Why is everyone so concerned/upset about this? This is a very obvious oversight, and they recompensed everyone with a free mastery reset. How is that not enough compensation?

I admit that the mastery reset is okay....

But if you had build up 5 champions for this strategy, will they also replace the 25 5* chickens, the XP-brews, potions, time and energy used up for this?

Exactly this!  A free reset is peanuts compared to building teams based on this strategy, remember it's 3 teams of 6 people here!  Not to mention our most valuable thing, again, time.  All because this effect 1 head out of a rotation of 6.  And you change a mastery that has an effect in places beyond just Hydra AND for all champs that use it.

This is a solid point. 

The whole starting post of this thread is a solid point.

It seems that the development team doesn't know the mastery tree of their own game at all. It's not only the recent change, it's the same with Bommal and his interaction to Evil Eye. But when a mastery and new game content interact in a way that is bad for the players, of course nothing is changed, and of course nobody gets a free reset to change the allready skilled mastery.

But when a mastery and new content interact in fortune of the player, the mastery is nerfed.

And its amazing how fast they can make that happen but not other changes.  I think thats the most upsetting part

I didn't argue with any of it.

I am most frustrated about the resources that I used though.

Why do you have their back in this? We are wasting our time and resources;  yet it's only a waste because plarium doesn't like the consequences of their own actions. That's why us, but why you?

Objectively, I don't think the interaction between Deterrence, Shamael and Head of Torment was supposed to function in an extended loop of sorts, where you're able to fire off that many counters in one turn. 

I don't think krama's necessarily got their back, more so that he sees it in a different way than you. 

The loss of resources and time is a kick in the teeth. I can understand both sides of the argument. 

I expected a nerf, glad I went to sleep last night instead of building shameal and team.  Good to be lazy sometimes  :)

I agree with OP that changing the mastery was a poor decision. If it impacts other areas where that is used, it has to doesn't it? 

I would have preferred buffing, changing hydra skills instead as suggested by OP.

As for testing, i think they will continue to release and get free testing from the community instead. Right or wrong, that is how this casino has chosen to operate.

I think global and expanded implementation of super raids (or adding auto complete in some areas) is the best compensation i would ask for.  Clearly there is no technical reason to at least expand super raids.  

I am willing to spend manual time on hydra a few times a week, but cut out the 90% of time wasted on redundant crap.

Yes, I just made a quick calculation of the ressources I spent to build up a working second team. Luckily, I had all of these champs, some resting in the vault, some being dupes.

Shamael -> starting point 1/4*/ 0 ascended -> 60/6*/6 ascended 

Battlesage -> 50/5*/2 asc -> 54/6*/5 asc

Sinesha -> 50/5*/2asc -> 45/6*/5 asc

Cybelle-> 1/5*/0 asc -> 54/6*/5asc

Ma'shallad-> 1/5*/0asc -> 47*/6*/5 asc

Oboro -> 50/5*/2asc -> 58/6*/5 asc

For all of them I leveled up artifacts which cost me about 50 mio silver. For some of the equip I had to strip other champs. All of them started with zero masteries and now have full masteries.

Altogether, the ressources put into this team are

30 5* chicken, 4 4* chicken

2x 800 gems for masteries

8 leggo books for Ma'shallad  (Dupe) to finally hit his A2 (sigh)

10 Epic books for Shamael (Dupe)

The rest either got no books (Cybele) or had been fully booked before.

around 7.000 energy for Minotaur runs for the rest

36 Superior Arcane Potions, 46 greater Arcane Potions, 58 Superior Aff Potions, 47 Greater Aff Potions

and the most important part: about 20 hours of testing, advancing, equipping, ascending and leveling the champions.

Even without the time I spent, if I do a rough calculation from the offer prices, this is about 500$ in ressources spent into this team.

Would I have build the champs otherwise? Ma'shallad dupe eventually, the rest of them...no.

Yes, a free reset of masteries is nice...but compared to the ressources and time I spent...it is neglectable.

I can tell you that I am very demotivated by this quick change in the mechanics. How shall I trust to build up champs for the Hydra next without having these ressources spent in the back of my mind? How shall I not be hesitant as I do not know whether the game will be changed on a whim again? 

@Trips: Grats on being lazy on this. Sometimes it is really beneficial to wait some weeks.

^

i

Matrim, I would be mad if I were you too. I know a few people who invested heavy amounts of resources/time to get at least Shamael going in an AOE based team, if not trying to get the optimal team set up. 

It would've been nice if there were some communication earlier in the week because it does feel like some nerf/change was inevitable. Something along the lines of: "We're monitoring interactions in Hydra between Deterence and Inquisitor Shamael" could've gone a long, long way in being a sign for a lot of players to chill out on dumping resources into a comp that would be diminished in a few days.

Even if content is heavily playtested, there will likely be an oversight here or there. Communication is always going to be useful, though. I don't think the interaction between Shamael/Deterrence/Torment is a particularly good one, but the way this has all happened feels way, way worse. I'd imagine a lot of players who don't have infinite resources are going to think twice whether or not to invest in comps/champs for Hydra now. 

I would agree with you except for the fact that even in our clan we were discussing Shamael and champs with detterence mastery long before Hydra was actually playable.  Surely if our group of players could see the strategy before its release then a competent game designing team should have...

Damn matrim, you went all in on week 1... I am going to be lazy on hydra for a bit.

My stupidity today was rage pulling til I hit the sacred lego... took 16 shards ouch.  I advised everyone in my clan to save shards for fusion and did opposite... gonna be popping greenies now, 

I agree, it was not desired, nor forseen that we could abuse these multi factor situations to conjunct as abuse of brand new end game content. But to nerf the mastery which effects other content, especially arena is simply more evidence of how out of touch the devs are with their own mechanics and the broad spectrum of player diversity and experiences. They should nerf hydra torment head. And figure out how to buff the hydra aspects if they feel that this most reasonable fix is too much of a swing in the other direction. Admitting they were not as complete with hydra is the first step.  Containing their nerfs buffs and progress to complete this new content should have been the second. Not looking directly at the loophole they unintentionally allowed and taking one quick look at what they've already done in preparation; which was the extensive tuning of the hydra, the nerf performed on shamael prior to hydra release, and then the unexpected all aoe champ with deterrence mastery abuse factor and thinking: hey, lets just change that and call it good! Total bullspit. They don't want to go back to the drawing board at all. Guarantee they already talked about how adding a CD to the torment head would make it too easy as well and they don't want to get creative again and slow progress on other developments, or u know... maybe they don't want to reschedule their paid vacations. 

What I do not understand is the way chosen to fix this problem.

Shamael passive reads

Whenever an ally receives a Fear or a True Fear debuff, this skill will instantly remove the debuff and fill the ally’s Turn Meter by 15% 

It doesn't read "and fill the champion in the lead position Turn Meter by 15%", which is the case and the enabling factor with all those teams.

Making it work as it's written would not be a nerf. It would be a simple bug fix. Instead they chose to screw with masteries. While actually nowhere else in the game fears are placed more then one time per turn so this nerf won't change much in pve, it's still a very strange and circuituous way of fixing this exploit. 

So what was changed ... Lol?

I guess I will see some good clickbait YouTube videos when I get home. I understand something with deteramce mastery has changed to nerf Inquisitor on hydra? What exactly has changed?

I'm in the boat as well as going pretty heavy on resources for week 2 of hydra. I maxed inquisitor, battlesage, and sinesha. I had sinesha already at five stars ascended but other two were naked level 0 4 stars. I spent a lot of silver on initial gearing already and was about to do a more thorough gearing now that i saw some speeds tunes. Was waiting on cvc to go on a booking rampage as none of the three champs I just maxed were booked. I spent 1.6k gems on masteries for 2 of them and farmed the third set of masteries.

I'm not really pissed as at least champ training has been going on, but damn I was looking forward to killing it this week on hydra.

Suggest I use harvest jack and shamael together, say I use Harvest Jack to aoe tfear the enemy lydia resists, retaliates and places fear on all of my champs, they use deterrence procs, but then the enemy also has mashalled and goes to fear me again before my next turn? Im not allowed to proc it again because of this thoughtless 'hydra fix' it's total bs, I have lydia, harvest, shamael, and mashalled. These are real arena scenarios. Lydia is a popular AoE decrease def and weaken debuffer in arena, mashalled is also a popular debuffer controller, i use them together and fight against them paired together and against similar teams. Ramantu can also AoE true fear. And an f2p got ramantu recently so.. these scenarios are only becoming more relevant as time passes. My mashalled getting an extra a1 multi target hitter off before his next turn can be all the difference in an arena fight, i have him with low resist and swift parry. If someone removes turn meter with lyssandra or jintoro with kymar and ramantu and their fear champ goes twice is another example. For them to come out and say that this function was never intended to be unlimited is total crap it's been this way for 3 years. They only care about it now that it relates to hydra and the consequences of their pending remedy are NOT contained/limited to the hydra.

 Why  you  all  upset?  Urogrim,  Geomacer  wasn't  enough  for  you?  When  they  removed  best  log in  rewards ,  like  5 chicken &  legendary  book  and   replace  it  with  useless  legendary  and  even  useless  epic  nobody  wants.  They  told  us  that  champions  empowering  won't  disbalance  the  Arena (I  see  it  in  gold  4).  In  casino Its  all  about  you  spend  money  but  If you not  ,  nobody  wants  you  in  casino. Whale   players  happy  about  it  ,  they   have  +4  Krisks,   Duchess  and  other  top  tier  champions .  Hydra  ,  dupe  system  made  only   for  them ,  they  don't  quit  game,  not  for  f2p  players ,  who  cares  about  f2p.  Just  ignore  hydra  for  a month  or  2 ,  let  them  fix  it.  And  i  knew  Shamael  Hydra  cheese  would  be  fixed   in  a  week  or  2  ,  i  have  2  Shamaels  but  even  didn't  try  to  level  them  up,   learned  from  Geomancer  )))   and    I  am  not  happy  about deterrence  mastery  nerf  this  mechanic  were  in  this  game  from  beginning,  Hydra  and  Shamael  wasn't. For  sure  they  should  test  it  better  before  release.  But  who  cares   this  days  about   game   quality and  players  experience,  90%  games  have  bugs  on  release date and gamers still  pre-order  games  over  and  over.  Money  dictates  rules  and   nothing  we  can  do  about  it .  Unfortunately  Raid  Shadow  Legend  is  all  about  money.