100% agree issue is armanz. 

Except that it is not a bug w/Armanz.  Armanz & WuKong were designed to override Stoneksin w/their Active Sheep skill if they win the Acc/Res check. 

Just to clarify, it's not that Armanz's ability ITSELF is what is going through Stoneskin, it's the fact that it's a Sheep effect. Same thing happens with Wukong's A2. UNFORTUNATELY the Devs have a very poor way of wording abilities and it leads to a lot of confusion such as this. Like I didn't know until recently that Stoneskin blocks Turn Meter Increase effects, but it does NOT block Cooldown Increasing effects.

So yeah, Wukong/Armanz's abilities both have a line that says "Cannot be blocked" but that's redundant since it's a Sheep effect. Sheep can't be blocked period.

Lastly, you're posting the In-Game Description of the Sheep Effect, not the actual Debuff conditions. The info you're looking for is on Polymorph blessing (again, blame the Devs)

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A lot of players don't understand that unless it says both, or unless otherwise stated, something that "can't be blocked" can be resisted, and "can't be resisted" can be blocked; that they're 2 separate counter-effects.

It's poorly explained in the early game, but then, a lot of players don't read the explanation to start with.

Devs do need to really update tooltips for a lot of champions though. I mean it shouldn't take a Dev to add a line to the Sheep debuff description that says "This debuff can't be blocked, including Stoneskin" and Stoneskin to add on top of the HP Burn and Bomb debuffs Sheep.

Lady Noelle's freeze (with sir nic) doesn't say anything about ignoring block debuffs specifically. It just says that it cannot be blocked:

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Using the Stoneskin tooltip which says "immunity to all debuffs" to justify that an unblockable debuff will be blocked is like using the Block Debuffs tooltip which says the same thing "immune to all debuffs" to justify that an unblockable debuff can be blocked -

when the entire point of an unblockable debuff is to bypass debuff immunity

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So I don't get it. Someone is going to have to explain it to me. Why is it that when Block Debuffs says "immune to all debuffs", everyone knows that an unblockable debuff will bypass it, but when Stoneskin says "Immunity to all debuffs", everyone believes unblockable debuffs cannot bypass it, when it literally says the same thing?

If you wanna be nitpicky, shouldn't Block Debuffs ability to block debuffs be inherently more powerful than Stoneskins, since Stoneskin cannot block Bomb and Hp Burn, while Block Debuffs can block them?

Again, the purpose of unblockable debuffs is to bypass debuff immunity. Both Block Debuffs and Stoneskin say "immune to debuffs", which is the immunity that unblockable debuffs should bypass. If not, then why does the debuff say that it can't be blocked when it can be blocked?

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The only valid explanation would be if Stoneskin's tooltip is innacurate. In that case, Stoneskin should say "guarantees immunity to all debuffs", or "gives non-bypassable immunity to all debuffs".

I'm willing to accept that Stoneskin's tooltip is innacurate, but then you have to admit that Stoneskin's current tooltip gives absolutely no indication that an unblockable debuff cannot bypass it, when again it says the same thing as Block Debuffs, and the purpose of unblockable debuffs is to bypass that immunity.

It would make more sense if Noelle's tooltip is innacurate, and should instead say "ignores Block Debuffs", because again, Armanz and Wukong can bypass Stoneskin with their unblockable Sheep.

The bit about "sheep is different because it "overrides" Stoneskin is silly. Sheep is a debuff that is placed like any other. Those abilities say "cannot be blocked", and it bypasses Stoneskin because of that.

I'm not entirely convinced that a Blessing's explanation for placing a debuff is the true description of the debuff itself. Especially if the "in-game description" is different. If you're right, then Plarium needs to resolve those inconsistencies and explain debuffs properly in the description.

It could easily be the case that the Polymorph Blessing simply places an unblockable Sheep, which would otherwise be blockable. Then Armanz and Wukong's abilities also make the debuff unblockable.

There are other blessings that place debuffs, like Soul Reap which says that the True Fear it places cannot be blocked or resisted. Does that mean the Blessing description should bypass the debuff description, making ALL True Fear unblockable and irresistible?

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ok here's what you're missing tho, Sheep REMOVES all the buffs/debuffs on the target before taking effect.

That's why Freeze and Fear are different. Sheep is essentially changing the entire state of the champion. They have no skills other than the A1 and their health resets also.

That's why it's different, it's just not fully explained well in the tooltip and that's a big issue.

Yes linking the Polymorph blessing was a mistake on my part to try and explain. Unfortunately for some Raid Mechanics you need to watch CC videos or read articles to get the REAL information on how stuff works

"Alot of players don't understand "

That is all you needed to say.

Thread closed  😀

Naw we will get another 2 months of mileage out of this one.

I mean at this point that should be the game's title "Raid: A lot of players don't understand"

I think the truth lies in the comma placements in those describtions, one describtions background color might be off just a tiny bit aswell

I think if we count the number of letters in polymorph and compare it to lady noelles freeze we might be on to something

*gets a real big whiff of copium*

42 is the answer

42 is always the answer, Ford.  

@Jakomaru 

Pretty sure that no one here will argue with your statement that Plarium should improve in-game descriptions and provide more detailed information on how different skills, debuffs and other effects actually work and especially how they interact.  

However, keep in my mind that what we have right now is far better than what we have had for 75% of the game's life.  It has only been a year that there have even been in-game descriptions of the debuffs & buffs at all, even less for that fancy ability to filter your roster by auras, buffs, debuffs, etc.  

In the good old days, you needed to use third party sites like HellHades & Ayumilove if you wanted to know anything at all...

Your statements about poor descritpions are certainly valid, but not exactly meaningful when directed at other players who have no ability to change said descriptions, but who are trying to explain how the game functions.  

If it turns out that we are wrong, and that you are correct, and that Lady Noelle is supposed to be able to do AoE freeze that can work through Stoneskin, she will turn out to be the most powerful toon released this year, and she and Nick will become a new Arena Meta.  However, if you are correct, I would think we would be hearing a literal cacophony from the CCs about it by now.

Noelle will not place her freeze over Stoneskin. That's all there is to it.

There certainly are descriptions that could use a pass for wording though, I wouldn't argue that one bit.

Since this thread has somewhat devolved into a discussion of incomplete & inaccurate in-game information, I cannot seem to find the damage bonsues that HP Burn & Bombs do against a toon in Stoneskin.  I seem to  remember that both of them do more damage than they do to non-stoneskin toons, but I do not remember the multiplier, nor do I seem to be able to find it in-game.

Thanks for your assistance.    

Unfortunately this is consistently an issue.

I have a quick fix for this issue. All it will take is one word added: Usually

For the "Block Debuffs" effect, change the name to "Usually Block Debuffs"

Then for the any ability that says "Cannot be Blocked" add the word Usually to the front so it becomes:

"Usually Cannot be Blocked"

@sharkium Thanks!