Dracos said:

My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 

Nice  and maybe sid. pikemans..they are in good in battle against xerxes army because they are light inf. and their value is solid too :)

Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:

My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 

Nice  and maybe sid. pikemans..they are in good in battle against xerxes army because they are light inf. and their value is solid too :)

Anything in the carthage line of troops is seemingly made for PP use exclusively due to their high resource to power point ratio in their respective unit type. However Knigochey was complaing? that you can't build enough light inf for PVP and PP which is simply wrong since pikes don't offer as much bank filling as gold shields and carthage cav so by building those two you can free up the light inf training for PVP and not really have much of a problem with making a PVP and PP army at the same time.

Dracos said:

Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:

My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 

Nice  and maybe sid. pikemans..they are in good in battle against xerxes army because they are light inf. and their value is solid too :)

Anything in the carthage line of troops is seemingly made for PP use exclusively due to their high resource to power point ratio in their respective unit type. However Knigochey was complaing? that you can't build enough light inf for PVP and PP which is simply wrong since pikes don't offer as much bank filling as gold shields and carthage cav so by building those two you can free up the light inf training for PVP and not really have much of a problem with making a PVP and PP army at the same time.

I am not "complaining" , I am just contributing to SOBER analysis of the situation. LI doesn't replace HI but rather complements, especially if you participate in PP tournaments. You need EVERY type of troops to do well in PP. Let's say  your scouting jav told you about the Persan def: 800  50 10000 5000. To use Golden shields for that would be stupid in my book. Pikes would help a lot. You need every tool available. But you cannot build  enough infantry to hit dozens high lvl PP at one day, so you have to sacrifice phalanx and cavalry, too. That was my point. Do you have anything to object?   

Dracos said:

knigochey said:

Dracos said:

Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:

  

Are you after a high bank or doing the PP faster? Using carthage cav and gold shields fills the bank more than pikes would. The position has a lot of cav or heavy inf? Even better since you'll need more to finish it thus filling the bank even more. If you want to clear the positions fast then just send your regular PVP army and you'll get all those juicy PP points with a reduced reward or you can take your time and build the high resource to power point ratio troops and eventually get a large payout. What I've been saying this whole time is that your initial situation was the inability to have enough light inf for PP and PVP thus I offered you a different view, treat PP as a bank and focus on filling it which means not using pikes and thus you have light inf for PVP. Doing that is most efficient in the respective ways of doing PP and PVP.

You misinterpreted my words again, brother. Again: unless we are talking about lvll 50 positions, but rather 150-170, infantry, even combined with Carths is not enough to even hit one position. The bulk of the PP striking force are and will always be  heavy troops: phalanx and heavy horses: Agemas and Macs that we get from earlier payouts. 

Speaking of LI and HI production in comparison, you apparently forgot that while Pikes are weaker, they are much faster to give birth to. every 8m55s vs.  GS every 40m10s. Correspondingly,  on the basic lvl, we produce 500 power in both houses. If we are talking of resources consumption, 1 hour Pikes production gives 9000 vs 8000 GS. Thus, Pikes consume more res then Shields - so they are BETTER fo PP  They only problem - not enough. 

.  And I usually don't do more than 2k PVP points, this is most efficient range plus you don't take too much from PP

Dracos said:

knigochey said:

Dracos said:

Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:

  

Are you after a high bank or doing the PP faster? Using carthage cav and gold shields fills the bank more than pikes would. The position has a lot of cav or heavy inf? Even better since you'll need more to finish it thus filling the bank even more. If you want to clear the positions fast then just send your regular PVP army and you'll get all those juicy PP points with a reduced reward or you can take your time and build the high resource to power point ratio troops and eventually get a large payout. What I've been saying this whole time is that your initial situation was the inability to have enough light inf for PP and PVP thus I offered you a different view, treat PP as a bank and focus on filling it which means not using pikes and thus you have light inf for PVP. Doing that is most efficient in the respective ways of doing PP and PVP.

You misinterpreted my words again, brother. Again: unless we are talking about lvll 50 positions, but rather 150-170, infantry, even combined with Carths is not enough to even hit one position. The bulk of the PP striking force are and will always be  heavy troops: phalanx and heavy horses: Agemas and Macs that we get from earlier payouts. 

Speaking of LI and HI production in comparison, you apparently forgot that while Pikes are weaker, they are much faster to give birth to. every 8m55s vs.  GS every 40m10s. Correspondingly,  on the basic lvl, we produce 500 power in both houses. If we are talking of resources consumption, 1 hour Pikes production gives 9000 vs 8000 GS. Thus, Pikes consume more res then Shields - so they are BETTER fo PP  They only problem - not enough. 

.  And I usually don't do more than 2k PVP points, this is most efficient range plus you don't take too much from PP

Mullenz said:

Dracos said:

knigochey said:

Dracos said:

Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:

  

Are you after a high bank or doing the PP faster? Using carthage cav and gold shields fills the bank more than pikes would. The position has a lot of cav or heavy inf? Even better since you'll need more to finish it thus filling the bank even more. If you want to clear the positions fast then just send your regular PVP army and you'll get all those juicy PP points with a reduced reward or you can take your time and build the high resource to power point ratio troops and eventually get a large payout. What I've been saying this whole time is that your initial situation was the inability to have enough light inf for PP and PVP thus I offered you a different view, treat PP as a bank and focus on filling it which means not using pikes and thus you have light inf for PVP. Doing that is most efficient in the respective ways of doing PP and PVP.

You misinterpreted my words again, brother. Again: unless we are talking about lvll 50 positions, but rather 150-170, infantry, even combined with Carths is not enough to even hit one position. The bulk of the PP striking force are and will always be  heavy troops: phalanx and heavy horses: Agemas and Macs that we get from earlier payouts. 

Speaking of LI and HI production in comparison, you apparently forgot that while Pikes are weaker, they are much faster to give birth to. every 8m55s vs.  GS every 40m10s. Correspondingly,  on the basic lvl, we produce 500 power in both houses. If we are talking of resources consumption, 1 hour Pikes production gives 9000 vs 8000 GS. Thus, Pikes consume more res then Shields - so they are BETTER fo PP  They only problem - not enough. 

.  And I usually don't do more than 2k PVP points, this is most efficient range plus you don't take too much from PP

My point is simple, I do admit that GS is worse than Pikes for bank filling as I just did the ratio but carthage cav is better than pikes. Somewhere throughout this page Knigochey was talking about not having enough lights for PVP and PP to which I suggested not building pikes and instead the more expensive carthage units. By building carthage cav then you can build javs/swords for PVP. I understand that higher up in PP you will face more phalanx and cav units but PP isn't something you go about killing a position or two every day once you get up high unless you spend or you want to use your regular army. For the purpose of getting a larger bank using carthage cav will always be the best choice. Obviously if you want to just kill the position faster then you build pikes or Gs or even swords since they give the most bang for your buck but then the payouts won't be as good as they could be.

Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build

In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:

Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build

In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.

Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

I'm  the only one wich thinks that those positions are rigged  that us  normal players to invest  more and more money  ?  

After i lost 120 agema  ,200 macedonians  ,250 imperial prom , 60 imperial horsmen  ..and a lot of other offensive troups i only recived like half i lost in the next days ..and had to spend  drachmas to revive my army  :( 

knigochey said:

IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:

Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build

In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.

Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

This "40.5" on the ScreenShot is MI/H => MIles Per Hour => Unit Speed not  Production Time

http://prntscr.com/fe198b

knigochey said:

IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:

Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build

In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.

Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

This "40.5" on the ScreenShot is MI/H => MIles Per Hour => Unit Speed not  Production Time

http://prntscr.com/fe198b

IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:

knigochey said:

IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:

Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build

In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.

Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

This "40.5" on the ScreenShot is MI/H => MIles Per Hour => Unit Speed not  Production Time

http://prntscr.com/fe198b

Yes, you are right. But that even proves the point was made: Carths and infantry are not enough to play PP on high levels 

there   really is no reason at all to play pp once you have 20 mil def and 20 mil off,  unless you want points. or have 150k in lights and heavies to burn off.  the only point is for a conversion of weak troops to large troops.     also  if you have precise attacks  you can stretch your troops out as far as possible.      a calculator is the only way to do this,  if you are not using a calculator you are wasting your troop units.   so  think about what the point is   of PP   and know the  rewards  are capped.

my noramal payouts  are 20 mil in def    the highest I usually see is 34 mil.    for off   the usual payouts are 15-20 mil    the highest I get  are 54mil.

if anyone has better  payouts  I would like to see them!!!   seriously.

the bank is one total bank.     so don't expect large payouts on low levels   levels are 1-170.    so the  higher  you  play the bigger the reward.    stay in the same  range of positions  and this will happen.  if you lose your army with no rewards  wait until you can knock down one more position in that range  don't  play  lower ones  until you get your payout.

also if you don't have 100k or more in lights and heavies     or at least 20 mil in phalanx and cav, you will not get big payout.    but that is the  reason there is no reason to play them,   what you put into them you get back out of them.  it is an upgrade in units  not a bigger army.     which  makes this aspect silly.

also  with  a  very good calculator     you can use your small winnings    and most of the time   if done right   it will add up to your  10% payback.       that is   a trick  to allow you to play  everyday...  

https://gyazo.com/16dbefcd67d5d470b24bca4798fbe563

I play a lot.   this from this week  alone.

https://gyazo.com/cc845fbbeb5f562a9cbed79a642d8b47

https://gyazo.com/8a7075f6b761a90aa9ef90d4fffeb942

Can you actually ever "win" or gain troops from playing PPs? I was under the impression that you invest troops = resources, and then you get back (often) BETTER troops and you get rewards from tournaments if you do them at the right time. 

But you always pay an interest to the bank, meaning you actually SPEND troops playing them? 

henrik_rothen said:

Can you actually ever "win" or gain troops from playing PPs? I was under the impression that you invest troops = resources, and then you get back (often) BETTER troops and you get rewards from tournaments if you do them at the right time. 

But you always pay an interest to the bank, meaning you actually SPEND troops playing them? 

Or are you saying you can gain more troops than you lose, if you do it right? No other circumstances considered?

you can win if you play right but only untill you have reached your first full payout on lvl 170...