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Ultimate Deathknight and new players

Ultimate Deathknight and new players

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Nov 22, 2022, 19:0511/22/22
02/11/21
932

I am prepping my Basher as a control champ for Arena. Load him up with Speed and Accuracy to go second after your turn meter booster. The beautiful thing about skill cooldown is that it's not like a regular debuff in that it cannot be cleansed. He is your best Arena champ....yes, better than UDK. 

Can you post Kael's stats? What levels are you in dungeons?

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 22, 2022, 20:3511/22/22
12/30/20
6033
AtotehZ

So there's an update on my situation. I have an UDK now since I won the tournament.

I know it's not necessarily what Plarium wants to hear, but I did it without spending(kinda proud of that). I will spend on monthly gems though, just haven't yet.

Since I'm in a position where I'm not on the outside anymore I just want to reiterate my opinion.

A champion like UDK should not be handed out to everyone willy nilly. It completely changes the landscape of arenas. Literally 80% or more use one, and those who don't are the ones I go for to get an easy kill most of the time. I'm silver 3-4, but will probably move to gold now that I have UDK. It makes sense to have champions like that in more experienced circles, or with people who pulled it or worked hard towards it, but everyone?

Even now that I have the champion I think it's better to simply remove the champion from the game than let things stay as they are. It would create a better PvP experience outside the top leagues. I know it can't happen and that it would be a cluster..., but I still think the game would be improved by doing it. That's how much I think the champion messes things up.

Mod note: edited for language


i

I want to touch on this for a second, though you acknowledged it can't happen.

Imagine you started the game around UDK or a bit before. You 60'd him, masteries, books, geared him out and you're all ready to use him in a wide range of content. Then he gets nerfed because even though he isn't overpowered, players without an efficient approach early on have difficulties with him in Arena. 

This just seems much worse than the alternative. I understand not everyone wants to push hard at the start to move in a straight line path and that's completely fine. But even if UDK is a champion that requires a little more of a focus early in Arena, that shouldn't be a reason to completely remove or nerf him, regardless of how he was attained. 

You're still going to be able to beat players who gear their UDK poorly (even if you don't have UDK), or throw them in with teams that aren't very good, or both. 

Nov 22, 2022, 20:5211/22/22
11/04/22
44
dthorne04


i

I want to touch on this for a second, though you acknowledged it can't happen.

Imagine you started the game around UDK or a bit before. You 60'd him, masteries, books, geared him out and you're all ready to use him in a wide range of content. Then he gets nerfed because even though he isn't overpowered, players without an efficient approach early on have difficulties with him in Arena. 

This just seems much worse than the alternative. I understand not everyone wants to push hard at the start to move in a straight line path and that's completely fine. But even if UDK is a champion that requires a little more of a focus early in Arena, that shouldn't be a reason to completely remove or nerf him, regardless of how he was attained. 

You're still going to be able to beat players who gear their UDK poorly (even if you don't have UDK), or throw them in with teams that aren't very good, or both. 

I agree. You can't remove a champion retroactively without major repercussions.

What I'm saying is that it would improve the gameplay in lower tiers. It just wouldn't be worth it because of the backlash.

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 22, 2022, 20:5311/22/22
02/24/19
7825
dthorne04


i

I want to touch on this for a second, though you acknowledged it can't happen.

Imagine you started the game around UDK or a bit before. You 60'd him, masteries, books, geared him out and you're all ready to use him in a wide range of content. Then he gets nerfed because even though he isn't overpowered, players without an efficient approach early on have difficulties with him in Arena. 

This just seems much worse than the alternative. I understand not everyone wants to push hard at the start to move in a straight line path and that's completely fine. But even if UDK is a champion that requires a little more of a focus early in Arena, that shouldn't be a reason to completely remove or nerf him, regardless of how he was attained. 

You're still going to be able to beat players who gear their UDK poorly (even if you don't have UDK), or throw them in with teams that aren't very good, or both. 

The sheer brutality this would be on people that spent real money buying five 5 star chickens and the legendary books. Or even people who did it with their saved resources, like me. Every one of those people would have such a legitimate reason to be furious.

Nov 22, 2022, 21:1211/22/22
11/04/22
44

Regarding Arena rating. I got to 1989... Then I ran out of tokens and now I'm being attacked once every 15 mins or so. So no gold for me for now. Will probably drop to the bottom of Silver IV or even further.

Nov 22, 2022, 21:1711/22/22
10/15/20
2041
AtotehZ

I am not on week one any more, but I guess there's little difference between week 1 and 3 in the grand scheme of things.

It isn't my point either. The point is that I'm only able to get there because of the champion that's honestly broken down in bronze and low silver tiers, in the place where 80% of the fights are "don't even try" because of 1 single champion. I haven't gotten to gold yet. I'm at 1913 rating and climbing relatively fast, but I lose most of my defenses(6/6 lost in last 3hrs). When I get further up I'll take a beating. It's not that I'm ready to be in gold, it's that a broken champion will get me +250 rating more no problem, even though it'll be hard to stay up there. Again, I know there are ways to deal with him, but there are less people who can in low silver and down.

I'm not Ranking Galek up to 6. I got him early and having him rank 5 wasn't too hard to get.

My lineup is still a mess. I don't have a complete team yet. Not their gear, not their levels and not the champions themselves.

Here are my champions:

i

Please keep in mind that I got UDK(ascension 3 later today) today and Kunoichi got Rank 6 today. It's not that this is what I wanna use, it's just what I have.

I never really wanted Warpriest rank 5, but it just fit as part of getting pts for the tournament I got UDK with. Jizoh and Basher are new and I don't know what to make of them yet.

I use hellhades for tips a lot, but getting the stuff they recommend is another story. If I have items with great stats and they recommend a different set where I have practically bupkis, there's really no choice.

If you are in week 3 allready, you will get High Khatun as log-in reward soon (day 30).

You should farm exp for your food-champs in campaign stage 9 for a while and hope you will find a Warmaiden (Barbarian, rare). You can farm further in that stage to get copies of her, you can use these copies instead of skill books to increase her skills. Warmaiden can put a 60% def debuff on all enemies, that is much better than Galek's version.

With Warmaiden, High Khatun and Kael you allready have the basic parts of a functional arena team. The 4th champ could be Basher or UDK, depending on the opposite team.

High Khatun goes first and gives a speed and turnmeter boost to your team. Warmaiden goes after her and puts decrease def on all enemies, Kael will be very happy about this debuff. Kael goes as 3rd champ and attacks all enemies. His damage will be much higher than now, where you don't have that debuff. Ignoring 60% of the enemies defense is a massive damage boost.

Nov 22, 2022, 21:4111/22/22
Nov 22, 2022, 21:48(edited)
11/04/22
44
Skadi

If you are in week 3 allready, you will get High Khatun as log-in reward soon (day 30).

You should farm exp for your food-champs in campaign stage 9 for a while and hope you will find a Warmaiden (Barbarian, rare). You can farm further in that stage to get copies of her, you can use these copies instead of skill books to increase her skills. Warmaiden can put a 60% def debuff on all enemies, that is much better than Galek's version.

With Warmaiden, High Khatun and Kael you allready have the basic parts of a functional arena team. The 4th champ could be Basher or UDK, depending on the opposite team.

High Khatun goes first and gives a speed and turnmeter boost to your team. Warmaiden goes after her and puts decrease def on all enemies, Kael will be very happy about this debuff. Kael goes as 3rd champ and attacks all enemies. His damage will be much higher than now, where you don't have that debuff. Ignoring 60% of the enemies defense is a massive damage boost.

Yea, it's 2.5x damage. 100% * 10/4 = 250%.

I get the functionality of that team. Kunoichi and Heiress shouldn't really be used for PvP either, but somehow it works together with UDK. They block each other's damage and then you get more nukes in. The situations where it doesn't work is where their nukes are too powerful or they survive the onslaught too long.

I understand why amplifying dmg would be better.

I'm 11 days from Khatun btw. I'm in my 3rd week, but haven't been here 21 days yet :)

Nov 22, 2022, 21:5111/22/22
10/15/20
2041
AtotehZ

Yea, it's 2.5x damage. 100% * 10/4 = 250%.

I get the functionality of that team. Kunoichi and Heiress shouldn't really be used for PvP either, but somehow it works together with UDK. They block each other's damage and then you get more nukes in. The situations where it doesn't work is where their nukes are too powerful or they survive the onslaught too long.

I understand why amplifying dmg would be better.

I'm 11 days from Khatun btw. I'm in my 3rd week, but haven't been here 21 days yet :)

Defense works not like that actually. The damage mitigation from defense is not linear, the first points of defense absorb much more damage than the latter (a flattened curve). So the benefit of the debuff is a bit smaller than 250% more damage. But it's still one of the most usefull debuffs in the game.

Farming Warmaiden in campaign is something I recommend to every starter in Raid. To be honest, it's very likely that you will find a better def debuffer in a shard one day, who will push Warmaiden out of your main teams. But early on she is the queen. And I still use her in faction wars in my team that can beat the last stage, so she will probably never move to the vault for retired champs.

Nov 22, 2022, 21:5511/22/22
Nov 22, 2022, 22:52(edited)
11/04/22
44
Skadi

Defense works not like that actually. The damage mitigation from defense is not linear, the first points of defense absorb much more damage than the latter (a flattened curve). So the benefit of the debuff is a bit smaller than 250% more damage. But it's still one of the most usefull debuffs in the game.

Farming Warmaiden in campaign is something I recommend to every starter in Raid. To be honest, it's very likely that you will find a better def debuffer in a shard one day, who will push Warmaiden out of your main teams. But early on she is the queen. And I still use her in faction wars in my team that can beat the last stage, so she will probably never move to the vault for retired champs.

Thanks for clarifying. So it's like most MOBA's then.

I spoke too soon about arena btw:

i

EDIT: I spent 100 diamonds to try see how far I could get in gold 1. Don't wanna go further. I'll fall anyway.

The teams in this tier makes me feel not welcome xD Everyone is max ascension and level 50/60

Also I'm noticing that UDK representation is down from 80% to 40%. Done 2 refreshes now and it was the case every time. I'm pretty sure most opponents here won't just beat me though. They won't let me take a turn.

Nov 22, 2022, 22:2911/22/22
Nov 22, 2022, 22:32(edited)
11/04/22
44
Balltazer

I am prepping my Basher as a control champ for Arena. Load him up with Speed and Accuracy to go second after your turn meter booster. The beautiful thing about skill cooldown is that it's not like a regular debuff in that it cannot be cleansed. He is your best Arena champ....yes, better than UDK. 

Can you post Kael's stats? What levels are you in dungeons?

Sorry, I missed your question.

I'm at level 15 in dungeons and here's Kael:

i

I'm using Lifesteal, Divine Life and General PvE masteries... I would've preferred Perception instead of Divine Life, I lack accuracy, but I don't have any good ones atm.

Nov 22, 2022, 22:5511/22/22
02/11/21
932
AtotehZ

Thanks for clarifying. So it's like most MOBA's then.

I spoke too soon about arena btw:

i

EDIT: I spent 100 diamonds to try see how far I could get in gold 1. Don't wanna go further. I'll fall anyway.

The teams in this tier makes me feel not welcome xD Everyone is max ascension and level 50/60

Also I'm noticing that UDK representation is down from 80% to 40%. Done 2 refreshes now and it was the case every time. I'm pretty sure most opponents here won't just beat me though. They won't let me take a turn.

Yeah, early stages of Arena consist mostly of speed-nuke teams, UDK doesn't really belong in that format, he's more of a go-second team champ, and in early-mid game, your gear won't allow for effective go-second teams. Most of it follows the TM booster (Khatun) - Control (Basher) - Debuffer (Warmaiden) - Nuke (Kael) structure. 

Some people don't use control and they often get cut in or have to build their debuffer and nuker faster than they should be. If Kael is your farmer, you can build Galek to be your Arena nuker, that way you can put ATK% boots on him for massive nukes. The idea is that Basher's A2 will have their team only use A1s while your debuffer and nukers can sacrifice speed for Accuracy and nuke stats, respectively. 

With your arena nuker, you want to see if you can scrounge up enough c.rate from other artifacts, so you can use crit damage gloves. I probably wouldn't worry about sets at this moment, but if you're raiding fire knight, keep an eye out for Savage gear. 

All in all, I think you'll find that when your arena team and champions are built right, UDK is not going to be much of an issue....and by the time you're facing legit go-second teams, UDK will be the least of your problems. 

Nov 22, 2022, 22:5911/22/22
02/11/21
932
AtotehZ

Sorry, I missed your question.

I'm at level 15 in dungeons and here's Kael:

i

I'm using Lifesteal, Divine Life and General PvE masteries... I would've preferred Perception instead of Divine Life, I lack accuracy, but I don't have any good ones atm.

You can get accuracy for Clan Boss, but for Arena, his A2 should be enough to nuke everyone. Like someone suggested a defense debuffer (Warmaiden) is a must. And see if you can get some crit damage on him. Or, you could try building Galek as dedicated Arena nuker, he nukes hard, too.....and Kael is good for farming and CB. 

Nov 22, 2022, 23:0211/22/22
Nov 22, 2022, 23:05(edited)
11/04/22
44
Balltazer

You can get accuracy for Clan Boss, but for Arena, his A2 should be enough to nuke everyone. Like someone suggested a defense debuffer (Warmaiden) is a must. And see if you can get some crit damage on him. Or, you could try building Galek as dedicated Arena nuker, he nukes hard, too.....and Kael is good for farming and CB. 

Kael is pretty much all I used to win the tournament that got me UDK. Constant flow of low level champs and then a single build-up to ranking up Kunoichi and throwing a lot of barrels at the rank 5/6. That gave me a 3k boost in score at the end which made me win with a score of 14831 vs 12891 for 2nd.

By end I mean I jumped from being almost 1k behind to 2k in front in the last 5 mins.

That was planned though since I'd seen him jump a lot. He was obviously purchasing his way to match me, so I saved a lot for the end as a surprise.

Nov 22, 2022, 23:0811/22/22
02/11/21
932
AtotehZ

Kael is pretty much all I used to win the tournament that got me UDK. Constant flow of low level champs and then a single build-up to ranking up Kunoichi and throwing a lot of barrels at the rank 5/6. That gave me a 3k boost in score at the end which made me win with a score of 14831 vs 12891 for 2nd.

By end I mean I jumped from being almost 1k behind to 2k in front in the last 5 mins.

That was planned though since I'd seen him jump a lot. He was obviously purchasing his way to match me, so I saved a lot for the end as a surprise.

Yeah, Kael is more versatile, that's why I recommend dedicating Galek to Arena, so Kael can tend to other content for you. Right now, Arena is not as important for account progression. Farming chickens and advancing in Dungeons is key. Once you can start getting 6* gear from Dungeons, it's "welcome to mid-game" and you can start focusing harder on Arena because you'll have gear for it. 

Nov 22, 2022, 23:3411/22/22
07/08/19
981
Balltazer

Yeah, Kael is more versatile, that's why I recommend dedicating Galek to Arena, so Kael can tend to other content for you. Right now, Arena is not as important for account progression. Farming chickens and advancing in Dungeons is key. Once you can start getting 6* gear from Dungeons, it's "welcome to mid-game" and you can start focusing harder on Arena because you'll have gear for it. 

i don't think it's worth bothering with galek for arena. even if he's built purely for damage i doubt he'll be able to outperform kael at five stars and he's not worth bringing up to rank six.

Nov 22, 2022, 23:3711/22/22
Nov 22, 2022, 23:37(edited)
11/04/22
44

According to HellHades Galek is a 2.5 star champion(their scale). My friend said not to take him further than rank 5 as well.

I think the Khatun + Warmaiden addition sounds good. Just gotta produce some food and get some items for them then.

Nov 22, 2022, 23:4511/22/22
02/11/21
932

I mean if Arena is that important to you, Kael spread thin between farming campaign, Dragon, and CB is not your optimal nuke in Arena. Just giving you an Arena option. 

Nov 22, 2022, 23:4811/22/22
11/04/22
44

I'm not really in a position to say if Galek will be a stronger nuker or not. It's just that at the moment Kael is too much more powerful than Galek for him to be an option. Kael's nukes literally do 3 times the damage.

I will definitely keep using Galek for now. I'm using him based on the enemy alignment.

Nov 23, 2022, 00:0311/23/22
10/15/20
2041
Balltazer

I mean if Arena is that important to you, Kael spread thin between farming campaign, Dragon, and CB is not your optimal nuke in Arena. Just giving you an Arena option. 

It's not worth to use resources on Galek. AototehZ will get a lot of shards just from progressing in the game. There will be a nuker better than Galek and Kael in that shards. Galek will sit in the vault forever. Better doing so as a 5* champ than as a 6*.

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 23, 2022, 00:0411/23/22
12/30/20
6033
Carpe_Piscis

i don't think it's worth bothering with galek for arena. even if he's built purely for damage i doubt he'll be able to outperform kael at five stars and he's not worth bringing up to rank six.

I would have to concur with this. Taking Galek up to 6 would be a rough allocation of resources. 

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