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Sigh, arena is broken again

Sigh, arena is broken again

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Oct 25, 2021, 15:1510/25/21
10/15/20
2041
simple_max2006

Not really. I am currently playing with 2 accounts. One is 681k strong - matched against opps from 649k to 893k power. Other is 184k string - matched against 174k to 212k power.

Makes perfect sense.

No, it doesn't make any sense at all. The way player power is calculated makes it absolutely useless as filter for arena fights. Player power is mostly determined by the champion power of the champs in your account. If you unequip some champs that you don't use actually and that are in your vault, the player power will be reduced, leading to easier arena fights. What has unequipping champs in your vault to do with your strength in arena? Do drivers in the 24h of Le Mans get into a lower racing tier if they unequip tuning stuff from their privat car what is waiting in their garage at home during the race?

Oct 25, 2021, 15:2910/25/21
04/02/19
200
Skadi

No, it doesn't make any sense at all. The way player power is calculated makes it absolutely useless as filter for arena fights. Player power is mostly determined by the champion power of the champs in your account. If you unequip some champs that you don't use actually and that are in your vault, the player power will be reduced, leading to easier arena fights. What has unequipping champs in your vault to do with your strength in arena? Do drivers in the 24h of Le Mans get into a lower racing tier if they unequip tuning stuff from their privat car what is waiting in their garage at home during the race?

Why would it make perfect sense?  Why shouldn't someone in a tier just get ten random opponents from that tier? No matching no power or any 'system'

I'm in G4, my player power is just over 5M - I have a lot in the vault with gear on, if I removed all the gear (if I had the money) I could get it down a lot, as it is I usually get 7 - 10 Arbiter teams every time and I know that's because of their ridiculous system

Oct 25, 2021, 15:3310/25/21
10/15/20
2041
forrestleigh

Why would it make perfect sense?  Why shouldn't someone in a tier just get ten random opponents from that tier? No matching no power or any 'system'

I'm in G4, my player power is just over 5M - I have a lot in the vault with gear on, if I removed all the gear (if I had the money) I could get it down a lot, as it is I usually get 7 - 10 Arbiter teams every time and I know that's because of their ridiculous system

In Gold they don't use this matchmaking from player power. It affects only Bronze and Silver.

I'm in Gold 4 as well, and it's easy cheesy to stay there. I don't have any ambitions for Platinum, so arena is no problem for me. But it is a problem for developed accounts in Silver 4.

Oct 25, 2021, 17:2710/25/21
05/13/19
2326
Ghostjohn2001

Talking out your backside? LOL.......So level 50 players should be getting matched with level 80-100 players on every page? And I'm not talking 1 or 2 lvl 80-100 player teams either. 

These are obviously loaded with BOT teams on nearly every page. Why? Why is their a single BOT team in Arena at all....if it's so legit?

And don't give me that "You don't know how to build a team" garbage.....that's a standard line of BS.

I'm not saying I can't beat them.....I'm saying this shouldn't be happening....period. 

A supposed level 50 player, has a team with team power at 80....that plays like it has team power of 300?

Yeah right.


Ladies  &  Gentlemen

I  am  back  here  again  Preaching  the  Arena  Gospel.


I  come  before  you  all  today  to  respond to  Brother  GhostJohn2021.

-  Brother  GhostJohn  is  inexperience  in  Arena.

-  Bother  GhostJohn  worries  about  Player  Levels  in  Arena.

-  Brother  GhostJohn  worries  about  Team  Power  in  Arena.

-  Brother  GhostJohn  suffers  from  Gold  Envy.


These  issues  are  psychological chains  that  GhostJohn  is  putting  on  himself.

He  holding  himself back  from  reaching  his  true  potiental.


I  am  reminded  by  the  Scripture  in  the  Great  Book.

The  Scripture was  written  by  the  Great  Raid  Philosopher Jimbo.

                   "It's  not  the  Size  of  the  Arena  Team  in  the  Fight  that  matters.  What  matters  is  the  Size  of  the  Fight  in  the  Arena  Team."


I  have  seen  Little  David  Topple  Big  Old  Goliath.

I  have  seen  level  50  Player  wipe  the  Floor  with  level  100  Player  with  only  1  hand.

I  have  seen  a  50k  Power  Player  stomp  a  250k  Power  Player  with  out  wearing  shoes.


Once,  you  see  the  truth.

You  can  break  out  of  your  self  made  chains.

There  is  nothing  you  can't  do.


And  the  way  to  win  is  always  the  same

-  Team  work

-  Effort

-  Passion


When  you  have  those  3  things,  Their  is  no  defense  in  the  entire  game  which  can  stop  you.




Oct 25, 2021, 18:1810/25/21
02/14/21
505
Player J

Ladies  &  Gentlemen

I  am  back  here  again  Preaching  the  Arena  Gospel.


I  come  before  you  all  today  to  respond to  Brother  GhostJohn2021.

-  Brother  GhostJohn  is  inexperience  in  Arena.

-  Bother  GhostJohn  worries  about  Player  Levels  in  Arena.

-  Brother  GhostJohn  worries  about  Team  Power  in  Arena.

-  Brother  GhostJohn  suffers  from  Gold  Envy.


These  issues  are  psychological chains  that  GhostJohn  is  putting  on  himself.

He  holding  himself back  from  reaching  his  true  potiental.


I  am  reminded  by  the  Scripture  in  the  Great  Book.

The  Scripture was  written  by  the  Great  Raid  Philosopher Jimbo.

                   "It's  not  the  Size  of  the  Arena  Team  in  the  Fight  that  matters.  What  matters  is  the  Size  of  the  Fight  in  the  Arena  Team."


I  have  seen  Little  David  Topple  Big  Old  Goliath.

I  have  seen  level  50  Player  wipe  the  Floor  with  level  100  Player  with  only  1  hand.

I  have  seen  a  50k  Power  Player  stomp  a  250k  Power  Player  with  out  wearing  shoes.


Once,  you  see  the  truth.

You  can  break  out  of  your  self  made  chains.

There  is  nothing  you  can't  do.


And  the  way  to  win  is  always  the  same

-  Team  work

-  Effort

-  Passion


When  you  have  those  3  things,  Their  is  no  defense  in  the  entire  game  which  can  stop  you.




ROFLOL

informative as always.😀

Oct 28, 2021, 15:5010/28/21
01/27/21
293
Rufus Shinra

Hmm Interesting, I started a f2p account about a month ago, been in silver 3 for the past couple of weeks or so and I have yet to see teams that belong there, if anything the majority of the teams do look like proper beginner teams with people either not grasping the fundamentals, or still working on gear. 

So which tiers are we talking about precisely when it comes to broken matchmaking ?  My experience, albeit annecdotal is based on 30 days of daily play ( mostly ) and quite a bit of arena, so I'm tempted to say Bronze all teh way to silver III are fine...

Silver 2-4 would be good examples.  If you haven't gotten a speed lead who will beat everybody fairly consistently, you start to stagnate.  Your account power keeps getting higher though if you don't throw out every single new character you get if they don't help you in arena.  Since someone without a functioning understanding of PvP is in charge of matchmaking, they tie account power to the matchups you see regardless of your account's PvP capabilities.  It is a horrendous decision.  There was a brief respite from the terrible game design but it appears to be over.  I'm just glad my main account doesn't have to deal with it to much, but I see a bot "not bot" page maybe once a week in Gold 4 and I use almost every free refresh that I get.  The non-speed leads are slowly being filtered out of gold (because most in gold have zero concern about any non-plat non-speed lead team... opposing team power under 300k without a speed lead or Hege?  easy win).  This was the sitution we faced earlier when all of gold was a sea of Arbiters that people were expected to fight past to get Arbiter.  It is just terrible, terrible, terrible design.

Triple the tiers and add them all above Gold 4.  People can compete in a spread out spectrum with your ranking based on your actual results and account progression will not be cripled for newer or casual players.

Oct 28, 2021, 15:5510/28/21
04/10/20
37

at the current stage of the game Gold is top tier and platinum is whales and insane lucky people with their builds. don't expect to just hit gold because its a lower tier in other games.

Oct 28, 2021, 16:0810/28/21
01/27/21
293
AyeThatsOD

at the current stage of the game Gold is top tier and platinum is whales and insane lucky people with their builds. don't expect to just hit gold because its a lower tier in other games.

The point is that the game designers expected you to hit gold but the current game managers have allowed endgame accounts to overwhelm gold 4.  That wasn't the design intended by those who initially designed the progress missions and the great hall.  The current game managers are failing the game designers by not updating the system by adding more tiers.  They could fix this by making all the rewards from arena matches be the same in all tiers and changing the progress missions to Bronze 4.  Or they could triple the tiers above the current Gold 4 tier.  Either way it would stop the bottleneck at the point that the original game designers assumed everyone WOULD be able to progress to.

Oct 28, 2021, 16:2010/28/21
01/15/21
1183
simple_max2006

Not really. I am currently playing with 2 accounts. One is 681k strong - matched against opps from 649k to 893k power. Other is 184k string - matched against 174k to 212k power.

Makes perfect sense.

I dont understand the idea that pvp should be 'fair' at all.

Weak pvp teams should be in the lower tiers, stronger pvp teams should be in the higher tiers.

Matchmaking by anything other than wins / losses makes a mockery of the whole idea of a tier system.

You end up with ridiculous situations where people try to game it by eating champs, and where high player power accounts (because they have lots of champs) in bronze or silver find themselves matched with siphi/double rotos type teams.

If people feel that there should be more tiers, i agree

If people think there should be other ways to improve great hall i also agree

But the idea that we should fiddle matchmaking by anything other than wins/losses is totally flawed.

Oct 28, 2021, 16:3310/28/21
04/10/20
37
Quintinar

The point is that the game designers expected you to hit gold but the current game managers have allowed endgame accounts to overwhelm gold 4.  That wasn't the design intended by those who initially designed the progress missions and the great hall.  The current game managers are failing the game designers by not updating the system by adding more tiers.  They could fix this by making all the rewards from arena matches be the same in all tiers and changing the progress missions to Bronze 4.  Or they could triple the tiers above the current Gold 4 tier.  Either way it would stop the bottleneck at the point that the original game designers assumed everyone WOULD be able to progress to.

now why would they do this? the game is supposed to be challenging not holding your hand every step of the way. be creative make PVP Teams 

Oct 28, 2021, 16:5210/28/21
06/20/19
2181

Just anecdotal, but last two weeks it seems the 'easy' or 'bot' pages have been about 1 in 6 or 1 in 10, but the last few days they've been almost every other page.  (G4)

Oct 28, 2021, 16:5810/28/21
06/20/19
2181
Quintinar

The point is that the game designers expected you to hit gold but the current game managers have allowed endgame accounts to overwhelm gold 4.  That wasn't the design intended by those who initially designed the progress missions and the great hall.  The current game managers are failing the game designers by not updating the system by adding more tiers.  They could fix this by making all the rewards from arena matches be the same in all tiers and changing the progress missions to Bronze 4.  Or they could triple the tiers above the current Gold 4 tier.  Either way it would stop the bottleneck at the point that the original game designers assumed everyone WOULD be able to progress to.

I'm not sure how you know what the designers expected?  Not sure how you know what the 'design' 'intended?'  Please be more explicit!  Oh, and for god's sake don't use the word 'obvious.'

Nov 11, 2021, 18:3011/11/21
01/27/21
293
Rufus Shinra

Hmm Interesting, I started a f2p account about a month ago, been in silver 3 for the past couple of weeks or so and I have yet to see teams that belong there, if anything the majority of the teams do look like proper beginner teams with people either not grasping the fundamentals, or still working on gear. 

So which tiers are we talking about precisely when it comes to broken matchmaking ?  My experience, albeit annecdotal is based on 30 days of daily play ( mostly ) and quite a bit of arena, so I'm tempted to say Bronze all teh way to silver III are fine...

If you don't get good arena champions (pure luck) or good speed gear (also luck), your account power will get stronger as you get better gear for your dungeon champions and for your faction war champions.  Your account power will get stronger as you get more champs.  So unless you only focus on the arena and feed every single other champ you get and don't gear anyone for faction wars, your account power  will raise at a similar rate to the small upgrades you make on your arena team.  Due to the absolutely horrendous decision to tie matchmaking to account power instead of adding more tiers above Gold 4 and tying matchmaking to actual arena resulsts, you will get a little bit stronger in the arena but won't make any headway if you have been improving the rest of your account.  It is why it is easy to shoot up to silver 2, 3, 4 early game and then tread water endlessly.

Nov 11, 2021, 18:3311/11/21
01/27/21
293
evilized6666

If you're in g4 for a year there is no excuse to not have made a lot of great hall upgrades, get arbiter, and aquire many decent pieces of divine speed and cruel gear.

This post is bs

I was really pissed prior to the bots as early/mid game players like myself at the time really were being screwed in arena facing nothing but arbiter/Lyis 300+speed teams in silver. At the time the only speed I had was high khatun lol.

With the addition of the bots I took advantage to get my arbiter, upgrade my great hall, as well as my account advancing from playing.

I don't know what lower tiers look like as now I have no problem staying in g4(at least for the time being). All I know is the bottom of g4 is very easy right now. I doubt we are seeing what was going on last year with s2 refreshes being 10 arbiter teams. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, and if that is the case arena is broken.

Most of the people I see posting about arena being broken are people that do not grasp the concept of just running simple speed nuke teams that from everything I see will take you into g4 right now. 

Absolutely not true.  My main account (f2p started in late January) had exactly the same trajectory you mentioned.  I have no issues staying in gold 4 on that account because a lot of people in gold are foolish enough to have non-spead lead teams which you can nuke into the ground unless it is truly a plat-level team and even sometimes then.  I posted this because I started a second team during Chofly's doom tower challenge and the problem that we faced is back.

Nov 11, 2021, 18:3811/11/21
01/27/21
293
Angwil

I'm not sure how you know what the designers expected?  Not sure how you know what the 'design' 'intended?'  Please be more explicit!  Oh, and for god's sake don't use the word 'obvious.'

Have you ever read the progress missions?  We can start at the beginning, progress missions are designed to help a player progress in a game (any game, Plarium didn't design the concept).  So the idea is that a progress mission should lead you through the game at the rate that the designers intended.  This is true in every single game which has progress missions which is why I said it was obvious.  If you've never played another game that had progress missions though, perhaps it was less obvious to you and I apologize for assuming you had more experience with this sort of thing.

Nov 11, 2021, 19:1511/11/21
11/16/20
1161
Quintinar

Absolutely not true.  My main account (f2p started in late January) had exactly the same trajectory you mentioned.  I have no issues staying in gold 4 on that account because a lot of people in gold are foolish enough to have non-spead lead teams which you can nuke into the ground unless it is truly a plat-level team and even sometimes then.  I posted this because I started a second team during Chofly's doom tower challenge and the problem that we faced is back.

Please post some screenshots of silver tier refreshes.