The new positions seem to be designed so that people with large armies and high postions lose so many troops they are forced to buy new ones. All the big players are going to leave if the havent already left. This is not a way to treat the best players of the game but I guess you just want random casual players and dont care about retaining the high level players. Your startegy does not make economic sense and you are destroying this game.  

The worst part of all this is that we didnt get any warning, many people had many troops banked that are now lost because like myself they are no longer doing positions with the new system. To continue with the new system I would loose even more. If we would have been informed of the change people would of cleared thier banks before the change. I feel you have stolen about 4 mil worth of troops from me in the so called bank because I will not play these new persians and loose eveything like many high level players have done.

I cant raid King Leo so I guess the only way to go to war here is to keep the wallet closed until this is reversed, or eventually quit if it takes to long.

This new improve system still running at the most horrible payout ever.

i have lost alot of my army previously, and now after using clearing about 5-7 more position i found out that my old loses never been repay me back making me losing another 1.1m defensive army and 600k offensive to this few completed position.

my old loses is 2.4m and 600k offensive after added with the new clear position with no big reward my loses has reach 3.5m defensive and 1.2m offensive.

the previous big reward of 277 agema actually gonna lose back because it only 30% of my previous old loses unit, now after sending the army to clear some of the position i have lose 3x the value of the previous reward of 277 agema.Those moderator showing how profit they are all lier and big fat loser, they wanna support plarium for this scam so they could get pay by drachma and keep their freaking army rebuild while we lose so many and they ignore us and showing some lunatic big payout instead at the beggining they have lose more than they earn and say earning 110% from their loses, shame on you moderator.

stop making fools outta us, people are quitting this game and you guys still know how to "throw a dead cat to a party", if you dont understand this meaning go check the internet for answer.

Dear Moderator, stop making fool outta us by showing the big reward of your's, we all know it has high loses at the beggining and the reward only not even consider the total loses you have lose, stop joking around with us, we know better than you moderator the scammer

this few weeks pass, im been talking about my loses around and around, but you guys keep ignoring and believe those moderator about the reward.

if i'm not losing any army to this new system, you really think i'm that free to repeating what i lose during the persian position again and again, you really think i'm that free to make up some stupid lunatic story to get attention.

honestly i'm just a normal player that love historical of ancient warfare, i never start getting this emo rampage after this new persian position changes.

not because i wanna make up something, but instead it happening, now i'm losing about 3.5m defensive and 1.2m offensive making me left 40% of my total army at acropolis, it a whole face palm situation, hope you guys know how desperated situation i'm facing......losing so much and yet there is no big reward to cover my total loses.

Today persian event i have tested out by clearing 19 position that given me about 9990 persian point using my left over 40% unit.

The result is bad, real freaking bad.....

4.3m defensive and 900k offensive of the 40% at acropolis after clearing 19 position the final conclusion is 4.2m defensive and 600k offensive with 2 time big reward of 399 spartan promachos and 1900 thuerephoros while losing 1200 mounted peltast and 230 agema cavalry, as you can see i have lose 100k defensive and 300k offensive from the result, this is how plarium keep our unit down slowly forcing you to lose 10-30% every time you play persians, if you guys still nut crack, just test it yourself and don't blame me not telling you.

my previous loses was 3.5m defensive and 1.2m offensive, how much or how many i clear, my previous loses never reward back, it just reward me what i spend today and never reward me back what i loses previously.\

good work plarium, you guys really reset my previous loses back to 0 so each day i clear an position you only repay me back what i lose today and delete the previous or yesterday loses.

this game has gone horrible wrong after the new system, good luck on earning quitter rather than dollar, i'm not spending any time on this crappy paddy lousy game.

here is a magic word for the ancient sparta>

Every men must die, but die like this is stupid.

Dear forumers, please be aware that I gave my answer regarding update in this topic.

This System ist just stupid. You get a Big Payout but it dindt cover the loses...

Well, remember my last payout ?

Since then, i've been going on hitting the lowest positions I was offered when I had quests about them.

Then I got my second surpise payout on August 18th : 518 Promachoi + 104 Thuerophoroi out of a level 48 position.

Then I decided to play more seriously this time.

I used that last payout as my new bank, and for two full weeks, I totally stopped to play Persians at all and built around 3,000 infantry units (Hoplites, Myrmidons and Spartan Hoplites), as without them I would have been condemned to sacrifice the troops I actually wanted to keep.

Then I Sent 1/3 of them, along with Promachoi, to the 3 topmost positions I was offered.

In my case, it was a level 62 (quest one), 61 and 60, in order.

I was intending to hit the level 60 without finishing it and conclude with another level,60 to get the payout without risking to underbank in case of a partial payout, but it was mostly defended with cavalry, so my bunch of infantry and phalanx, though representing only 80% of the Persian force, litterally busted them, 

There I got lucky, as the big payout came immediately : 481 Agemas + 87 Mounted Peltasts, worth 12.3 millions, for only 6 millions invested in all since the previous payout.

I suppose I had actually been overbanking from the previous ones, as I has never had such a tremendous rate.

Anyway, now I have a 12.4 millions (with the resources that were part of the payout) bank to pay back, and honestly, it's still working as before, and I know lots of other people who are still getting great results as well.

So only one thing has changed from the original system : now you get partial payouts every time you fisnish a position.

The solution is then pretty obvious : DO NOT FINISH POSITIONS.

Build your bank from unfinished positions, then go on to overbank at least 30%.

The reason is, after you've paid the bank back, you should trigger the big payout any moment, but remember there have never been 100% chances to get it immediately. Sometimes it could take 2 or 3 trials before it dropped, and this has not changed.

However, what has changed is you'll get partial payouts for each failed trial, so if you don't overbank, the partials may decrease your bank down to under the sweet spot.

That's why you just have to overbank a lot, so you're sure to get your real payout byt finishing a few positions. To know where you are, just substract the partial payouts values from your bank, it's as simple as that. If you're using the spreadsheet, just type negative quantities.

Trust me, it works all the time.

I agree it can take longer than before, but it still works, and the partial payouts are still adding to your army anyway.

As far as my discussions with Plarium are getting, I've been confirmed they've been addressing complaints from lazy people whinning about not getting immediate results, and unfortunately, they were so many to complain they answerd with this new method.

There's no plan to get back for now, so please, adapt and try the method i'm suggesting. It works great for me and other players, so there's no reason why it wouldn't work great for you as well.

The real concern is for people hitting vey high levels. Hitting one or two additional positions may become impossible to achieve and results are too uncertain.

This is an almost unsoluble problem so far, as you obviously can't get additional bunches of the necessary 120 millions worth troops just to overbank for safety.

I have just one question, fighting PP:s in the long term!

Example:

You fight 200 PP:s in a row and winning all time

Your quest PP stays at level 90

You mix fighting offensive and defensive PP:s, even though your main goal is fighting one of them.

You always Attack/Defend with the most suitable troop type

Well, fighting higher levels cost even more "investments", before an eventually Big payout.

@ Longhorn, if you check your post with  2 post above from the other moderator ThatBloke, pay - out doesn't depend on lvl anymore, because he had his big pay - out on a lvl 48 position.

My conclusion with all the other posts; we gonna end up like it was before the change. A lot of fancy stories about the positions, but none that really can explain how it works exactly. And ones and a while also the message that persian positions are an option in the game. If you are able to build all the troops by yourself, then of course the persians are an option. If you can't build them (what is exactly the probleme ingame) then you need the persians. 

POSITIONS PERSIAN NOT WORK AS BEFORE UPDATE ALL KNOW.

NOW IS MORE LIKE A LOTTERY, NO MATTER HOW YOU CALCULATE LOSSES AND REWARDS

FOR GETTING BETTER NOT INCREASE YOUR LEVEL POSITIONS OF PERSIAN

AND DO NOT SPEND MONEY WITH PLARIUM

Well, I've been trying both methods :

- Blindlessly hitting positions for the win, rookie style.

Above levels 60+, I got so many good partial payouts it was impossible to pay the bank back (this was actually done after getting my latest big payout, see below)...

Between levels 45-55, partials payouts are more mediocre, but in the end, I did pay the bank back and got a 6 millions payout in Promachoi and Thorakitai.

- Then knowing my bank amount at last (I was a bit lost after the change :p), I built infantry for two weeks and hit the 3 topmost positions i had (level 62 + two  level 61) WITHOUT FINISHING THEM.

Well, actually, that's what I had planned, but the 2nd level 61 was defended by cavalry and my infantry slaughtered them, though I had only sent 80% of the theorical force.

To my surprise, the big payout came immedaitely (I knew the bank was paid back, but everybody knows you never have 100% chance the payout drops at the first trial - there I was lucky).

It was a 12.5 millions payout in Agemas and mounted Peltasts.

Then I finishd the remnaing positions so I levelled up with next level to hit being 63, and got partials, but th were so huge they were superior to what I had invested in them.

These ones I know are random, but the big payout was a pleasant surprise, as I didn't even have time to overbank as planned, so i really got 12.5 M for 6 M invested.

However, my previous payout was modest, so i probably had overbanked previously.

Anyway, it works perfectly as usual.

You have two tactical choices to make :

- Either start positions and build your bank as usual. To achieve this you MUST ABSOLUTELY FINISH NONE OF THEM, or you'll decrease your bank. If it happens, just substract your partial payout value from your current bank and go on.

You must overbank by at least 1 or 2 positions so you can plan on hitting up to 2 or 3 finising positions to get the payout without underbanking, as, as reminded above, you never get 100% chances to get the big payout out of the first trial (and it has ALWAYS been like this, only you didn't get anything, so you couldn't risk to underbank).

- Either playing for tournaments (like right now) and finish positions as they come.

This will give you only partials, unless you've finally reached the sweet spot (it can happen, that's how i got the previous big payout before my last one).

However, positions under level 40 give very few tournament points (they even give only one point up to level 20 or so), so you should really try to reach at least the 50+ levels range fast enough).

Awarded points grow exponentially with the level, so try to reach an area that still allows you to hit enough posiions with what you can produce in one week if you want to play every weekly tournament. Last time, I chosed not to play Persians, and kept on building fodder for two full weeks without hitting any.

Of course, the best strategy is still to grind positions down during the week, then finish hem off during tournaments, as usual.

However, since we don't have to care anymore about grain and every position is only 1 mn away, it doesn't matter anymore if you just keep all your troops until the tournament starts.

So please stop whinning.

Those damn partial payouts have been introduced precisely because thousandths of people were whinning all day long to Plarium support about not getting immediate payout for every position they hit, until the staff got mad and added those stupid partial payouts.

If everybody would stop whinning and learn how to adapt, maybe we would get less silly changes ! have you even thought about that ? :(

Thatbloke - I know what you mean by building up the bank (not winning the PP:s) to hit high levels PP:s when you are at the value since the last big payout. And I also know that it sometimes will not give you the Big one, but its near so its just hitting again.

But, showing us results from a few PP:s doesnt tell us how it works in the long term. I got a lot of big payouts in the new reward system so I know they are still there.....

Old reward system was: A payout = Kill your army at PP:s until you´re at aprox the same level as the payout you got before and that would bring you a new payout.... Easy to understand and with good strategy could bring you even more army in the long term.

New reward system: Wait until you get the Big payout and then make the calcs from that one. You can do this, either by killing your army at PP:s without winning, or win every time and wait until you´re at the same value as the last Big payout (takes longer though).

Question is, anyway of new reward system or not, in the long term you should at least not lose any of your army if ending with a big payout!

So again!

You fight 200 PP:s in a row and wins all the time

You don´t advance in the levels, still holding level 90 as highest PP and only attack/defend levels below that.

You mix fighting both off and def PP:s, even though you want the big reward from one of them.

You always attack/defend with the most suitable troop type

Now, you attack the 200th PP at level 86, which brings you a big reward as you´ve planned. Will that gain you more than you have invested or at least break even?

The question must be very easy for you admins and mods to answer!

What has changed is partial payouts are now systematic.

What's important to understand is they don't modify the reward objective. They only reduce the amount you've paid back already. You must consider them as withdrawals from a mortgage account, that only delay the moment you've paid it back.

The next big payout witll still be based on your previous big payout as usual, with the usual modifiers : what you've managed to overbank before hitting the finishing position, the usual random fluctuation and the  level of the finishing position (that can still reduce the payout if it's too low), plus the fact the big payout has always a chance to drop at any time (it's not 0% chances), leading to a premature big payout from a reduced bank, as it has always been possible.

If your new big payout is low because of one of these reasons, the difference is still kept to be added to a next big payout. The bank is actually never reset, only a new sweet spot is calculated from your last big payout.

I don't think you really earn more than you've invested in the end. It has never been designed like this. You may sometimes get more and sometimes get less, but statistically on a large number of attempts, it should be balanced.

Persians are more a way to swap poor troops for better ones, with a balanced overall value expressed in resources.

It just saves you a very long time if you would have to build them yourself, and offer beginners a way to get troops they can't build themselves yet.

That's the reason why you should never invest only valuable troops. You may of course have to on higher levels, but you should be building light and heavy infantry all the time and always use them on Persians to limit the amount of valuable troops you send there.

My view on PPs.....

We don't gains more than we invested...

But I consider this as a place for converting Low end troops to High end ones...

For the converting job to be done, as like everythings, we have to give some resource value to PPs..

Thats why we sees a loss percentage on overall statics...

With the amount of tournaments both PvP and PP:s now a days, I think the converting strategy fighting PP:s with lights and heavies is useless. Better to use Light and Heavy in PvP tournament to convert to Phalanx:s as tournament reward, and Phalanx and Cavs in PP tournament to get Phalanxes in reward.

But, that is of cource if you dont lose your army in the long term fighting PP:s!

So again... I havnt seen an answer to my question yet! It must be really simple to answer!? That is if you know how the in game mechanics works out. 

Hmmm... Infantry in PVP ? You'd need quite lots of them. i'm only using cavalry and phalanx. Of course, not having to care for grain has changed things, but the time to build a decent army... I can build only about 3 000 light and heavy infantry in a week, with both queues producing... Building millions of them would take too long.

Thelittlephantom - If you take a look in my post earlier, you´ll see how I play them...... Answer that, instead of just dodging the question!

If the in game calcs works as you have been telling us, wouldnt a big payout as last fight give you at least a break even??

Thatbloke - Yes! to just send as cannon fodder to get the max tournament reward! throw your 3000/300 light/heavies and you´ll convert them to Phalanx.   

I know that the old reward system worked! you could do 200 PP:s and at least break even in the long term. You could even plan to get the reward at the last PP:s and by that have a surplus (loan from the bank) until you start fighting PP:S again.

I have just one question, fighting PP:s in the long term!

Example:

You fight 200 PP:s in a row and winning all time

Your quest PP stays at level 90

You mix fighting offensive and defensive PP:s, even though your main goal is fighting one of them.

You always Attack/Defend with the most suitable troop type

So the question is. If I hit the last one (200) at level 86 and it will bring me a (the) big reward. Will that gain me more than I have invested, or at least break even ?