knigochey said:

I cannot take this anymore. Last straw: attacked 18 PP. 

18th was 136 lvl. At least 200 mil res invested. Payout 913 M. Pelts. 

19th was 132.lvl  Payout 153 Promos and 765 Thureos. 

That scenario goes on for many months. Plarium makes sure I have smallest payout in higher positions (if I hit 160+it is aven smaller than with the 130-149 range). 

I don't have enough  troops left to go further with high lvl PP,  and I know that if I hit smaller ones - then the "generous" Plarium will come down to me and give couple thousand ponies/phalanx. Since I am running my friend's city, I know that there are much fewer obstacles than I have.

So tired of the "free game" tricks.

If you feel the same, PM me. 

You might ask where is damage. Well, the "free game" promise implies that you can be competitive, without spending money. You do your best, you perfect your skills - but you have no chance against coiners and those who "know secrets" by being connected to the staff. You spend enormous amount of time - and the gap is even larger. Thus, our losses is priceless time killed by the game, maybe even lost job opportunities (yes, I know game addicts) and depressive mood. All resulting from the certain Plarium "business strategies". 

Hope to hear from you

Mike

    

Knigochey,

With all respect, if I may respond to your post-

We are both in the USA. I state this for clarity reasons in regards to your post heading of a "Time To Find Class Action Lawyers". I state the following and make no claims as a attorney, but as a dis-interested party (legal term) and as a player of the game.

-This action would be difficult and quite expensive on your part. The plarium terms of agreement to play this game is posted:

http://company.plarium.com/terms-of-use/

Please note section 10 and 11. this section alone gives plarium the right, as a corporation to protect itself.

You voluntarily play the game. What Plarium does, or what "You" think it does with regards to people having the "inside information" needed to play and succeed at persian positions may/may not be true. 

In any case, the onus of the responsibility is, on you to get Plarium in court and prove a "beyond a reasonable" doubt that Plarium does what you are stating.

The above being stated?

Well, Persian Positions have a certain mechanics to them no doubt. All tied to agreements, resources, scrolls of each player etc.. Each payout is different. There is no guarantee that you will "win" large. On the contrary, you will, as I have in the past lose a good portion of your army trying to beat the odds!

So I choose to build troops, rather than play Xerxes. On occasion, I will throw 1000 lights at a position and weaken it, only to come back a week or two later and knock it down. No harm, no loss to my army. 

My game style is adapted to "not playing Xerxes because I do not fully understand the so called "system". 

For example-if i have a total of 5000 offensive troops and I use 4000 to get 200 higher troops, my army is only 1200 total count. Where is the gain? Sure..in off/def ratings maybe, but still I went from having a 5000 member army to a 1200 member army. 

Unacceptable to me.

In regards to "Coiners"? Well, that too is an ongoing issue. Plarium "is" a business. Many people think that because of the "Free" part, they might be "owed" something from Plarium? Not the case, my apologies for stating so.

Some people choose to spend, others do not. 

 I play within my financial comfort zone. I used to buy packages, but I have had to align my "real world" needs (including medical issues) with my game life needs. I play 'small", and build lights, I chip away at emporiums thru cooperation with other players so as no attacks on my city. 

My PVP comes from hitting pans and emporiums and staying within an acceptable gain/loss ratio to my level. I raid my butt off for resources:))

I try and save every drachma I can.

This past week alone I witnessed a fellow team member lose 75% of his entire army playing Xerxes. Tragic, sad and a loss to the coalition as well.

As stated in the beginning of my post, I mean no disrespect but  I am sorry that you have had these losses. 

I hope your game style adjusts and evolves to this loss (as I have done) and you continue to play the game for "fun" and spending time with your fellow coalition members.

Respectfully

M

Thank you, Mick.

I know my former compatriots - know their mindset.

They might invent whatever waivers - but if some guys believe going after Plarium is worth it (based on "we have 25 million players" bragging, for example) - they will hire experts to prove what is necessary.

They are not in the gambling business OFFICIALLY, but they are acting as if PP was a one-armed bandit. That alone might put their butts on a hot spot. Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules. Even more, they are profiling players and create hurdles according to the favorability ratings. That is a sin - and they should pay for it.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

Drag-Theseus said:

Why do you play PP? Can't you just play regular without hitting PP?

Personally I do't play PP anymore..I play onlyto get 100 points when I see coalition tournament. I haven't play PP like 9 months and now I have the strongest army ever (since I started).. I'm hitting cities, pantheons and caps regular as we decide it in coalitio..everything normal/regular.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

Moreover, as I said, they are hurting me in many other ways, not only via PP

Mick13000 said:

knigochey said:

I cannot take this anymore. Last straw: attacked 18 PP. 

18th was 136 lvl. At least 200 mil res invested. Payout 913 M. Pelts. 

19th was 132.lvl  Payout 153 Promos and 765 Thureos. 

That scenario goes on for many months. Plarium makes sure I have smallest payout in higher positions (if I hit 160+it is aven smaller than with the 130-149 range). 

I don't have enough  troops left to go further with high lvl PP,  and I know that if I hit smaller ones - then the "generous" Plarium will come down to me and give couple thousand ponies/phalanx. Since I am running my friend's city, I know that there are much fewer obstacles than I have.

So tired of the "free game" tricks.

If you feel the same, PM me. 

You might ask where is damage. Well, the "free game" promise implies that you can be competitive, without spending money. You do your best, you perfect your skills - but you have no chance against coiners and those who "know secrets" by being connected to the staff. You spend enormous amount of time - and the gap is even larger. Thus, our losses is priceless time killed by the game, maybe even lost job opportunities (yes, I know game addicts) and depressive mood. All resulting from the certain Plarium "business strategies". 

Hope to hear from you

Mike

    

Knigochey,

With all respect, if I may respond to your post-

We are both in the USA. I state this for clarity reasons in regards to your post heading of a "Time To Find Class Action Lawyers". I state the following and make no claims as a attorney, but as a dis-interested party (legal term) and as a player of the game.

-This action would be difficult and quite expensive on your part. The plarium terms of agreement to play this game is posted:

http://company.plarium.com/terms-of-use/

Please note section 10 and 11. this section alone gives plarium the right, as a corporation to protect itself.

You voluntarily play the game. What Plarium does, or what "You" think it does with regards to people having the "inside information" needed to play and succeed at persian positions may/may not be true. 

In any case, the onus of the responsibility is, on you to get Plarium in court and prove a "beyond a reasonable" doubt that Plarium does what you are stating.

The above being stated?

Well, Persian Positions have a certain mechanics to them no doubt. All tied to agreements, resources, scrolls of each player etc.. Each payout is different. There is no guarantee that you will "win" large. On the contrary, you will, as I have in the past lose a good portion of your army trying to beat the odds!

So I choose to build troops, rather than play Xerxes. On occasion, I will throw 1000 lights at a position and weaken it, only to come back a week or two later and knock it down. No harm, no loss to my army. 

My game style is adapted to "not playing Xerxes because I do not fully understand the so called "system". 

For example-if i have a total of 5000 offensive troops and I use 4000 to get 200 higher troops, my army is only 1200 total count. Where is the gain? Sure..in off/def ratings maybe, but still I went from having a 5000 member army to a 1200 member army. 

Unacceptable to me.

In regards to "Coiners"? Well, that too is an ongoing issue. Plarium "is" a business. Many people think that because of the "Free" part, they might be "owed" something from Plarium? Not the case, my apologies for stating so.

Some people choose to spend, others do not. 

 I play within my financial comfort zone. I used to buy packages, but I have had to align my "real world" needs (including medical issues) with my game life needs. I play 'small", and build lights, I chip away at emporiums thru cooperation with other players so as no attacks on my city. 

My PVP comes from hitting pans and emporiums and staying within an acceptable gain/loss ratio to my level. I raid my butt off for resources:))

I try and save every drachma I can.

This past week alone I witnessed a fellow team member lose 75% of his entire army playing Xerxes. Tragic, sad and a loss to the coalition as well.

As stated in the beginning of my post, I mean no disrespect but  I am sorry that you have had these losses. 

I hope your game style adjusts and evolves to this loss (as I have done) and you continue to play the game for "fun" and spending time with your fellow coalition members.

Respectfully

M

Thank you, Mick.

I know my former compatriots - know their mindset.

They might invent whatever waivers - but if some guys believe going after Plarium is worth it (based on "we have 25 million players" bragging, for example) - they will hire experts to prove what is necessary.

They are not in the gambling business OFFICIALLY, but they are acting as if PP was a one-armed bandit. That alone might put their butts on a hot spot. Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules. Even more, they are profiling players and create hurdles according to the favorability ratings. That is a sin - and they should pay for it.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

knigochey said:

    

Thank you, Mick.

I know my former compatriots - know their mindset.

They might invent whatever waivers - but if some guys believe going after Plarium is worth it (based on "we have 25 million players" bragging, for example) - they will hire experts to prove what is necessary.

They are not in the gambling business OFFICIALLY, but they are acting as if PP was a one-armed bandit. That alone might put their butts on a hot spot. Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules. Even more, they are profiling players and create hurdles according to the favorability ratings. That is a sin - and they should pay for it.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

"Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules"

1.) Yes, Plarium can do this. It comes under the heading/guise of "Intellectual Property" and it is protected under copyright laws both in the US and international community with regard to multi-national companies conducting business and commerce across borders, whether physical or digital. 

"Even more, they are profiling players.."

2.) Sadly, yes, that may be true. (Witness how packages go from $1.90 and go up when you make a purchase here-buy one, the next package goes up higher. Stop buying and the packages come down in price) Your purchases are "profiled". Again, all large companies have a "data mining" system that lets them know what customers are doing, spending etc..

But this is nothing new in the online world. I browse motorcycle web sites and my email blows up with motorcycle advertisements. It is commonly called in some white papers on internet security, the "Datafication" of the general public. Witness data mining and datafication when Clinton's email server was made public. Twitter and Facebook accounts were "mined" for certain words. Two weeks later..the polls were in-she was considered "untrustworthy".

"that means my skills are not the reason."

3.) Well..to be honest, in my personal opinion-No it is not your skills but those of the account you are playing under. Agreements, scrolls, resources etc..all have a maximum bearing on the outcome of any payout. Therefore, it would be different on another account, in my opinion at least.

Hope you keep on here- the game is still fun-excluding all the unknowns in our way.

 Its the people that I enjoy being connected to all over the world.

Best Regards,

M

Mick13000 said:

knigochey said:

    

Thank you, Mick.

I know my former compatriots - know their mindset.

They might invent whatever waivers - but if some guys believe going after Plarium is worth it (based on "we have 25 million players" bragging, for example) - they will hire experts to prove what is necessary.

They are not in the gambling business OFFICIALLY, but they are acting as if PP was a one-armed bandit. That alone might put their butts on a hot spot. Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules. Even more, they are profiling players and create hurdles according to the favorability ratings. That is a sin - and they should pay for it.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

"Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules"

1.) Yes, Plarium can do this. It comes under the heading/guise of "Intellectual Property" and it is protected under copyright laws both in the US and international community with regard to multi-national companies conducting business and commerce across borders, whether physical or digital. 

"Even more, they are profiling players.."

2.) Sadly, yes, that may be true. (Witness how packages go from $1.90 and go up when you make a purchase here-buy one, the next package goes up higher. Stop buying and the packages come down in price) Your purchases are "profiled". Again, all large companies have a "data mining" system that lets them know what customers are doing, spending etc..

But this is nothing new in the online world. I browse motorcycle web sites and my email blows up with motorcycle advertisements. It is commonly called in some white papers on internet security, the "Datafication" of the general public. Witness data mining and datafication when Clinton's email server was made public. Twitter and Facebook accounts were "mined" for certain words. Two weeks later..the polls were in-she was considered "untrustworthy".

"that means my skills are not the reason."

3.) Well..to be honest, in my personal opinion-No it is not your skills but those of the account you are playing under. Agreements, scrolls, resources etc..all have a maximum bearing on the outcome of any payout. Therefore, it would be different on another account, in my opinion at least.

Hope you keep on here- the game is still fun-excluding all the unknowns in our way.

 Its the people that I enjoy being connected to all over the world.

Best Regards,

M

There is little if any fun knowing you get manipulated and cheated. Imagine feeling you cannot risk losing troops as you have to invest everything in order to get 50-60 mil troops Plarium is hiding from you. Anger and disappointment - not fun.

1. That is Plarium admins' "argument" and I view it as moot. Plarium repeatedly compared PP to banking. Who would buy into banks "explanation" that they cannot tell you when you get your money back, because their software is "proprietary"? Who cares about their codes. You are not addressing the core issue: they are not allowed to engage in gambling, so we have to be able to predict possible results the way we do PVP, for example

2. Discrimination against players has no excuse

3. After many months of observations, any coincidence was excluded. One grew from lvl 27 to 85, while another from 60+ to 88. The former is doing relatively well in PP - with good payouts at least 2-3 times more frequently than the latter. And that is despite the fact that the latter earned 50% more PP points

Three are several points worth mentioning when we speak about PPs.

Calculation of the reward is performed according to the special algorithm. Rewards are received according to your losses at previous PPs. After you reach a certain point you get a prize in Units. This is why you do not receive the reward at each PP. It is normal. Units you send to each PP are counted. You will be given the prize automatically by the system once you hit a certain PP and receive your deserved bonus.

Apart from Units, you receive Experience and PP Tournament points, etc. at the PPs. Those things are very important and help to advance in the game. Please do not forget about it when you estimate your PP rewards. Another and one of the most important aspects of rewards is General Gear. PPs gives items that enhance Units' strength or can be destroyed to upgrade other Items. Attacking PPs of higher levels gives more chances to receive rarer, better General Items.

You receive Experience points for all battles at PPs and PP Tournaments points for successful attacks. Good tactic when doing PPs is to send Units to them when XP Tournament is ongoing and to finish them off when the PP Tournament starts. It will allow to receive Tournament points in both events for doing the same activity and to get the most out of the situation.

As the level of your PPs grows, it takes more time and effort to receive big prize. Rewards increase too. This is why it is important to consider the aforementioned points and choose the strategy that fits your playing style.

Alyona, what you are saying is true, but that is basics which  a 165 lvl PP player  obviously knows already. 

Yes, there is some value in XP points, but tht is pennies to compare to countless millions invested in PP. 

I can testify that something is profoundly wrong with the Knigochey's account. Looks like he is discriminated if not targeted by Palrium. 

"you do not receive the reward at each PP" --- that sounds almost offensive :) 

You were told about 20+ fruitless raids

Mullenz said:

Alyona, what you are saying is true, but that is basics which  a 165 lvl PP player  obviously knows already. 

Yes, there is some value in XP points, but tht is pennies to compare to countless millions invested in PP. 

I can testify that something is profoundly wrong with the Knigochey's account. Looks like he is discriminated if not targeted by Palrium. 

"you do not receive the reward at each PP" --- that sounds almost offensive :) 

You were told about 20+ fruitless raids

I'm sure you know it very well that your reward depends on your previous reward. And if it was big enough, it may take even more than 20 PPs to get the next one. Also, it matters a lot which levels you're attacking. 

Anyway, you're right. There's nothing new I could say to an experienced PP player. You have a lot of experience already. The only issue that may be present is calculations. players often rely on some specific data posted by other players that may be incorrect. For example, Unit "value". And that's where the most issues with PPs come from. Real formulas, values and calculations may differ from players expectations.

But since I cannot offer anything specific (I'm not allowed to share any numbers or formulas), the only advice I can give is "try again". 

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:

Mullenz said:

Alyona, what you are saying is true, but that is basics which  a 165 lvl PP player  obviously knows already. 

Yes, there is some value in XP points, but tht is pennies to compare to countless millions invested in PP. 

I can testify that something is profoundly wrong with the Knigochey's account. Looks like he is discriminated if not targeted by Palrium. 

"you do not receive the reward at each PP" --- that sounds almost offensive :) 

You were told about 20+ fruitless raids

I'm sure you know it very well that your reward depends on your previous reward. And if it was big enough, it may take even more than 20 PPs to get the next one. Also, it matters a lot which levels you're attacking. 

Anyway, you're right. There's nothing new I could say to an experienced PP player. You have a lot of experience already. The only issue that may be present is calculations. players often rely on some specific data posted by other players that may be incorrect. For example, Unit "value". And that's where the most issues with PPs come from. Real formulas, values and calculations may differ from players expectations.

But since I cannot offer anything specific (I'm not allowed to share any numbers or formulas), the only advice I can give is "try again". 

Alyona, I only can once again express my condolence; your job prompts you to defend a very bad practice aka arbitrary rule. No matter what formulas are, if you doubled your last payout in "investments" and hit high lvl PP, with horrible results - you know the game is rigged and your patience runs thin. You want those who have deliberately ruined your fun and been stealing your time for ages to be kept accountable. 

ItBurnsWhenIPvP said:

The players with 50k horses are the ones who abused the persians a while back and took advantage of a glitch..There is no way anyone could have that amount unles they cheated or are plarium employess..It doesnt take rocket science to know that.

Please, don't tell me that the guys with 50,000 agemas are just lucky or "smart" - they are in some way involved in plarium cheating. And any thorough investigation will reveal that. 

The players with 50k horses are the ones who abused the persians a while back and took advantage of a glitch..There is no way anyone could have that amount unles they cheated or are plarium employess..It doesnt take rocket science to know that.

knigochey said:

I cannot take this anymore. Last straw: attacked 18 PP. 

18th was 136 lvl. At least 200 mil res invested. Payout 913 M. Pelts. 

19th was 132.lvl  Payout 153 Promos and 765 Thureos. 

That scenario goes on for many months. Plarium makes sure I have smallest payout in higher positions (if I hit 160+it is aven smaller than with the 130-149 range). 

I don't have enough  troops left to go further with high lvl PP,  and I know that if I hit smaller ones - then the "generous" Plarium will come down to me and give couple thousand ponies/phalanx. Since I am running my friend's city, I know that there are much fewer obstacles than I have.

So tired of the "free game" tricks.

If you feel the same, PM me. 

You might ask where is damage. Well, the "free game" promise implies that you can be competitive, without spending money. You do your best, you perfect your skills - but you have no chance against coiners and those who "know secrets" by being connected to the staff. You spend enormous amount of time - and the gap is even larger. Thus, our losses is priceless time killed by the game, maybe even lost job opportunities (yes, I know game addicts) and depressive mood. All resulting from the certain Plarium "business strategies". 

Hope to hear from you

Mike

I totally agree. and that's how these companies work. However, in reality all they really want is your money. You can only upgrade to certain levels before having to use upgrade sketches to advance further. These are needed for almost everything now. To buy these you need drachmas and lots of them. Even with discounts this will take an age to collect and can be costly if your units are attacked while collecting them. People want to advance quicker and fall for the pay to play offers. What starts out as a one off ends up happening on a regular basis and to some becomes an addiction. People have found that if they ignore the offers for so long they are enticed with eve better offers and end up paying out again. Plarium don't care about those who play fairly and without money, this isn't good business practice if they are not making money. Plarium, like many other gambling corporations have sold their souls to the devil.

lsolway74 said:

knigochey said:

I cannot take this anymore. Last straw: attacked 18 PP. 

18th was 136 lvl. At least 200 mil res invested. Payout 913 M. Pelts. 

19th was 132.lvl  Payout 153 Promos and 765 Thureos. 

That scenario goes on for many months. Plarium makes sure I have smallest payout in higher positions (if I hit 160+it is aven smaller than with the 130-149 range). 

I don't have enough  troops left to go further with high lvl PP,  and I know that if I hit smaller ones - then the "generous" Plarium will come down to me and give couple thousand ponies/phalanx. Since I am running my friend's city, I know that there are much fewer obstacles than I have.

So tired of the "free game" tricks.

If you feel the same, PM me. 

You might ask where is damage. Well, the "free game" promise implies that you can be competitive, without spending money. You do your best, you perfect your skills - but you have no chance against coiners and those who "know secrets" by being connected to the staff. You spend enormous amount of time - and the gap is even larger. Thus, our losses is priceless time killed by the game, maybe even lost job opportunities (yes, I know game addicts) and depressive mood. All resulting from the certain Plarium "business strategies". 

Hope to hear from you

Mike

I totally agree. and that's how these companies work. However, in reality all they really want is your money. You can only upgrade to certain levels before having to use upgrade sketches to advance further. These are needed for almost everything now. To buy these you need drachmas and lots of them. Even with discounts this will take an age to collect and can be costly if your units are attacked while collecting them. People want to advance quicker and fall for the pay to play offers. What starts out as a one off ends up happening on a regular basis and to some becomes an addiction. People have found that if they ignore the offers for so long they are enticed with eve better offers and end up paying out again. Plarium don't care about those who play fairly and without money, this isn't good business practice if they are not making money. Plarium, like many other gambling corporations have sold their souls to the devil.

I agree with everything you are saying. And I have no objection to plarium making money - it doesn't make any sense to run a business, without having profit. My point is that Plaruim crosses the line between normal business practices and cheating. 

1. The game had been advertised as "free", but at this point, without spending money, it is virtually impossible to remain compatible, even ifyou are a "full time" player, spending many hours per day.

2, the Plarium licence doesn't allow gambling

3, Players profiling based discrimination is illegal

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:

knigochey said:

Please, don't tell me that the guys with 50,000 agemas are just lucky or "smart" - they are in some way involved in plarium cheating. And any thorough investigation will reveal that. 

There's no way to cheat in this game. But there is a possibility that they're using in-app purchases.

And how are we supposed to believe that "no way"? Did you personally write the codes? Not to mention, if "in-app purchases" make a player a monster nobody can compete with - that is already cheating as the game that promised to be "free". The very reason I and many others stopped spending money is that we indicated dishonest treatment on the part of plarium. 

Let's talk about numbers. Wth "discount", one agema is "worth" 100 drachmas. but you can only buy 50 on that price. Thus, 50k agmas would cost 8 million drachmas. As 100,000 drachmas  cost $600, the whole stable would require $48,000. But that is only ponies. Other troops and features would cost additional money. And we all know that there is a lot of supply "after market". I suspect that greedy plarium, unwilling to pay decent money to its employees, is turning a blind eye on those "sales".