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Champion Pass - buyable champs sets a terrible precedent

Champion Pass - buyable champs sets a terrible precedent

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harleQuinnModerator
Nov 10, 2023, 13:4711/10/23
02/24/19
7784
8675309

OK genius, explain how someone else spending money impacts on you or your gameplay? 


The game is built around competition that is evolvinng.  

Hi!  I'm a microbiologist and guess what a big part o my job is?  Understanding communities and competitions at the individual and community level, especially when all resoures are equal but useability of resouorces is differentiated.  

To answer the question: 

As I see the current competitive model.  Serious P2P players are about two years in advancement ahead of nonpaying customers and nonserious P2P players.  

Yes, F2P can get almost everything P2P can but the game evolves, everything gets better, harder, etc.  the game like life isn't stagnent, it's either progressing or regressing.  P2P are able to stay at the leading edge of game mechanics and game winnning strategies.  F2P can't maintain the same leading edge, they simply do not have the ability to take advantage of the now like P2P.  

The impact is simple.  F2P players have to work harder to do the same thing and "force" P2P to spend or fall behind.  

How does this impact you?  F2P can't compete where it matters most.  The now and the tomorrow.


Using microbiology as a justification for your opinion on mobile game monetization strategies is ...... interesting I guess. Although as a molecular biologist and biochemist who also works with something that doesn't relate to mobile phone games at all, I personally wouldn't use my nonrelated expertise as an appeal to authority.

Perhaps if you were an expert in gaming, monetization or casinos, I'd be more on board with the conclusions you erroneously apply to mobile games from your research.

Nov 10, 2023, 14:1611/10/23
05/26/22
550
kramaswamy.kr

Just to add on to my original point - the problem is not this specific champ. Looking over her kit, she seems okay, nothing game-changing.

The problem is the precedent it sets. Forge pass is on a roughly 2-month cycle, I think? So, are we to expect that every two months there'll be a new champ that people can buy, but not consistently get through any other means? How long before that starts changing the meta, for the worse?

You already saw it happen with forge pass, where the bolster set was briefly meta-defining. But, as FTP, I completed it, and managed to piece together a decent set with the parts they made available tome.

If, on the other hand, I'd have had to spend money to get the pieces, then, during that time, I'd have been materially disadvantaged compared to those who spent money.

A big part of the draw of this game, to me at least, is essentially "beating the system", so to speak. Finding creative ways to win despite others having access to more resources by virtue of spending money. Take that out of the equation, and the game becomes much less interesting.

Nothing game changing but certainly meta changing. This champion is probably going to be able to one shot PvP teams that pile on the buffs. 

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 10, 2023, 15:0611/10/23
12/30/20
5989
8675309

"They aren't spending to win, it's a progression game, spenders reach the end goals quicker - why they want to do that I don't know, but that's their choice, ftp get there as well but it takes a lot longer."

Anyone else played a ton of games like this?  Have you found the above statement to be perpeturted by the games developers from the get go but never seen any truth to it in any end game, ever.  I you have found it to be true, please, point that gaming model out to me because, I've never seen it.  

It reminds me of the "Monty Python" Dead Parrot sketch.

   


I'll take specifically the micro approach to this rather than broad: I've never seen what you quoted said by a game developer in Raid, but I've certainly seen it said by numerous long time, end game players whose opinions about gameplay I trust. 

I feel quite strongly that quote has remained true for Raid, save for the highest end of Plat Arena. 

Nov 10, 2023, 15:5711/10/23
11/19/22
619

I'm offered Xena for £40, but HellHades is being offered it for £60. I think it's a big error if Plarium have used dynamic pricing instead of a flat rate for the Champion Pass, according to your spend level. That's a major price difference. 

Nov 10, 2023, 16:0011/10/23
06/03/23
70
harleQuinn

Using microbiology as a justification for your opinion on mobile game monetization strategies is ...... interesting I guess. Although as a molecular biologist and biochemist who also works with something that doesn't relate to mobile phone games at all, I personally wouldn't use my nonrelated expertise as an appeal to authority.

Perhaps if you were an expert in gaming, monetization or casinos, I'd be more on board with the conclusions you erroneously apply to mobile games from your research.

Population dynamics and competition on an individual and community based on phenotypic competition... Sure, I'm a complete idiot.  Carry on.

Nov 10, 2023, 16:0211/10/23
11/16/20
1146

A fool and his money is soon parted.

Not sure why im not buying it myself.

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 10, 2023, 16:0711/10/23
02/24/19
7784
8675309

Population dynamics and competition on an individual and community based on phenotypic competition... Sure, I'm a complete idiot.  Carry on.

Lol. I agree.

Nov 10, 2023, 16:1111/10/23
12/16/21
910
Fathertron

I'm offered Xena for £40, but HellHades is being offered it for £60. I think it's a big error if Plarium have used dynamic pricing instead of a flat rate for the Champion Pass, according to your spend level. That's a major price difference. 

Are you looking at the "elite pass" or "elite + levels" prices?


As i understand it, the difference is the +levels one gives you all the rewards right now, but costs about 50% more

Nov 10, 2023, 16:2611/10/23
12/19/19
6260

I am actually tempted to break my f2p for this one time purchase.

Nov 10, 2023, 16:3011/10/23
08/31/21
15
doctor_blur

I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on Raid and my spending allows the game to be Free of Charge to those who cannot afford (or don't wish to) invest in the game. I'm generally very happy to share what I have with others but quite frankly, what incentive do I have to spend on the game if I can get everything for free? 


So - Plarium is putting a champion behind a pay wall - what in the world is wrong with that? Those of us who spend tremendous sums of money deserve tremendous things in return. The entitlement of Free2Play individuals amuses me - not even Minecraft is free (!), but yet Plarium has somehow gone insane for charging limited fees for certain content? Oh come now, surely not. 


In my opinion, large amounts of the game should be open to everyone, but there simply is nothing wrong with offering access to special content, champions, bosses, rewards and more to the individuals who directly fund the development of a great game everyone can enjoy (almost all of). 😉

I agree, you are absolutely correct that those who spend a tremendous amount of money should get a lot for their money.  Giving you a champion for $40 is beyond irrelevant to you and everyone else in the game.  Honestly, people like you will have multiple copies of this champ before I ever get one and that is fine with me.

An interesting question though is how Plarium wants to be perceived by the huge part of the player base that is F2P or low spending (i.e. $20/month or less).  

I believe the game is successful because it has a huge player base which supports the
brand (F2P/Low Spend) AND high spenders who support the game financially.

This is why I think Kramaswamy's remarks are important and valuable.  Plarium needs to strike a difficult balance between rewarding P2P and still making the game fun for a large F2P audience.  In the last year it seems like their monetization push may be hurting their brand which isn't good for the spenders either... but maybe the spenders and Plarium don't care if the game has a large player base?

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 10, 2023, 16:3111/10/23
02/24/19
7784
Trips

I am actually tempted to break my f2p for this one time purchase.

As long as you know I'll never let you live it down, you filthy closet whale. 😂

Nov 10, 2023, 16:3311/10/23
06/16/22
203
Trips

I am actually tempted to break my f2p for this one time purchase.

Why so Trips? You think she's that good? Thought you're more of a DEF nuker enthusiast. 

Nov 10, 2023, 16:3911/10/23
12/19/19
6260
kmanmott

Why so Trips? You think she's that good? Thought you're more of a DEF nuker enthusiast. 

Have u seen my untapped stoneskin arsenal in storage?

Nov 10, 2023, 16:4011/10/23
12/19/19
6260
harleQuinn

As long as you know I'll never let you live it down, you filthy closet whale. 😂

Your f2p claims are far more outrageous than mine... just saying 😌 

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 10, 2023, 16:4411/10/23
02/24/19
7784
Trips

Your f2p claims are far more outrageous than mine... just saying 😌 

Sir, try as you might, you can't defray your purchases with wild aspersions. I see through the ruse and respect you for the true 🐋 you are.

Nov 10, 2023, 16:4611/10/23
12/19/19
6260
19Kelsier

I agree, you are absolutely correct that those who spend a tremendous amount of money should get a lot for their money.  Giving you a champion for $40 is beyond irrelevant to you and everyone else in the game.  Honestly, people like you will have multiple copies of this champ before I ever get one and that is fine with me.

An interesting question though is how Plarium wants to be perceived by the huge part of the player base that is F2P or low spending (i.e. $20/month or less).  

I believe the game is successful because it has a huge player base which supports the
brand (F2P/Low Spend) AND high spenders who support the game financially.

This is why I think Kramaswamy's remarks are important and valuable.  Plarium needs to strike a difficult balance between rewarding P2P and still making the game fun for a large F2P audience.  In the last year it seems like their monetization push may be hurting their brand which isn't good for the spenders either... but maybe the spenders and Plarium don't care if the game has a large player base?

You answered yourself with your closing comment.


Neither cares about the f2p population.  I oversimplify/exaggerate that they add ZERO value to the game, whereas they were necessary to grow the game prior.   But the value converges to 0 over time.

At an individual a new f2p has potential future value, only correlated with the probability of p2p conversion.   

Nov 10, 2023, 17:4911/10/23
08/31/21
15
Trips

You answered yourself with your closing comment.


Neither cares about the f2p population.  I oversimplify/exaggerate that they add ZERO value to the game, whereas they were necessary to grow the game prior.   But the value converges to 0 over time.

At an individual a new f2p has potential future value, only correlated with the probability of p2p conversion.   

You may be right... it will be interesting to see what happens with Watcher of Realms, Dragon Heir, and other competitors entering into this space... maybe the large player base doesn't matter but a large player base saying your game sucks can't be good for the brand! LOL

Nov 10, 2023, 17:4911/10/23
06/16/22
203
Trips

Have u seen my untapped stoneskin arsenal in storage?

Coming from the guy that doesn't want to build a Stoneskin 800 accuracy Gnishak? Pssst shame on you. 

Nov 10, 2023, 17:4911/10/23
12/16/21
910
Trips

You answered yourself with your closing comment.


Neither cares about the f2p population.  I oversimplify/exaggerate that they add ZERO value to the game, whereas they were necessary to grow the game prior.   But the value converges to 0 over time.

At an individual a new f2p has potential future value, only correlated with the probability of p2p conversion.   

Don't underestimate the attraction a kraken has for absolutely stomping a f2p in a pvp match.

Even though they *know* for a fact the odds are heavily stacked in thier favor, winning still beings the same endorphine/dopamine boost

Nov 10, 2023, 18:4211/10/23
11/19/22
619
MooredRat

Are you looking at the "elite pass" or "elite + levels" prices?


As i understand it, the difference is the +levels one gives you all the rewards right now, but costs about 50% more

Oops! You're right! My bad!