course get people to spend money to hit them.

This has always been a pretty afk grind game. Spening 50-80 minutes maualing a fight is counter productive to why myself and probably a good number have played for so long.

Clash points should be cut in half. Clash she be a 3v3 so each team gets rewards. Neither of these will happen cause just like CvC some players will just dump cash into the game over it. Sad.

Time is the big issue, i manualled 3 keys this week and it totalled nearly 4 hours for one mode, it is ridiculous

Plus the awful matchmaking means i will probably get no jewellry out of it in the end

Yes it has been designed with the mega whales in mind the top clans will be matched against each other and spend ridiculous amounts of money trying to win.

From a business point of view i see why they do it, but it isnt good for general gameplay

Oct 20, 2023, 19:0410/20/23
01/15/21
1190
Trips

I joined a non-cvc hydra focused clan.  I enjoy hydra and live :) so skipping most fusions and ignoring CvC keeps me from quiting :) Though I feel compelled to find time this evening to upgrade any artificat I can to do the stupid path and push towards wukong soul... lol

I am still bronze 1 in live, i will get round to playing it at some point,  but i work long hours, and i just become a grandparent- so time for yet another mode doesnt exist at the moment

Oct 20, 2023, 19:1210/20/23
06/25/20
6719

Personally, my metric for early/mid/late game is built around Doom Tower. Early game players are basically not there. Mid game players have cleared normal, and are progressing through hard. Late game players have hard on autofarm.

From there, there's of course gradients, but typically once you're able to farm DTH, you also have most of the rest of the content done.

As for Hydra Clash - it's steadily eating away at my desire to play this game at all. Every week, I dread looking at our clan score on Monday, because I know if we're at all close to being in the top-3, I'm going to get guilted into wasting a stupid amount of time.

harleQuinnModerator
Oct 20, 2023, 20:0910/20/23
02/24/19
7965
ClosedPoly

You can decide when you have the resources to participate in hydra.  You can join a clan that does not priortize hydra.  

As for the, use a hydra key, its not a big deal.  You can use it even if you fail.  It is part of the learning curve.  

Agreed. Well said and simply put, Poly.

harleQuinnModerator
Oct 20, 2023, 20:1210/20/23
02/24/19
7965
Daehawk Gaming

Build me a rare only Hydra Hard team and I will try it out lol. 

I know there are the Epic only challenges the content creators do. Thankfully there are Epics that are on par with or better than some legends. 

If someone wants to prove a point about a phone game to someone on a forum so badly that they are willing to go back to the pain of using all rares like we used to, they need help. lol

I do have some very rare dependant FW21 clears to show off from the early Golden 20s though. Those were the days.... :D

Oct 20, 2023, 20:1610/20/23
06/13/23
168
harleQuinn

If someone wants to prove a point about a phone game to someone on a forum so badly that they are willing to go back to the pain of using all rares like we used to, they need help. lol

I do have some very rare dependant FW21 clears to show off from the early Golden 20s though. Those were the days.... :D

So the thing about a full rare team that would work for Hydra Hard can actually be used in other places like Doom Tower. There are Rare Only secret rooms in the Doom Tower. If there is a team setup that can do Hyrda Hard with that being 4 bosses of 280 this team would also have potential for Doom Tower rather than the stun teams currently used for it of rares. 

harleQuinnModerator
Oct 20, 2023, 20:2310/20/23
02/24/19
7965
Daehawk Gaming

So the thing about a full rare team that would work for Hydra Hard can actually be used in other places like Doom Tower. There are Rare Only secret rooms in the Doom Tower. If there is a team setup that can do Hyrda Hard with that being 4 bosses of 280 this team would also have potential for Doom Tower rather than the stun teams currently used for it of rares. 

Since the rare rooms in doom tower require just spirit attack or just rare attack, etc.... there is no way to build an all around team sadly. The supports, although not great, can be pretty decent and you really need those for all rare teams in anything but stun life. You're just stuck with stun RNG.

Overall, finishing all the secret rooms in all three doom towers is tough, just now done it and my account is quite old and pretty strong.

The all rare hydra team is, like many things in the game, gonna require just insane gear to get your champs to the base stat requirements needed to survive Hydra. Basically, once you've got a Mycolith, one of the better rare revivers, provoker like Graybeard and the other components all at  closer to 300 speed, 350 accuracy and 350 resistance in your classic pairings of Guardian, Provoke and Cursed.... you're really gonna be set at least for Normal or Hard.

Oct 20, 2023, 22:2210/20/23
05/03/20
1861
harleQuinn

If someone wants to prove a point about a phone game to someone on a forum so badly that they are willing to go back to the pain of using all rares like we used to, they need help. lol

I do have some very rare dependant FW21 clears to show off from the early Golden 20s though. Those were the days.... :D

I still have some rares in FW.  If it works, why change it?

harleQuinnModerator
Oct 21, 2023, 00:2310/21/23
02/24/19
7965
ClosedPoly

I still have some rares in FW.  If it works, why change it?

I haven't. Athel, my starter, is still in my FW21 Sacred Order team, for example. :)

Oct 21, 2023, 01:3510/21/23
06/25/20
6719
harleQuinn

Since the rare rooms in doom tower require just spirit attack or just rare attack, etc.... there is no way to build an all around team sadly. The supports, although not great, can be pretty decent and you really need those for all rare teams in anything but stun life. You're just stuck with stun RNG.

Overall, finishing all the secret rooms in all three doom towers is tough, just now done it and my account is quite old and pretty strong.

The all rare hydra team is, like many things in the game, gonna require just insane gear to get your champs to the base stat requirements needed to survive Hydra. Basically, once you've got a Mycolith, one of the better rare revivers, provoker like Graybeard and the other components all at  closer to 300 speed, 350 accuracy and 350 resistance in your classic pairings of Guardian, Provoke and Cursed.... you're really gonna be set at least for Normal or Hard.

Y'know, I might just give this a try, for the hell of it. My quick research has yielded this team:

  • Graybeard (Provoke)
  • Judge (Debuffs)
  • Apoth (SPD up, TM up, Healing)
  • Doomscreech (DEF up, TM up)
  • Kurzad Deepheart (ACC up, damage)
  • Coldheart (ACC down, damage)
Oct 21, 2023, 03:0710/21/23
05/03/20
1861
kramaswamy.kr

Y'know, I might just give this a try, for the hell of it. My quick research has yielded this team:

  • Graybeard (Provoke)
  • Judge (Debuffs)
  • Apoth (SPD up, TM up, Healing)
  • Doomscreech (DEF up, TM up)
  • Kurzad Deepheart (ACC up, damage)
  • Coldheart (ACC down, damage)

Let us know how it works.  Coldheart is so strong counting her as a rare is almost unfair.  

No reviver?  You are an optimist.  

Oct 21, 2023, 14:5710/21/23
12/19/19
6456
Daehawk Gaming

Build me a rare only Hydra Hard team and I will try it out lol. 

I know there are the Epic only challenges the content creators do. Thankfully there are Epics that are on par with or better than some legends. 

I'm too lazy to put gear on my recent S tier pulls that I actually want to use now.  Marichka and Harima (alt account) still naked for weeks and counting😆 so I will not indulge this exercise despite needing to pick champs out of a hat to level for training anyway....


Oct 21, 2023, 21:3210/21/23
05/03/20
1861
Trips

I'm too lazy to put gear on my recent S tier pulls that I actually want to use now.  Marichka and Harima (alt account) still naked for weeks and counting😆 so I will not indulge this exercise despite needing to pick champs out of a hat to level for training anyway....


I have the over 2025 for your champs to be fully geared.  This is the perfect game for procrastination.  I have been using that as my strategy for 2 years.  Its almost working.  

Oct 23, 2023, 10:1310/23/23
02/28/22
270
ClosedPoly

You can decide when you have the resources to participate in hydra.  You can join a clan that does not priortize hydra.  

As for the, use a hydra key, its not a big deal.  You can use it even if you fail.  It is part of the learning curve.  

Having a quest where 'you can use it even if you fail' is not productive, theres a huge percentage of the player base that probably can't yet do Hydra and get the quest, and you think that's ok? wow!

harleQuinnModerator
Oct 23, 2023, 17:0110/23/23
02/24/19
7965
Trips

I'm too lazy to put gear on my recent S tier pulls that I actually want to use now.  Marichka and Harima (alt account) still naked for weeks and counting😆 so I will not indulge this exercise despite needing to pick champs out of a hat to level for training anyway....


Hahaha. Trips! You and @Angwil need to build your champs!! Actually, maybe Angwil still has them in his portal ........