If you search 'in which player to use relentless' everyone will say that it is worth only to the champions that grants extra turns. This is a huge nerf for the set and these champions.

If you wanted to break the Rotos meta in arena, why you didn't just nerf his passive or his combo with Siphi?

Please, talk with the team and let them know the frustration. There are many people like me, spamming on the release note's comments.

Ah come on. Dont come with the bug excuse again.

From the player perspective the nerf of the relentess set is design change - not a bug.

Yes, thank you for writing that.
Rotos is not an OP legendary anywhere else except the arena. If you want to nerf his arena, nerf his passive or his combo with Siphi!
drone said:

Ah come on. Dont come with the bug excuse again.

From the player perspective the nerf of the relentess set is design change - not a bug.

I aswell cant help to suspect it is intented as a nerf (justified or not) for rotos. Problem is it nerfed all other champions aswell with the grant extra turn, that werent overpowered.

Using relentless on rotos: it means that every turn you have two seperate rolls as always, if either proc you get an extra turn but they both cant proc together, therefore limiting the turn stack(from 2+ to 1 extra turn(s) per turn) but not the effectiveness of the rolls for an extra turn.

There are many live chats complaining about this.

Valdys said:

They won't nerf him.

haha they did, everyone know that relentless is almost always used on champions that grant extra turns. and rotos is widely discussed to be used with relentless for best results. Nerfing a set that is almost always used on Rotos is nerfing Rotos, beacuse that set is there with a reason.

Valdys said:

They won't nerf him.

haha they did, everyone know that relentless is almost always used on champions that grant extra turns. and rotos is widely discussed to be used with relentless for best results. Nerfing a set that is almost always used on Rotos is nerfing Rotos, beacuse that set is there with a reason.

Pardon me for calling you out on a lie. Now undo this nonsence.

There are many live chats complaining about this.

Lets asume Athel uses her a3, 100% to get an extra turn, how is your tooltip is going to help her more than champions who doesn't grant extra turns? This is your own text. Please explain, the chat's cannot figure this one out and I will be happy to let everyone rest assure that this was indeed a bug and not a nerf.

I am cool with any kind of nerf in arena.

Personal: I invested to him for CB (use whatever the game throws at you). His damage was okay. Now they nerfed his CB capability. Now I have no books for Rha'zin, now me and many people similar with me have their account destroyed (a 60 level account with many things completed but with 0 books). Arena and the whale wars are the last thing that I care about. Paying for energy and shard is enough. Not everyone can pay for legendary books and their number is very limited. I invested 9 to Rotos and 4 to Longbeard that I use solely to boost Rotos' damage.

Not personal: Let's ignore this for a second. They are in denial about this being a nerf, calling it bugfix and an exploit. They think that their customers have IQ below 0 and treating them with lies and total disrespect.

Cool, if that wasn't a Rotos nerf, then boost his damage to CB and dungeons and make his numbers even? A 6% increase damage in bosses or whatever he lost, would work out. (Rotos and everyone else who was solely build with relentless, like 3-5 champions in total)

duco said:

Valdys said:

They won't nerf him.

haha they did, everyone know that relentless is almost always used on champions that grant extra turns. and rotos is widely discussed to be used with relentless for best results. Nerfing a set that is almost always used on Rotos is nerfing Rotos, beacuse that set is there with a reason.

Pardon me for calling you out on a lie. Now undo this nonsence.

Relentless set can give you three turns in a row sometimes.  Combining that with a Champion who has extra turn ability does sound at little crazy.  How do you defend against a Champion that attacks you 4x in a row?

Victory March said:

duco said:

Valdys said:

They won't nerf him.

haha they did, everyone know that relentless is almost always used on champions that grant extra turns. and rotos is widely discussed to be used with relentless for best results. Nerfing a set that is almost always used on Rotos is nerfing Rotos, beacuse that set is there with a reason.

Pardon me for calling you out on a lie. Now undo this nonsence.

Relentless set can give you three turns in a row sometimes.  Combining that with a Champion who has extra turn ability does sound at little crazy.  How do you defend against a Champion that attacks you 4x in a row?

Many of those champions still prefer speed set as going first is more essential then an extra turn. Also 4 turns in a row is extremely lucky, you might also get no extra turn from this set. According to their description the change of getting 3 -4 turns in a row is already significantly reduced as each additional proc gives the next proc -45% change of occuring.

They could also just nerf it a little so that extra turns from skills count towards extra turns from relentless. If you get from both the set and the skill extra turn instead of 9,9% chance you get the 5.5% chance to get extra turn until your chain end or you get mroe extra turn to decrease the chance further.

I am cool with any kind of nerf in arena.

Personal: I invested to him for CB (use whatever the game throws at you). His damage was okay. Now they nerfed his CB capability. Now I have no books for Rha'zin, now me and many people similar with me have their account destroyed (a 60 level account with many things completed but with 0 books). Arena and the whale wars are the last thing that I care about.

Not personal: Let's ignore this for a second. They are in denial about this being a nerf, calling it bugfix and an exploit. They think that their customers have IQ below 0 and treating them with lies and total disrespect.

Cool, if that wasn't a Rotos nerf, then boost his damage to CB and dungeons and make his numbers even? (Rotos and everyone else who was solely build with relentless, like 3-5 champions in total)

duco said:

Valdys said:

They won't nerf him.

haha they did, everyone know that relentless is almost always used on champions that grant extra turns. and rotos is widely discussed to be used with relentless for best results. Nerfing a set that is almost always used on Rotos is nerfing Rotos, beacuse that set is there with a reason.

Pardon me for calling you out on a lie. Now undo this nonsence.

Relentless set can give you three turns in a row sometimes.  Combining that with a Champion who has extra turn ability does sound at little crazy.  How do you defend against a Champion that attacks you 4x in a row?

kiil4lol said:

cs101092 said:

I am cool with any kind of nerf in arena.

Personal: I invested to him for CB (use whatever the game throws at you). His damage was okay. Now they nerfed his CB capability. Now I have no books for Rha'zin, now me and many people similar with me have their account destroyed (a 60 level account with many things completed but with 0 books). Arena and the whale wars are the last thing that I care about.

Not personal: Let's ignore this for a second. They are in denial about this being a nerf, calling it bugfix and an exploit. They think that their customers have IQ below 0 and treating them with lies and total disrespect.

Cool, if that wasn't a Rotos nerf, then boost his damage to CB and dungeons and make his numbers even? (Rotos and everyone else who was solely build with relentless, like 3-5 champions in total)

duco said:

Valdys said:

They won't nerf him.

haha they did, everyone know that relentless is almost always used on champions that grant extra turns. and rotos is widely discussed to be used with relentless for best results. Nerfing a set that is almost always used on Rotos is nerfing Rotos, beacuse that set is there with a reason.

Pardon me for calling you out on a lie. Now undo this nonsence.

Relentless set can give you three turns in a row sometimes.  Combining that with a Champion who has extra turn ability does sound at little crazy.  How do you defend against a Champion that attacks you 4x in a row?

Yes I have the same problem as you, My cb dmg dropped by this a lot and i don't have a team counter attack champion. It is like they only want one strategy to beat CB in this game. The arena nerf is okay, but then just nerf relentless only for arena. Add it to the description: "We understand that getting extra turns on top of extra turns is fun, but in the arena this artifact set can't give you an extra turn when a characters skill already gives an extra turn, as it is a negative experience to recieve in which you can't really do a thing."

Actually, I'm a new player, and I don't remember ever facing Rotos in the Arena.  But do you really need the ability to attack so many times in a row in Campaign Battles? 

Victory March said:

Actually, I'm a new player, and I don't remember ever facing Rotos in the Arena.  But do you really need the ability to attack so many times in a row in Campaign Battles? 

Which faction is Rotos in btw?

He is an undead horde.

In campaign or fw or dungeon, champions that attack all enemies are stronger as it is easier and faster to clear the waves. They also gain the benefit that stun, taunt and sleep sets are extremely good on them. Rotos has great single target damage on par with a good poisoner for bosses if he can take his extra turns and is lucky enough to land the defends down debuff, which is inconsistent and is advised to have another champion that also does it too. He can stand against the waves but he brings nothing to the team except damage while not needing that much protection. The extra attacks against waves are pretty crucial.

For example another champion hordin or relic keeper, require to kill the target to get an extra turn on their a1. which is a great basic attack. using relentless you sacrifce 40 c.dmg (+5 from masteries from support tree) and some substats because getting top notch relentless gear is harder then getting top notch crit rate/ c.dmg or savage gear. The alternatives boosts damage which increases the chance of the sure proc of an extra turn from their basic attack. Those champions aren't widely used, because they aren't that great. single target and no utility to the team. Rotos is almost the same except he deals enough damage to be considered good and his extra turn is on his big damage skill.

The big problem is that it is not fun to get multiple turn against you in pvp (if i may call arena that way). Rotos is good in the arena for his big damage block revive and 1 extra turn. People can live with that, but then getting even more extra turns feels bad. In the other parts of the games the extra turns are actually the reason why he is good. Without it he drops in usability. The arena fix was needed (for rotos), but I don't like the impact on other champions or other parts of the game. It now feels like a meme set, while it should be a set people want to fight for in tournaments.

I think you can imagine to win those tournaments you have to spent a lot of gems for refils which you first have to hoards. With that energy spent I could have had 2 6 star champions ascended with full masteries. (that being if they first where 4 or 5 star to be clear). I think you can already imagine the impact of 2 complete 6 star champions. it is quite big.

Victory March said:

Actually, I'm a new player, and I don't remember ever facing Rotos in the Arena.  But do you really need the ability to attack so many times in a row in Campaign Battles? 

Which faction is Rotos in btw?

He is an undead horde.

In campaign or fw or dungeon, champions that attack all enemies are stronger as it is easier and faster to clear the waves. They also gain the benefit that stun, taunt and sleep sets are extremely good on them. Rotos has great single target damage on par with a good poisoner for bosses if he can take his extra turns and is lucky enough to land the defends down debuff, which is inconsistent and is advised to have another champion that also does it too. He can stand against the waves but he brings nothing to the team except damage while not needing that much protection. The extra attacks against waves are pretty crucial.

For example another champion hordin or relic keeper, require to kill the target to get an extra turn on their a1. which is a great basic attack. using relentless you sacrifce 40 c.dmg (+5 from masteries from support tree) and some substats because getting top notch relentless gear is harder then getting top notch crit rate/ c.dmg or savage gear. The alternatives boosts damage which increases the chance of the sure proc of an extra turn from their basic attack. Those champions aren't widely used, because they aren't that great. single target and no utility to the team. Rotos is almost the same except he deals enough damage to be considered good and his extra turn is on his big damage skill.

The big problem is that it is not fun to get multiple turn against you in pvp (if i may call arena that way). Rotos is good in the arena for his big damage block revive and 1 extra turn. People can live with that, but then getting even more extra turns feels bad. In the other parts of the games the extra turns are actually the reason why he is good. Without it he drops in usability. The arena fix was needed (for rotos), but I don't like the impact on other champions or other parts of the game. It now feels like a meme set, while it should be a set people want to fight for in tournaments.

I think you can imagine to win those tournaments you have to spent a lot of gems for refils which you first have to hoards. With that energy spent I could have had 2 6 star champions ascended with full masteries. (that being if they first where 4 or 5 star to be clear). I think you can already imagine the impact of 2 complete 6 star champions. it is quite big.

Valdys said:

Using relentless on rotos: it means that every turn you have two seperate rolls as always, if either proc you get an extra turn but they both cant proc together, therefore limiting the turn stack(from 2+ to 1 extra turn(s) per turn) but not the effectiveness of the rolls for an extra turn.

Read this again.

You will still grant extra turns and Rotos is still op. Basically, in short, you can't stack your turns using relentless and a champ skill/passive, only one can proc in a turn.

Victory March said:

People wouldn't complain about Rotos if they had him.  I'm pretty sure.

Rotos is plainly out of balance.  If people who have him were being honest, and not just keeping their mouth shut because they enjoy the advantage, they would say the same.  You only have to look at the platinum teams to see that he's on almost EVERY TEAM.  It's not just because he's a snazzy dresser.

Someone above said "just counter him".  How is that done exactly?  I'll use an example in my arena queue right now: 

Dutchess Lilutu
Rotos
Madame Serris
Tormin the Cold

What is your counter team to this that wins 75% of the time?  If you're against an AI, and able to select the team, you should be the favorite if your gear is on par.  Most of the time, this Rotos support cast is enough to delay things until he annihilates you.  Can't just burst him down because first he can't take more than 50% in a hit (and gets an extra turn if he does).  Need to target Lilutu to prevent the resurrect.  If you have any buffs on, Tormin's wreaking havoc freezing your team.  If he gets even ONE opening, Rotos can pop off and kill 2 or 3 of your team members, and most of the time you can't resurrect them.

The point isn't that teams with him can't be beaten:

I took down this team with Prince Kymar, Madame Serris, Raglin and Yannica.  The problem is that he requires devoting a lot more resources to managing than any other champion right now.  With the right team around him, and gear being equal, he will crush you no matter who you put together on a team.  He's out of balance enough to give a strong edge.

BTW, that was my third attempt at taking that team down.  Prior to that I tried things like taunts, stuns and turn meter manipulation to no avail.

holcombjosh1 said:

Victory March said:

People wouldn't complain about Rotos if they had him.  I'm pretty sure.

Rotos is plainly out of balance.  If people who have him were being honest, and not just keeping their mouth shut because they enjoy the advantage, they would say the same.  You only have to look at the platinum teams to see that he's on almost EVERY TEAM.  It's not just because he's a snazzy dresser.

Someone above said "just counter him".  How is that done exactly?  I'll use an example in my arena queue right now: 

Dutchess Lilutu
Rotos
Madame Serris
Tormin the Cold

What is your counter team to this that wins 75% of the time?  If you're against an AI, and able to select the team, you should be the favorite if your gear is on par.  Most of the time, this Rotos support cast is enough to delay things until he annihilates you.  Can't just burst him down because first he can't take more than 50% in a hit (and gets an extra turn if he does).  Need to target Lilutu to prevent the resurrect.  If you have any buffs on, Tormin's wreaking havoc freezing your team.  If he gets even ONE opening, Rotos can pop off and kill 2 or 3 of your team members, and most of the time you can't resurrect them.

The point isn't that teams with him can't be beaten:

I took down this team with Prince Kymar, Madame Serris, Raglin and Yannica.  The problem is that he requires devoting a lot more resources to managing than any other champion right now.  With the right team around him, and gear being equal, he will crush you no matter who you put together on a team.  He's out of balance enough to give a strong edge.

BTW, that was my third attempt at taking that team down.  Prior to that I tried things like taunts, stuns and turn meter manipulation to no avail.

First of all, your example is a top tier example where all 4 are top arena champions, not just Rotos. Take 1 away like Duchess or Tormin and it’s weaker, much weaker. Take Rotos away and it’s actually still good.

There are plenty of counters. Rotos is not void, Force DPS that goes fast or can go guaranteed like Brakus can 1 shot Rotos - because it does multi hit which overcomes Rotos passive.

My Brakus can 1 shot any Rotos and does it again on Brakus death-revive because it goes again.

There are also plenty of other block revive and ignore defence champions, and they are void. They are less common in platinum because they are harder to get and wasn’t a fusion!

Rotos and Tormin is more popular than Siphi and others like Hegemonies because they were easy fusions, probably easier to crappy Skull lord lol

holcombjosh1 said:

Victory March said:

People wouldn't complain about Rotos if they had him.  I'm pretty sure.

Rotos is plainly out of balance.  If people who have him were being honest, and not just keeping their mouth shut because they enjoy the advantage, they would say the same.  You only have to look at the platinum teams to see that he's on almost EVERY TEAM.  It's not just because he's a snazzy dresser.

Someone above said "just counter him".  How is that done exactly?  I'll use an example in my arena queue right now: 

Dutchess Lilutu
Rotos
Madame Serris
Tormin the Cold

What is your counter team to this that wins 75% of the time?  If you're against an AI, and able to select the team, you should be the favorite if your gear is on par.  Most of the time, this Rotos support cast is enough to delay things until he annihilates you.  Can't just burst him down because first he can't take more than 50% in a hit (and gets an extra turn if he does).  Need to target Lilutu to prevent the resurrect.  If you have any buffs on, Tormin's wreaking havoc freezing your team.  If he gets even ONE opening, Rotos can pop off and kill 2 or 3 of your team members, and most of the time you can't resurrect them.

The point isn't that teams with him can't be beaten:

I took down this team with Prince Kymar, Madame Serris, Raglin and Yannica.  The problem is that he requires devoting a lot more resources to managing than any other champion right now.  With the right team around him, and gear being equal, he will crush you no matter who you put together on a team.  He's out of balance enough to give a strong edge.

BTW, that was my third attempt at taking that team down.  Prior to that I tried things like taunts, stuns and turn meter manipulation to no avail.

First of all, your example is a top tier example where all 4 are top arena champions, not just Rotos. Take 1 away like Duchess or Tormin and it’s weaker, much weaker. Take Rotos away and it’s actually still good.

There are plenty of counters. Rotos is not void, Force DPS that goes fast or can go guaranteed like Brakus can 1 shot Rotos - because it does multi hit which overcomes Rotos passive.

My Brakus can 1 shot any Rotos and does it again on Brakus death-revive because it goes again.

There are also plenty of other block revive and ignore defence champions, and they are void. They are less common in platinum because they are harder to get and wasn’t a fusion!

Rotos and Tormin is more popular than Siphi and others like Hegemonies because they were easy fusions, probably easier to crappy Skull lord lol

holcombjosh1 said:

Ethan said:

holcombjosh1 said:

Victory March said:

People wouldn't complain about Rotos if they had him.  I'm pretty sure.

Rotos is plainly out of balance.  If people who have him were being honest, and not just keeping their mouth shut because they enjoy the advantage, they would say the same.  You only have to look at the platinum teams to see that he's on almost EVERY TEAM.  It's not just because he's a snazzy dresser.

Someone above said "just counter him".  How is that done exactly?  I'll use an example in my arena queue right now: 

Dutchess Lilutu
Rotos
Madame Serris
Tormin the Cold

What is your counter team to this that wins 75% of the time?  If you're against an AI, and able to select the team, you should be the favorite if your gear is on par.  Most of the time, this Rotos support cast is enough to delay things until he annihilates you.  Can't just burst him down because first he can't take more than 50% in a hit (and gets an extra turn if he does).  Need to target Lilutu to prevent the resurrect.  If you have any buffs on, Tormin's wreaking havoc freezing your team.  If he gets even ONE opening, Rotos can pop off and kill 2 or 3 of your team members, and most of the time you can't resurrect them.

The point isn't that teams with him can't be beaten:

I took down this team with Prince Kymar, Madame Serris, Raglin and Yannica.  The problem is that he requires devoting a lot more resources to managing than any other champion right now.  With the right team around him, and gear being equal, he will crush you no matter who you put together on a team.  He's out of balance enough to give a strong edge.

BTW, that was my third attempt at taking that team down.  Prior to that I tried things like taunts, stuns and turn meter manipulation to no avail.

First of all, your example is a top tier example where all 4 are top arena champions, not just Rotos. Take 1 away like Duchess or Tormin and it’s weaker, much weaker. Take Rotos away and it’s actually still good.

There are plenty of counters. Rotos is not void, Force DPS that goes fast or can go guaranteed like Brakus can 1 shot Rotos - because it does multi hit which overcomes Rotos passive.

My Brakus can 1 shot any Rotos and does it again on Brakus death-revive because it goes again.

There are also plenty of other block revive and ignore defence champions, and they are void. They are less common in platinum because they are harder to get and wasn’t a fusion!

Rotos and Tormin is more popular than Siphi and others like Hegemonies because they were easy fusions, probably easier to crappy Skull lord lol

Look, can we just be objective for a second here?  No other champion has a kit as overpowered as Rotos'.  He has incredibly good defense with his passive, AND he does fantastic damage, AND he can have many multiple turns AND can block revives.  He is on virtually every top arena team for exactly this reason.  His kit is out of scale with every other champion out there.  Even if you own him and don't want him nerfed because you enjoy beating up everyone who doesn't have him, you have to admit that imbalance is bad for a game like this.

You are the one not being objective. I been Platinum for ages without Rotos, and without any OP champions except Arbiter (free).

First, Rotos is magic affinity and attack based champion. Hello weakness. He is not in every top team. If you look, Tormin and Arbiter are In just as much. Guess what: They were all easy to get champions!

Rotos: fusion (easy one too)

Arbiter: free to play missions

Tormin: fusion (not sure if easy - didn’t play)

Look at the real OP Void (yes you know what void is yes?) champions. Like Siphi and Venus and Ithos and Baron. Guess why you only see some teams with them? Because you need 1000s of void shards to get them. 

Take some examples:

1. Baron AOE all enemies and ignore shield and block damage

2. Venus AOE applies both def down and weaken

3. Hegemon goes first guaranteed and AOE attack down and block cooldown on all abilities lol.  I mean that there is already game over for most teams.

How are these and other void legendaries any less OP? It’s just you don’t face them that much.

In fact there are plenty of top combos that don’t run Rotos:

1. Ally Attack together combo: rotos A1 is too weak

2. Speed nuke combo: roto no AOe

Rotos also has trouble with force champions (watch it do like no damage) or high health champions like Krisk or ally protect. If you have any of these: force, high Hp or ally protect or just being faster lol, it’s enough to counter. He is just a magic attack champion...

THE reason why people loose to Rotos is because they are LAZY. They gear their characters for arena and CB/dungeon the same. Arena needs HP and crit damage in current meta, not defence or attack.  If you have enough health, you can survive these big attacks. If you are the correct affinity, he does almost no damage.

Also, to further show why Rotos is not OP:  he can't carry you in arena.

Have you ever seen a weak team with Rotos in Platinum?  No, you see Rotos surrounded by equal or better champions like Siphi, Tormin, Hegemon.  But have you seen weak as crap teams carried by Duchess? Yep - Duchess + Kael and Zargala is enough sometimes if you are fast and crit hard.  Now you compare the champion cost (in shards) of Duchess (spirit), Kael (starter) and Zargala (force) against the combos out there ...  That is why Duchess is OP, but Rotos is not. He has zero team work abilities, Rotos is a good dps add if your team is strong; not vice versa. But so many other void champions can do the same job or better. 

P.S. They lost not because of lack of Rotos, but because of no Duchess

LOL few hours after my post above:

StewGaming video on taking out Rotos and Void Baron (who I think is stronger than Rotos) with....

Free 2 play rare and fusion Skull-shitty-face

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N53hWV64zgA

It's such a joke, because he was just doing 8k hits on Rotos, but force > magic -- and that's all you need. Like I been saying, Rotos is magic and doesn't do anything on force champions (Rotos does 2k hits)

Surely this ends the debate. lol