assuming this is normal you can easily run with something in the 190-200 speed range and I'd err on the side of more crit damage, when we can since we're attack boosting with arbi (with crit cap ofc)

stuff to aim for: want to be in lethal/savage + zeal with a bloodshield accessory, or 6 piece merciless + zeal and bloodshield

what blessing are you running?

Right now my goal is to get some big number on at least Hard - ideally like 200M+. I should clarify that the "before" in that picture is using Savage - so, giving up the extra 10% ignore DEF in exchange for the ~50 speed.

I'm finding that I can get some silly big numbers in very specific situations - generally, 2-3 decap heads with debuffs and Trunda buffed into the big A2 - but that, the majority of time, Trunda is just too slow to be able to do enough. When Torment is up, she cycles very quickly, but Torment also dies very quickly.

So, for now, put aside the accessories, and just focus on the before/after, since I need to build from there. As for blessing - I think she's got Phantom Touch atm?

I much prefer the Savage build with Crit Damage piled in there. 

This sounds about right re: big damage situations, typically with Hex on all the heads. 

I prefer Heavencast unless you're at 6* in which case we're running Crushing Rend.

with regards to turns/speed: What's the team around Trunda?

Still rotating team ideas around, trying to figure out what works best. The latest version hits about 30M after 5-6 turns, but then falls off sharply as the heads respawn and moves start falling out of sync - and is also heavily reliant on Torment being around.

The one I'm experimenting with lately is Arb + Lydia + Shamael + Gurptuk + Trunda + Rathalos - it can hit some pretty big numbers, and I'm thinking on manual at least, I should be able to get my target. On auto it's just so bad though :/ 

probably a semi dumb question: are you lacking in reset champs?

I have plenty of them - I just can't find a way to make those team comps work. Like, in that other thread where you had suggested Arb + Lydia + Sham + Trunda + Gurptuk + Emic. It does okay while Torment is up, but the second Torment dies, it just really lags behind in damage. Honestly I feel the biggest problem is really just that Trunda is too slow, which is why I'm considering that above gear swap. When Torment is up, the boosting from Sham makes up for it, but when Torment is down, she often can't even get one turn while the heads are decap'ed.

In terms of reset options, I have Emic, of course, but I also have two Kymars, and all the usual lower options - except, specifically, no Nia.

I have no Trunda, so I am no expert in these teams, but a popular setup I have seen is to run Lydia in Hex gear with Trunda, Gurptuk, Double Kymar, & Arbiter.

If you can hit hard enough & fast enough, you can kill freshly spawned heads through their Serpent's Will Buff becasue you are hammering whatever head is decapped and Hex is doing the work.   

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thats the team iam using on hard Hydra,did 600mill damage 1.2bil total 2weeks ago on full auto, Trunda is at 271 speed, the qucker the better when not using reset champs imo

Bumping this up. No matter what team comp I try, I just cannot get this to work. I'm trying it on hard, and I've tried combinations of the following champs along with Shamael, Lydia, and Trunda:

• Ukko
• Emic
• Bivald (in Relentless)
• Arbiter
• Gurptuk
• Rathalos
• Kymar

With the exception of Rathalos, all are built to be very fast - 270+ SPD. None of them are working out, regardless of whether I put Trunda as lead, or one of them. All face two similar problems:

1) When Torment is down, the damage drops significantly, and

2) The heads just pop back up way too quickly to really maximize the benefit of Trunda's big A2

I'm considering adding a speed down champ to the team, and looking over my roster, Gwyndolin looks like she could be an interesting addition, bringing a debuff extender alongside speed down and leech for extra healing - but before investing in her I'd like to see if there are any other ways of making this team work.

Gwyndolin is a top tier Hydra toon on her own and is certainly worth building since I am sure you have the resources to do it.

Have you tried testing out your Trunda comp on Normal first?  Normal is where most people use their Trunda comps, especially when they are still getting them sorted out.      

Of the toons you have listed, I would try to run the following team on Normal:  Trunda, Arbiter, Lydia, Gurptuk & 2X Kymar (I think you said you had 2).  In this setup, you will want to run Lydia and/or one Kymar in Hex gear.

Unfortunately one of the Kymars is on my arena team, which, while admittedly I don't use often, I'd like to not break. The other Kymar is in Hex gear. I tried that exact setup except with Emic instead of Kymar, and had no success, so I'm kinda doubtful that a second Kymar would help, given they can't reset eachother's cooldowns. One of the other bigger problems of running the Gurptuk version, is that the team becomes really squishy, and often just ends up dying because of insufficient healing - which is where I'm thinking that Gwyndolin may come in handy with her Leech debuff.

I haven't tried on normal, but I've run a ton on hard. Not sure what more I'd glean from running on normal though?

There are some options that might fit like Countess Lix, but rather than playing 20 questions could I see your roster, specifically legos?

As I see it we're rolling with Emic/Kymar/Arbiter/Trunda/Lydia almost certainly as the five. We're trying to find a DPS or some sort of combo option for our sixth.

Normal Hydra Heads hit like a pack of wild wet noodles.

That is why you see the majority of Trunda teams on Normal, not Hard.

If you try running Trunda, Arbiter, Lydia, Gurptuk, Kymar & Emic on Normal and can't do more than any other Normal team you have every tried, I will be very surprised.    

I have seen Countess Lix in some of these setups as well.  With two AoEs, she is another good option for the Hex gear.    

Right but - I want the chest from hard lol. I can get around 100-150m on auto with my other comps, trying to do better than that with these trunda ideas.

Roster: will update in a bit with who is off limits

Off-limits: Nogdar, Ramantu, Hephraak, Gaius, Shazar, Kymar (one of them), Inithwe - all on arena teams. Helicath (one of them), Gnut, Yakarl - FK H10 team. Ninja - SD24. Nekmo, Mithrala, Geomancer (one of them), Uugo, Maulie - NM Hydra team.

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Some rando thoughts: Get Bone Armor on Dos Rotos, maybe start feeding Rotos once our FG is filled (it might be already but I haven't gone through all your legos)

why is Wukong unbuilt? :(

the answer to your issue is Eostrid or BEK or a Wukong/Salad/Gwyndolin if we're looking for more DPS related to Trunda being chomped issues, though I'd probably lean Wukong there since he drops big DPS on decapitated heads/brings block debuffs and go Gwyndolin if survival continues to be an issue though Eostrid is my favorite overall. 

Really it comes down to which areas of runs falling apart are causing you the most issues and picking the one that covers the most. 

To your former questions - largely because I don't really pay attention to arena anymore, and haven't found a need to build Wukong for anything else.

To your suggestion - what exactly am I missing regarding the value (or lack thereof) of Wukong, in Hydra? If I'm running Gurptuk I already have the block buffs part, and I'm really hard-pressed to see Wukong being higher damage than Rathalos - unless the "surplus damage" part activates when used against decapp'ed heads?

Also RE Eostrid - honestly didn't even realise I had her. She seems quite solid, although somewhat wasted in terms of overlap with Lydia? Is she really better than Gwyndolin for this team?

Wukong: brings the strip as well, which is not negligible but we can skip him if you feel it too redundant. the surplus does hit hard, and I don't think we're looking for just raw DPS like Rathalos here.

Even with the redundant nature of Eostrid I don't see it as a waste and I do think she's better than Gwyndolin but both seem worth trying. The passive heals + always keeping Dec Speed/Weaken/Inc Speed + attack going, with the TM fill seems great. If you don't use her here, definitely slot her into another one of your teams. 

So if you had to vote on one of Gwyndolin or Eostrid to try first, which would you pick?