If you take too much randomness out of the game, then there's no way that free-players can ever compete with those who pay.

If we absolutely know for sure that if we spend this certain amount of money to progress and make our teams powerful, then whales will always win.

1.6 million silver to go from 12-15

Victory March said:

If you take too much randomness out of the game, then there's no way that free-players can ever compete with those who pay.

If we absolutely know for sure that if we spend this certain amount of money to progress and make our teams powerful, then whales will always win.

NOTE:  I'm not against spending money on games.  But if the game is changed so that the amount of one spends always equals Victory, then free-players will eventually figure out that they'll never be able to compete no matter how well they play.  And then the player base will begin to shrink dramatically.  To the point where you'll just Whale vs Whale, Orca vs Humpback.

did you even read my post? isn't there already ENOUGH rng in upgrading artefacts? Why would fixed silver per upgrade help whales? it's still a shitshow of rng for every stat or what is upgraded and so on and so forth. Please read my post again and then think About what you said.

It actually helps F2P Players way more than whales, as whales don't care About silver, but f2p have to take care on what to spend the available Energy far more carefully --- and thus by allowing them to plan better help them use the Energy on what's important --- and not only on farming silver in hopes of having enough. I really don't get your Point of why it would make the game easier for those who either buy silver straight out or use Energy Refills in masses without care compared to those who have to Budget every Energy they use. Your reasoning here really doesn't make sense to me.

See the poster above. That's not THIS uncommon but happens quite more often than you'd think. 1m should be the absolute Limit for 4 lvls of item-Upgrades and the total Costs for one item 1-16 should not exceed 1.5 or 2m in total (with most of that in 8+ lvl range, so that low-lvl Players and new ones at least are capable of getting to 8+ easy and 12 with some work while the "bigest part" would be 12-16).

Daering said:

You all should check latest videos on Salt, Stew, Darth and others about artefacts and how Plarium deal with them (and how you can deal acording to that knowledge). Things are more interesting than how they look on the surface. 

I saw it. But I didn't want to bring it up as it's borderline abuse of game-mechanics / exploiting of a game-feature in a way not intended and depending on the standpoint of the Company could lead to banned accounts. Also the only reason I won't start using this "feature".

Valdys said:

Yeah, I agree with this.

Lady, I missed you in this part of the Forum, but I feel like someone took over your account !!! oO ? You. Agree. With. Something. I. posted.

this cannot be real *lol* ;) 

Victory March said:

I understand that it can be frustrating when RNG doesn't go our way.  I think a good solution would be a new Auxiliary class of Champions.  Auxiliary Champions would have non-combat benefits, abilities, and chances to perform certain functions.  If we obtained an Enchanter, he or she could increase our chances of upgrading Artifacts.  As well as increase our drop rate for Champions if we take them along in Campaign Battles. 

wth? so you would introduce more RNG (or the Option to purchase said rng I guess) instead of just making even a fraction of the System fair for everyone?

you just state "it's unfair for F2P" but don't respond to my Reply to that. you state other Things but never really care if someone answers it. The only Thing you say is "it would be TOO easy with fixed upgrade Prices/numbers" and "just get us another rng-factor to remove one rng factor Maybe" (which, contradicting to what you said earlier where you were afraid it would Benefit only whales would actually only Benefit whales and hinder f2p Players).

I get that you don't see the reason behind why this would be good. I just don't get why you wouldn't be interested in discussing it. Or working on a solution that would Benefit all? I mean, there are so many RNG factors which Benefit whales the most. This one here would help all Players, especially F2P Players A LOT and not hurt any whale or make his Benefits for spending Money any less beneficial for him.

I mean, if you want to Keep it HARDER just increase the numbers?! More Levels or just total Price for 1-16 = 1.5 // 2 // 3 Million credits. Done. Still easy to calculate for, everyone has to pay the same Price (and not some lucky ppl get 5 16 items for 3 mil while others pay 10 for it as their luck is Always at the lower end ---- and no one could Claim Plarium is tweaking the numbers to the lower side on Purpose), everyone gets the same stuff out of it and STILL everyone has the same RNG in upgrading items (which substat is upgraded by how much - already 2x rng in one :D - ? what is unlocked on all None-legendary items, etc etc).

But at least participate in the conversation instead of just saying "this is dumb" or "this is bad for f2p --- but wait, I've got an even better idea which is even worse for f2p's but great because I had it !!!" (Talking About your Special hero)

gothikguardian said:

Victory March said:

I understand that it can be frustrating when RNG doesn't go our way.  I think a good solution would be a new Auxiliary class of Champions.  Auxiliary Champions would have non-combat benefits, abilities, and chances to perform certain functions.  If we obtained an Enchanter, he or she could increase our chances of upgrading Artifacts.  As well as increase our drop rate for Champions if we take them along in Campaign Battles. 

wth? so you would introduce more RNG (or the Option to purchase said rng I guess) instead of just making even a fraction of the System fair for everyone?

you just state "it's unfair for F2P" but don't respond to my Reply to that. you state other Things but never really care if someone answers it. The only Thing you say is "it would be TOO easy with fixed upgrade Prices/numbers" and "just get us another rng-factor to remove one rng factor Maybe" (which, contradicting to what you said earlier where you were afraid it would Benefit only whales would actually only Benefit whales and hinder f2p Players).

I get that you don't see the reason behind why this would be good. I just don't get why you wouldn't be interested in discussing it. Or working on a solution that would Benefit all? I mean, there are so many RNG factors which Benefit whales the most. This one here would help all Players, especially F2P Players A LOT and not hurt any whale or make his Benefits for spending Money any less beneficial for him.

I mean, if you want to Keep it HARDER just increase the numbers?! More Levels or just total Price for 1-16 = 1.5 // 2 // 3 Million credits. Done. Still easy to calculate for, everyone has to pay the same Price (and not some lucky ppl get 5 16 items for 3 mil while others pay 10 for it as their luck is Always at the lower end ---- and no one could Claim Plarium is tweaking the numbers to the lower side on Purpose), everyone gets the same stuff out of it and STILL everyone has the same RNG in upgrading items (which substat is upgraded by how much - already 2x rng in one :D - ? what is unlocked on all None-legendary items, etc etc).

But at least participate in the conversation instead of just saying "this is dumb" or "this is bad for f2p --- but wait, I've got an even better idea which is even worse for f2p's but great because I had it !!!" (Talking About your Special hero)

So, tell me again, what do you think is a fair flat fee to upgrade an Artifact from level 1-16.  What is it worth in game terms?

Victory March said:

So, tell me again, what do you think is a fair flat fee to upgrade an Artifact from level 1-16.  What is it worth in game terms?

Also, does it really make sense that it's the same price to upgrade a rank 1 piece of gear as a rank 6?  If there's going to be a set price, shouldn't it be more expensive to upgrade a rank 6 than it is a rank 1 or a rank 3, etc?

please don't tell me you're just hung up on the word "fixed Price for lvl upgrade" ….. Right?

You do get, that even Right now the Upgrades differ from 1 to 6 star and from lvl 1-2 to lvl 15-16. Right? And that shouldn't Change. Just the rng of how much you pay should be changed by having a fixed Price which would be for each lvl-up depending on which lvl you are Talking About and which star-Rating the item has. Just the "will it upgrade or will you Need 10/20/30 times" should be removed.

Of Course upgrading a 1-star from lvl 1 to 2 is cheaper than a 6-star from 15 to 16! And of Course it wouldn't be the 32k credits for a 5-star from 15 to 16 but more like 50/60/100k to move a 5-star from 15 to 16 but it would still be easier and fairer for everyone, as the Price is FIXED and no matter who you are and what time on which char you try to upgrade you know you'll pay the same Price as everyone else for every item of the same Quality and item-lvl who tries to upgrade it.

THAT is the meaning of fixed Price. Increase the cost starting at lvl 8 for each Quality-lvl and lvl-up but remove the RNG factor from upgrading resulting in a "total amount to be payed", which would be a FIXED cost-factor which is the SAME for EVERYONE.

Victory March said:

So, tell me again, what do you think is a fair flat fee to upgrade an Artifact from level 1-16.  What is it worth in game terms?

Also, does it really make sense that it's the same price to upgrade a rank 1 piece of gear as a rank 6?  If there's going to be a set price, shouldn't it be more expensive to upgrade a rank 6 than it is a rank 1 or a rank 3, etc?

please don't tell me you're just hung up on the word "fixed Price for lvl upgrade" ….. Right?

You do get, that even Right now the Upgrades differ from 1 to 6 star and from lvl 1-2 to lvl 15-16. Right? And that shouldn't Change. Just the rng of how much you pay should be changed by having a fixed Price which would be for each lvl-up depending on which lvl you are Talking About and which star-Rating the item has. Just the "will it upgrade or will you Need 10/20/30 times" should be removed.

Of Course upgrading a 1-star from lvl 1 to 2 is cheaper than a 6-star from 15 to 16! And of Course it wouldn't be the 32k credits for a 5-star from 15 to 16 but more like 50/60/100k to move a 5-star from 15 to 16 but it would still be easier and fairer for everyone, as the Price is FIXED and no matter who you are and what time on which char you try to upgrade you know you'll pay the same Price as everyone else for every item of the same Quality and item-lvl who tries to upgrade it.

THAT is the meaning of fixed Price. Increase the cost starting at lvl 8 for each Quality-lvl and lvl-up but remove the RNG factor from upgrading resulting in a "total amount to be payed", which would be a FIXED cost-factor which is the SAME for EVERYONE.

How much should it be? Very good Question. but the total upgrade cost for a 5-star from LvL 1 to Lvl 16 should be somewhere between 500k and 750k (I'd say around 500k would be fair) and a 6-star between 750k and 1 Million. As 6-star are the bread and butter it could also go up to 1.5 Million or so. The only Thing which should still be acchievable for everyone should be lvl 1-8 on every item (even 6-star) and lvl 12 on 5-star items (rather easy) while on 6-star the Costs can start to rise from lvl 9 already (and should be an exponential increase for lvl 13/14/15/16 )

Victory March said:

Okay, you can dispense with the attitude.  I'm not trying to troll you or anything.  But, anyway, the price range you're talking about does seem fair.  I could live with that. 

I'm sorry About the attitude. I thought we were arguing About fundamental parts of RNG based "hope it Upgrades" versus "fixed Price Points for Upgrades" and didn't get that you seem to have thought that it's fixed for everything across the board --- in which light you're Right that it would have made the System WAY too easy. Of Course it Needs to differ depending on the lvl and the Quality of the item :D …

I just got frustrated with the part that we completely misunderstood each other and argued back and for About something which could have been solved this easy ^^. Mostely I got frustrated with myself by not seeing what your Point actually was because I didn't explain it well enough where I Think the System should go. If I'd have done a better Job in the beginning we could have saved ourself some precious time ^^. So sorry About the attitude, this also was more against me, myself and I than against you :).