Snowgoon said:

Why are offense units defending with their OFFENSE values?

That's by design. Sucks big time, but it's been like that since the day one.

Snowgoon said:

This Fireship should have killed a lot more,

Why?

Snowgoon said:

and I should get a lot more than 72 pvp points

Crowbar said:

Snowgoon said:

Why are offense units defending with their OFFENSE values?

That's by design. Sucks big time, but it's been like that since the day one

Is it by design or is it a bug?
Many bugs have been with us since day one, like the phantom spoils around our haven beaches.
We collect them but cannot spend them, and they vanish when we refresh. This is not 'by design'

We would like to see an official response

The defense strength of a Frigate is 90, so a fireship should kill 140 Frigates, not 10
Brethren Frigates are even weaker

Crowbar said:

The "one-to-one damage ratio" from the help (see the first link in Snowgoon's post) plagued me for a long time what it meant, but it means exactly that: 1 point of FS's 12.6k for 1 power point of a unit.

I don't think it refers to Power Points, you are fudging the issue
It is pointless jumping to conclusions here, we need an official response from the devs
Maybe I should transfer this post to the Stormfall Forum so that someone can ask the Elite squad lol
PToF does not have Elite Membership - another thing denied to us

One-to-one damage ratio simply means that one offense point will always kill one defense point (base values)

We see this every day on Prizes

I sent 180 Marauders to a Level 20 Caravel - https://prnt.sc/gb2m9l

180 Marauders @ 70 offense = 12,600 Pirate Offense

14 Subs @ 400 = 5,600
11 Gunboats @ 300 = 3,300
2 MoW @ 380 = 760
12 Grenadier @ 130 = 1,560
26 Bonnies @ 20 = 520
22 Skirmishers @ 30 = 660

12.400 Pirate Defense killed

1649 Prize Ranking
280 Experience Points

12,600 Pirate Offense kills 12,400 Pirate Defense - nothing to do with power points, and gives a lot more than 72XP

We are being robbed by fireships

#Snowgoon  -  stop being a troll 

what do you want ? game rules made by YOU ? 

Snowgoon, you're very knowledgeable of Plarium's other games. How do their versions of Fireships work?

Nightmare said:

#Snowgoon  -  stop being a troll 

what do you want ? game rules made by YOU ? 

BTW i saw your BH your haven and your diary, its pathetic....maybe you can start playing the game and not trolling about everything you dont like for a change ....

I'm not the troll around here
I don't make the game rules, but I dont break the rules either, and expect plarium to respect their own rules

Plarium have broken the rules of combat by allowing juggs and frigates to use their OFFENSE stats while defending against fireships .... so why is everyone trying to defend this blatant breach of trust?
Juggs and SoL have 93.5 defense and Frigates and Brigs have 90

Hitting offense trapped in their own haven should be like shooting fish in a barrel -  http://prntscr.com/gbktgc  -  If a level 94 coiner teleports in and starts messing with my bh then he should expect to lose half his fleet and armada from fs attacks, but plarium have made it too easy for them

if plarium believe that fs are too powerful then they should never added them to the game, but they prefer to dilute the effect to protect their coiners

It makes me sick that they are allowed to get away with this crap for years, and nobody cares

and now that plarium have sold us out to a casino for 500 million you can all expect things to get a lot worse

http://www.jpost.com/Business-and-Innovation/Aristocrat-buys-Israeli-social-gaming-company-Plarium-for-500-million-502053

Snowgoon said:

Hitting offense trapped in their own haven should be like shooting fish in a barrel

I agree with that (I did write "sucks big time" for the current system), and you obviously agree that it's by design, and not a bug.

Snowgoon said:

they prefer to dilute the effect to protect their coiners

Same as etched levels of Infirmary affecting only off, not def (among many other features already mentioned). Coiners do, by definition, make Plarium's profit. Non-coiners can accept it or not play this game by this rules. It's not a democracy. It's Plarium's game and they get to decide what the rules are; we can only like them or not like them and act accordingly.

Anyway, I did ask for a CM to come here and tell you that it's not a bug.

Hi there, guys!

1) Fire Ship is a special game feature. It deals damage differently than other Units do. 
2) I've investigated this Battle and there are no bugs or mistakes. The XP Points were counted in the way they should.
3) As Fire Ships are the unique game feature, you need to learn its mechanics via your experience and Battles. Unfortunately, I can't provide you with exact mechanics formula. Please, try different tactics and look for guides on this subject.

Sergey Kryvorotchenko said:

Hi there, guys!

1) Fire Ship is a special game feature. It deals damage differently than other Units do. 
2) I've investigated this Battle and there are no bugs or mistakes. The XP Points were counted in the way they should.
3) As Fire Ships are the unique game feature, you need to learn its mechanics via your experience and Battles. Unfortunately, I can't provide you with exact mechanics formula. Please, try different tactics and look for guides on this subject.

So let me see if I got this right

To completely nullify the effect of fireships we should defend our haven with 315 marauders and send all defense units to the harbour? You are telling us that defense units are worthless? Think we already knew that

If we start doing that then fireships will be OBSOLETE within a month and nobody will ever buy them again, and pvp will die?

Great business model, plarium

Snowgoon said:

To completely nullify the effect of fireships we should defend our haven with 315 marauders and send all defense units to the harbour?

That's exactly what I've been saying about Fireships for a long time now, and you (indirectly) called me a liar for it (for example, "you are fudging the issue" and "we need an official response from the devs" above). I'm assuming that apologies are not your thing?

If you have def out, having loads of expendable off with it (like thousands of Mars) is a the only way to dilute the power of Fireships, because a) they kill less def, and b) the PvPs drop significantly (like I told you in my first post here).

Getting Mars to level 30 or higher is quite useful, since off's levels 20+ improve def stats more than off stats. In other words, get your expendable off units to be as fit for normal defence as possible, and they'll be (kinda) fit for defending your haven against blocks, raids (because of def stats), and Fireships (because they are off). If that makes no sense, don't look at me. I didn't make that system up; I only noticed it.

Still, turtling and spending remains the best defence.

Crowbar said:

 you (indirectly) called me a liar for it (for example, "you are fudging the issue" 

I am sorry if I annoyed you, but I never suggested that you were lying. I actually have  a great deal of respect for you.

I normally choose my words with great care and often edit my posts in an attempt to avoid misinterpretations like this

"I don't think it refers to Power Points, you are fudging the issue"

Your use of power points is different to mine - I simply meant that referring to power points was fudging the issue.
One marauder is worth one power point. One juggernaut is worth 42 power points. Power Points are one-fortieth of unit stats, and we can see this in BH Adventures.

I train one marauder and get one power point towards the adventure.
Power points also seem to be used for xp, pvp and tournament points, but every unit has 2 power point values, one for off and one for def
Other games have weekly and monthly quests and we can see the different power point values there, but not here. If I send bonnies to die at red prizes then I will get reduced power points than when sent to green prizes

I still believe that the original team of game designers made a simple mistake when creating fireships, but they no longer work for plarium so we can never know for sure - I do not believe it was intentional - they would never intentionally break combat rules like this.
I trust the original game designers, but have less faith in game developers

Perhaps one day the devs will reconsider and allow is to kill more offense units 'like fish in a barrel'

Snowgoon said:

I am sorry if I annoyed you

I'm not annoyed, but you're getting more anti-Plarium aggressive lately, which is a sad change from a pleasant and quite knowledgeable player I know since Kabam days. I hope you don't expect the company to change its ways because you're expressing anger in increasingly hostile manner towards CMs and, to lesser extent, mods like me.

Snowgoon said:

One marauder is worth one power point. One juggernaut is worth 42 power points. Power Points are one-fortieth of unit stats, and we can see this in BH Adventures.
I train one marauder and get one power point towards the adventure.

And one Fireship kills exactly 12600 of these points. For off units, it's 1/40 of the default off score (no bonuses), for def units, it's 1/40 of the default def score (no bonuses), which is an arithmetic mean of 4 def scores that each unit has.

Btw, I don't know what do Fireships fight against scouts. I remember (but might be misremembering) a single FS killing over 1k of FDs, and that's far beyond 12600/30.

Snowgoon said:

I still believe that the original team of game designers made a simple mistake when creating fireships, but they no longer work for plarium so we can never know for sure - I do not believe it was intentional - they would never intentionally break combat rules like this.

That's why I asked you about other Plarium games. It's unlikely that different teams of developers broke exactly the same thing that came from the same design, isn't it?

Crowbar said:

Snowgoon said:

I am sorry if I annoyed you

I'm not annoyed, but you're getting more anti-Plarium aggressive lately, which is a sad change from a pleasant and quite knowledgeable player I know since Kabam days

Every time I see new upgrades for other games which are neglected by PToF it makes me angry, and this has been going on for over 12 months.
Seems like deliberate sabotage to me

Like the new League/Brotherhood Chests which contain random free gifts every day for every bh member
They also added new Legendary reward packs to bh adventures, so they have 5 instead of 4   http://prntscr.com/gckjp1

Snowgoon said:

Every time I see new upgrades for other games which are neglected by PToF it makes me angry, and this has been going on for over 12 months.

Yeah, but no one on the forum has anything to do with that. ;-) And you might be a bit short with "12 months". I'm sure it's been over a year since I first heard of "heroes", whatever that is.

Snowgoon said:

Seems like deliberate sabotage to me

I vote incompetence.

Maybe the short term money grab will end, now that they got bought, and we finally get proper fixes and features. Wishful thinking, I know...

So, how do "Fireships" work in other games?

Plarium have a history of this behaviour

Many of my Brotherhood on Sirens Strait server came with me from Kongregate server

After months of neglect, with no updates, no settlements, no ruby coves etc we all logged in one day to find that plarium had pulled the plug with no warning.
Old Yahoo and Google+ players had similar problems and many Kabam players could not transfer their havens to plarium servers

Not saying that will happen here, but I fear for the future of this particular game because they have made no attempt to provide iOS and Android versions for Mobile and Tablet, and have seriously neglected all development here on the browser versions - which we know are in jeopardy from the imminent shutdown of flashplayer
Even the facebook players are getting nervous lol

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/12-kongregate-multiplayer-games/topics/436413-pirates-tides-of-fortune-shutdown

Yeah, they did a similar thing with Yahoo players on Kabam. It was a nice change to that rule when they moved us from Kabam to Plarium servers. I expected another genocide of players.

New Fireship - https://prnt.sc/gg9gq1

337 xp and offense ranking - https://prnt.sc/gg9ikq

1x Scallywags 50
1x Gunners Mate 150
1x Pardoned Zepp 45.25
2x Flying Dutch @ 29 = 58
13x Submarine @ 587.5 = 7,637.5
3x Gunboat @ 400 = 1,200
5x MoW @ 415 = 2,075
2x Aquanaut @ 150 = 300
!x Breth Cuirass 160
1X Grenadier 150
1x Cuirassier 150
62x Bonnies @ 19 = 1,178
13x Skirm @ 22 = 286
4x Turtle @ 60 = 240

Total defense killed = 13,679.75

Approx Power Point Value = 342

XP Points earned = 337 (not 72)

Proving that Fireships were designed to kill defense, but protect offense.

More evidence of game imbalance and blatant bias against defense.

Offense units are protected beacuse they are allowed to use their offense stats when defending against fireships.
Fireship users are penalized for attacking offense units because fewer units are killed and they receive reduced xp, pvp, offense ranking and tournament points.

For example, one sub has 587.5 defense (so is easy to kill) and is worth 14.6875 power points

One Juggernaut uses 1680 offense (so is harder to kill) but is only worth 2.3375 power points (not 42)
and up to 50% can be revived for free