Why do you play PP? Can't you just play regular without hitting PP?

Thank you, Mick.

I know my former compatriots - know their mindset.

They might invent whatever waivers - but if some guys believe going after Plarium is worth it (based on "we have 25 million players" bragging, for example) - they will hire experts to prove what is necessary.

They are not in the gambling business OFFICIALLY, but they are acting as if PP was a one-armed bandit. That alone might put their butts on a hot spot. Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules. Even more, they are profiling players and create hurdles according to the favorability ratings. That is a sin - and they should pay for it.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

knigochey said:

    

Thank you, Mick.

I know my former compatriots - know their mindset.

They might invent whatever waivers - but if some guys believe going after Plarium is worth it (based on "we have 25 million players" bragging, for example) - they will hire experts to prove what is necessary.

They are not in the gambling business OFFICIALLY, but they are acting as if PP was a one-armed bandit. That alone might put their butts on a hot spot. Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules. Even more, they are profiling players and create hurdles according to the favorability ratings. That is a sin - and they should pay for it.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

"Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules"

1.) Yes, Plarium can do this. It comes under the heading/guise of "Intellectual Property" and it is protected under copyright laws both in the US and international community with regard to multi-national companies conducting business and commerce across borders, whether physical or digital. 

"Even more, they are profiling players.."

2.) Sadly, yes, that may be true. (Witness how packages go from $1.90 and go up when you make a purchase here-buy one, the next package goes up higher. Stop buying and the packages come down in price) Your purchases are "profiled". Again, all large companies have a "data mining" system that lets them know what customers are doing, spending etc..

But this is nothing new in the online world. I browse motorcycle web sites and my email blows up with motorcycle advertisements. It is commonly called in some white papers on internet security, the "Datafication" of the general public. Witness data mining and datafication when Clinton's email server was made public. Twitter and Facebook accounts were "mined" for certain words. Two weeks later..the polls were in-she was considered "untrustworthy".

"that means my skills are not the reason."

3.) Well..to be honest, in my personal opinion-No it is not your skills but those of the account you are playing under. Agreements, scrolls, resources etc..all have a maximum bearing on the outcome of any payout. Therefore, it would be different on another account, in my opinion at least.

Hope you keep on here- the game is still fun-excluding all the unknowns in our way.

 Its the people that I enjoy being connected to all over the world.

Best Regards,

M

Mick13000 said:

knigochey said:

    

Thank you, Mick.

I know my former compatriots - know their mindset.

They might invent whatever waivers - but if some guys believe going after Plarium is worth it (based on "we have 25 million players" bragging, for example) - they will hire experts to prove what is necessary.

They are not in the gambling business OFFICIALLY, but they are acting as if PP was a one-armed bandit. That alone might put their butts on a hot spot. Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules. Even more, they are profiling players and create hurdles according to the favorability ratings. That is a sin - and they should pay for it.

I would not do PP for myself, but started it for the sake of our coal - Ecumene tournament. Now I have to at least get back my losses. And admins keep telling me that "you are going to have your big payout vert soon". The funny thing, I do much better on the account that is not on my name - that means my skills are not the reason.

"Not only they are refusing to open about the "rules" of PP but they have been changing those rules"

1.) Yes, Plarium can do this. It comes under the heading/guise of "Intellectual Property" and it is protected under copyright laws both in the US and international community with regard to multi-national companies conducting business and commerce across borders, whether physical or digital. 

"Even more, they are profiling players.."

2.) Sadly, yes, that may be true. (Witness how packages go from $1.90 and go up when you make a purchase here-buy one, the next package goes up higher. Stop buying and the packages come down in price) Your purchases are "profiled". Again, all large companies have a "data mining" system that lets them know what customers are doing, spending etc..

But this is nothing new in the online world. I browse motorcycle web sites and my email blows up with motorcycle advertisements. It is commonly called in some white papers on internet security, the "Datafication" of the general public. Witness data mining and datafication when Clinton's email server was made public. Twitter and Facebook accounts were "mined" for certain words. Two weeks later..the polls were in-she was considered "untrustworthy".

"that means my skills are not the reason."

3.) Well..to be honest, in my personal opinion-No it is not your skills but those of the account you are playing under. Agreements, scrolls, resources etc..all have a maximum bearing on the outcome of any payout. Therefore, it would be different on another account, in my opinion at least.

Hope you keep on here- the game is still fun-excluding all the unknowns in our way.

 Its the people that I enjoy being connected to all over the world.

Best Regards,

M

There is little if any fun knowing you get manipulated and cheated. Imagine feeling you cannot risk losing troops as you have to invest everything in order to get 50-60 mil troops Plarium is hiding from you. Anger and disappointment - not fun.

1. That is Plarium admins' "argument" and I view it as moot. Plarium repeatedly compared PP to banking. Who would buy into banks "explanation" that they cannot tell you when you get your money back, because their software is "proprietary"? Who cares about their codes. You are not addressing the core issue: they are not allowed to engage in gambling, so we have to be able to predict possible results the way we do PVP, for example

2. Discrimination against players has no excuse

3. After many months of observations, any coincidence was excluded. One grew from lvl 27 to 85, while another from 60+ to 88. The former is doing relatively well in PP - with good payouts at least 2-3 times more frequently than the latter. And that is despite the fact that the latter earned 50% more PP points

Alyona, what you are saying is true, but that is basics which  a 165 lvl PP player  obviously knows already. 

Yes, there is some value in XP points, but tht is pennies to compare to countless millions invested in PP. 

I can testify that something is profoundly wrong with the Knigochey's account. Looks like he is discriminated if not targeted by Palrium. 

"you do not receive the reward at each PP" --- that sounds almost offensive :) 

You were told about 20+ fruitless raids

Mullenz said:

Alyona, what you are saying is true, but that is basics which  a 165 lvl PP player  obviously knows already. 

Yes, there is some value in XP points, but tht is pennies to compare to countless millions invested in PP. 

I can testify that something is profoundly wrong with the Knigochey's account. Looks like he is discriminated if not targeted by Palrium. 

"you do not receive the reward at each PP" --- that sounds almost offensive :) 

You were told about 20+ fruitless raids

I'm sure you know it very well that your reward depends on your previous reward. And if it was big enough, it may take even more than 20 PPs to get the next one. Also, it matters a lot which levels you're attacking. 

Anyway, you're right. There's nothing new I could say to an experienced PP player. You have a lot of experience already. The only issue that may be present is calculations. players often rely on some specific data posted by other players that may be incorrect. For example, Unit "value". And that's where the most issues with PPs come from. Real formulas, values and calculations may differ from players expectations.

But since I cannot offer anything specific (I'm not allowed to share any numbers or formulas), the only advice I can give is "try again". 

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:

Mullenz said:

Alyona, what you are saying is true, but that is basics which  a 165 lvl PP player  obviously knows already. 

Yes, there is some value in XP points, but tht is pennies to compare to countless millions invested in PP. 

I can testify that something is profoundly wrong with the Knigochey's account. Looks like he is discriminated if not targeted by Palrium. 

"you do not receive the reward at each PP" --- that sounds almost offensive :) 

You were told about 20+ fruitless raids

I'm sure you know it very well that your reward depends on your previous reward. And if it was big enough, it may take even more than 20 PPs to get the next one. Also, it matters a lot which levels you're attacking. 

Anyway, you're right. There's nothing new I could say to an experienced PP player. You have a lot of experience already. The only issue that may be present is calculations. players often rely on some specific data posted by other players that may be incorrect. For example, Unit "value". And that's where the most issues with PPs come from. Real formulas, values and calculations may differ from players expectations.

But since I cannot offer anything specific (I'm not allowed to share any numbers or formulas), the only advice I can give is "try again". 

Alyona, I only can once again express my condolence; your job prompts you to defend a very bad practice aka arbitrary rule. No matter what formulas are, if you doubled your last payout in "investments" and hit high lvl PP, with horrible results - you know the game is rigged and your patience runs thin. You want those who have deliberately ruined your fun and been stealing your time for ages to be kept accountable. 

ItBurnsWhenIPvP said:

The players with 50k horses are the ones who abused the persians a while back and took advantage of a glitch..There is no way anyone could have that amount unles they cheated or are plarium employess..It doesnt take rocket science to know that.

Mullenz said:

Really? So now you are saying that Plrium openly stated that PP is gambling and the "investment" can be lost forever? 

To avoid misunderstanding, please check our FAQ about PPs: https://plarium.com/forum/en/sparta-war-of-empires/game-discussion/34287_faq---check-this-thread-before-posting/

Mullenz said:

morteeee said:

Persians have always been very much a "play at your own risk" part of the game, just like hitting a city blind is or hitting an emporia blind, no one, including plarium, has ever guaranteed a payout, a profit as it were, show me the document from the company that says that you will gain a profit from them? You cant as it doesn't exist, it is merely one facet of a multi faceted game 

Really? So now you are saying that Plrium openly stated that PP is gambling and the "investment" can be lost forever? 

No, it repeatedly renounces that we have our "investments" in a bank. And that after we reinvest about 110% of our last payout, we are supposed to receive another large payout. 

And we now are discussing a principal, not even a "profit". I am doing relatively well, but knigochey  has been subjected to discrimination, without any doubt. 

I am not going to argue terminology or semantics with you, at the end of the day playing any aspect of the game and indeed the game itself is each individual's choice, no one forces anyone to play PP's, no one twists their arms or hold them to ransom, just like in life, some you win and some you lose I

If Knigochey feels he has been discriminated against or that his game is bugged/altered/different then please advise him to contact support, yes, I know, we always say that however it just happens to be true, support team are the only ones who can investigate this for him and yes sometimes they take a while, I was out of the game 2 weeks ago for nearly a week with a frozen city, but you know what, I kept sending them the info requested and eventually they got it fixed AND advised me how to avoid it happening again 

lmao I am not being touchy, I never lose my temper or get upset about games :) 

morteeee said:

Mullenz said:

morteeee said:

Persians have always been very much a "play at your own risk" part of the game, just like hitting a city blind is or hitting an emporia blind, no one, including plarium, has ever guaranteed a payout, a profit as it were, show me the document from the company that says that you will gain a profit from them? You cant as it doesn't exist, it is merely one facet of a multi faceted game 

Really? So now you are saying that Plrium openly stated that PP is gambling and the "investment" can be lost forever? 

No, it repeatedly renounces that we have our "investments" in a bank. And that after we reinvest about 110% of our last payout, we are supposed to receive another large payout. 

And we now are discussing a principal, not even a "profit". I am doing relatively well, but knigochey  has been subjected to discrimination, without any doubt. 

I am not going to argue terminology or semantics with you, at the end of the day playing any aspect of the game and indeed the game itself is each individual's choice, no one forces anyone to play PP's, no one twists their arms or hold them to ransom, just like in life, some you win and some you lose I

If Knigochey feels he has been discriminated against or that his game is bugged/altered/different then please advise him to contact support, yes, I know, we always say that however it just happens to be true, support team are the only ones who can investigate this for him and yes sometimes they take a while, I was out of the game 2 weeks ago for nearly a week with a frozen city, but you know what, I kept sending them the info requested and eventually they got it fixed AND advised me how to avoid it happening again 

Sure, after one gets robbed (most likely by the very staffers you are suggesting to go for help), he/she should feel well, right? Once again, profit is what you get OVER the investment. Stolen principal is not "profit". Do you understand what I am talking about?

Mullenz said:

Really? So now you are saying that Plrium openly stated that PP is gambling and the "investment" can be lost forever? 

To avoid misunderstanding, please check our FAQ about PPs: https://plarium.com/forum/en/sparta-war-of-empires/game-discussion/34287_faq---check-this-thread-before-posting/

Mullenz said:

Maybe this will get through to you! (yeah right.. hehe)

This is just a GAME and I play it to pass the time. If at any point I feel aggrieved I will simply go and play something else!!

I play because I CHOOSE to.. I own nothing to Plarium and vice versa. As far as I am concerned they can do whatever they like with THEIR game!! 

Posting at the forum endless complains and conspiracy theories and on and on.. why are you still playing?!? lol 

Mullenz said:

Maybe this will get through to you! (yeah right.. hehe)

This is just a GAME and I play it to pass the time. If at any point I feel aggrieved I will simply go and play something else!!

I play because I CHOOSE to.. I own nothing to Plarium and vice versa. As far as I am concerned they can do whatever they like with THEIR game!! 

Posting at the forum endless complains and conspiracy theories and on and on.. why are you still playing?!? lol 

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:

Mullenz said:

Alyona, the quote you are referring to is just a vaguely formulated card blansh for plarium cheating. Gambling is illegal in games like that. But even if you were allowed, what your hidden programs do would be equivalent to tampering with the roulette mechanism. Absolutely clear, the programs you are claiming to be "proprietary" have nothing to do with random outcomes. And if they are punitive to certain players, they obvioulsy can elevate others. 

PPs are not gambling, Mullenz :) They are a part of the game. But if you don't like them, you're not forced to play them.

P.S. A warning for personal abusive statements regarding one of the players.

If PP is a "black box" and you are refusing to give any reliable instruction and admit it is unpredictable - it is gambling. BTW, did you miss I just mirrored the "abusive statements" aimed at me? Did "other players" receive your warning, too?