Kings Hammer said:

Question: What changes, if any, are Plarium considering to beacon force limits?

New Rank is available to Champs. They can now go to level 7.

This pushes the max bonus from Grade V from 112% to 169%.

This along with Weor which is giving every one large number of low food eating units is going to make a massive change to beacon force limits (which revitalised the beacons and saved the at the start of 2019).

I know Plarium won't think about details like this, hence the post (you really need to be deeply involved in the game to understand the impact of the force limits and changes like this).

So just to be clear, over the course of the last couple of months we increased hammers sizes by about 100% and therefore effectively decreased beacon force limits by about 50%.

This is a major, unexpected side effect of the changes. I know you are trying to give us new toys to keep people interested. But you have to be VERY VERY careful with any update that changes troop bonuses. Massive risk of unintentionally unbalancing the beacon game.

Hello, Kings Hammer!

Force limit, limits the total max offence hit that can be sent to beacons (or hamlets, castles etc).

The extra champ rank is a 50% increase in champ power. This is an 25% increase in total army power.

The Woer event provides a large number of VERY low food consumption troops. And over weeks and week a VERY LARGE number of those troops. Those units have power per unit power and a third of the consumption of a darkened dragon.

So prior to the Weor and Champ changes:

- Max hit into a beacon under 150k force limit was around 0.85bn for a normal player

- If you were a mega coiner and were able to add all eldritch dragons you could get that to 1.4bn

Now post Weor and Champ changes:

- Max hit into beacon is around 1.3bn

- A mega coiner could now be up to 2.0bn

That is an inflation in the max hit against a beacon of around 40-50%.

And that inflation gets bigger and bigger each week as people can have more and more of the low food consumption Woer units.

Put it another way, without realising it, Plarium has effectively reduced force limits by up to 50%. I think you got the force limit level spot on, but now it being reduced all the time.

Force limits saved the game. Beacon game is the end game for Stormfall. It gives people something to do and strive for long after seen and done the individual level gameplay. It's what keeps a lot of the player in the game for years, and generates the meta game content (dilplo, alliances etc etc).

We are getting back to the ppint where 1 player spending tens of thousands a month (and we know there are people that do that), will be able to kill entire leagues again. We'll be back to the lack of balance that nearly killed the games 2/3 years ago.

i should start a few accounts 

Force limit, limits the total max offence hit that can be sent to beacons (or hamlets, castles etc).

The extra champ rank is a 50% increase in champ power. This is an 25% increase in total army power.

The Woer event provides a large number of VERY low food consumption troops. And over weeks and week a VERY LARGE number of those troops. Those units have power per unit power and a third of the consumption of a darkened dragon.

So prior to the Weor and Champ changes:

- Max hit into a beacon under 150k force limit was around 0.85bn for a normal player

- If you were a mega coiner and were able to add all eldritch dragons you could get that to 1.4bn

Now post Weor and Champ changes:

- Max hit into beacon is around 1.3bn

- A mega coiner could now be up to 2.0bn

That is an inflation in the max hit against a beacon of around 40-50%.

And that inflation gets bigger and bigger each week as people can have more and more of the low food consumption Woer units.

Put it another way, without realising it, Plarium has effectively reduced force limits by up to 50%. I think you got the force limit level spot on, but now it being reduced all the time.

Force limits saved the game. Beacon game is the end game for Stormfall. It gives people something to do and strive for long after seen and done the individual level gameplay. It's what keeps a lot of the player in the game for years, and generates the meta game content (dilplo, alliances etc etc).

We are getting back to the ppint where 1 player spending tens of thousands a month (and we know there are people that do that), will be able to kill entire leagues again. We'll be back to the lack of balance that nearly killed the games 2/3 years ago.

It would be great is Plarium could acknowledge that they have seen and understood what Kings Hammer has said. If there is more explanation required players will be happy to provide it I am sure, cause its very important.

Assuming it was understood, what is the feedback? How are the devs going to manage the slow degrading of force limits?

Recently we had, shards to 20%, Weor units, increased champs ranks. Future developments are almost bound to add more troop bonuses, so this only gets worse if it's not dealt with. 

Kings Guard said:

It would be great is Plarium could acknowledge that they have seen and understood what Kings Hammer has said. If there is more explanation required players will be happy to provide it I am sure, cause its very important.

Assuming it was understood, what is the feedback? How are the devs going to manage the slow degrading of force limits?

Recently we had, shards to 20%, Weor units, increased champs ranks. Future developments are almost bound to add more troop bonuses, so this only gets worse if it's not dealt with. 

Maybe the plan is to see a few beacons drop.  With at least some force limit you don't have to worry about your beacons getting completely smashed by people with like 10bil+ offense in one hit, but I don't think plarium wants the limit to be too small where beacons are impossible to take.  

Bird said:

What you say it s true but i would ask only one thing;a beacon champion defense -Reverant rank 7 will not balance beacon attack champion-Centaur? they both get same boost   like all champs... so where is the change at this point??it s just a question.

It's a small number of mega offence accounts that threaten beacons. Majority already have rank 7 champs, as they can be obtained via sacrifice training almost immediately, where money is no object (first one I saw was within a few hours of the update).

For the defence to catch up the whole 160 members of a league need to get to rank 7. 

Realistically that will take many many months. A lot of normal players won't even have a Grade V beacon champ to even start training. But more to the point the massive amount of training required can only be done over a very long period without paying large amounts of money for it.

Champ training cost money (after they nerfed the emeralds rewards). You only get 75% of the bond drops you need. And of course if you are trying to train quickly you need masses of recharges.

A normal hobby level spending player will need to train slowly and gradually during the events like Solo Champ that gives you back emeralds, bonds, recharges etc which allow you to train in a break-even manner.

It takes around 5000 champs to train a rank 7. The base bond drop rate is 7.5% which gives you only 75% of the bonds you need for training. So you would need to buy 1,250 bonds for quick/immediate training. That is 12,500 emeralds.

It take just over 51,000 sends to undead to train a rank 7. That would be 51k emeralds to train a champ if you wanted to do it immediately. Some you would get back from the ranks up, but as it's loss making no where near all.

So for a LONG time the champs update will have created  an imbalance between off and def. Off up almost immediately.... def slowly dripping up over months (some ppl might still be waiting for a guaranteed beacon def champ event in half a years time, before they can even start).

What you say it s true but i would ask only one thing;a beacon champion defense -Revenant rank 7 will not balance beacon attack champion-Centaur? they both get same boost   like all champs... so where is the change at this point??it s just a question.

Kings Guard said:

Bird said:

It's a small number of mega offence accounts that threaten beacons. Majority already have rank 7 champs, as they can be obtained via sacrifice training almost immediately, where money is no object (first one I saw was within a few hours of the update).

For the defence to catch up the whole 160 members of a league need to get to rank 7. 

A Centaur rank 7 champ would need 160 members with rank 7 Reverant champ to balance to force?  is nt that way too much??  So before we had rank 6 ,,,now we have rank 7.. all of us.. is nt that the same status (and same stats)??

See post above, in months and months time the defence might catch up. The offence got the boost immediately.

And champs isn't the only change. Tonnes of Weor units are being dropped which completely change the force limits and we have had shard increase to 20%.

When force limits came out, max hit on a beacon was 1.4bn... now within 3 updates over a couple of months it's 2.4bn (calculated off a real hit I saw from last week - in theory it could be significantly more, just depends how many Weor units you want to assume). The force limits remain unchanged.

Future updates will bring in more and more bonuses.

If we sleep walk back to a position where the credit card armies have smashed half the leagues out of the game and activity has fallen below a critical mass to maintain a server, it will be way too late to recognize the problem and do anything about it. 

why do i always have to be the bad guy ???

i've already got enough people hating my guts on forum as it is 

first i should say i was one of the first players who might have seen the rank up effect,and to be honest i was upset about it

but then thought about it.this will make the game better.more active and fun

numbers,percentages !! when talked theyr frightening,but practical use ? how are they applied ? 

lets discuss this too

a league attacks another league's beacons .isnt that how this works ? first a few soft blows,then a hammer goes in and bam :x 

1.all the soft blows are weak units.wouldnt matter muchy even if were stronger

2,no matter how much of a mega coiner someone is,s/he cant do more than few hits

3.not everyone can get a beacon defence champion in gold,but now everyone should have a purple(player) .even a purple one provides some good boosts around 30%

4.any beacon defended under 1 bil is madness even before this.fault is their own.30 % to any beacon over a bil defended by a normal champion still provides good bonus

5.u hit beacons,they can hit ur beacons back,this part is the fun part 

6.there are ways for leagues to strengthen each and every beacon,which as we all know shouldnt be under 1 bil,strengthened by strong champions,just by leadership moving around their members.any league failing to see this,its their leadership's fault

7.we have coalitions now,alliances ,no league is alone now.retaliations or league attacks dnt even need to be by just one league.

8. game is defense oriented.mega coiners train offense ,normal 80% of league players train defense woerian units.where do these units go ? these units dnt get their rank increased,so its a more logical view to be used in fort,beacons..

9. it always falls on a leadership to arrange stuff,failing to understand circumstances goes both ways for attacker and defender

THIS UPDATE,WILL MAKE GAME EVEN MORE FUN .or its just me who likes some chaos ! 

all we talk about is,how plarium nerfed the game

they give free autohunts for almost whole month

people get upset cause i try to be honest :p when was the last time u saw some action in game ?

mega coiners who dnt even know how beacon stuff works,who have never downgraded a beacon ? they just like the appearance of the units,oh my gosh this unit is so pretty :p

we talk and talk and talk about balance,where are these mega coiners,where are these beacons being downgraded after this unbalance

fURY said:

a league attacks another league's beacons .isnt that how this works ? first a few soft blows,then a hammer goes in and bam :x

No that isn't how it works now. Renders most of the rest of your rant redundant as you clearly have no understanding of the siege mechanics whatsoever. 

Also a bit worrying as you are a member of the "supposed" no1 league on the main server. Your post just shows how unbalanced the game is and how clueless people with money rise to the top in this game. Don't even know how to efficiently take down a beacon, it's really sad.

fURY said:

THIS UPDATE,WILL MAKE GAME EVEN MORE FUN

No one in the thread is arguing that it doesn't. You totally missed the point, which is to remind Plarium that when they make updates that affect force limits they need to remember to consider updating the force limits. If they don't sooner or later they will break the game.

fURY said:

we talk and talk and talk about balance,where are these mega coiners,where are these beacons being downgraded after this unbalance

That is a screenshot of an attack from THIS WEEK.

It is the Dragon league having their only edge beacon smacked down.

If you calculate the power of that hit, it's around 2.4bn. 

While a few of those Weor units could have come from events, the majority are shop bought, as are the Eldritch dragons. So that beacon takedown has been achieved with almost entirely, troops that came directly from the shop.

So please don't spread fake news that there aren't mega coiners taking down beacons..... (every beacon Horde has taken down in the last 3 months has been that same player btw and all the hits have been with shop bought troops - he has even started to have to dip into his normal troops yet) 

If Plarium don't start updating the force limits in line with other updates soon you won't have anyone to play with/against as one or two people will run around the map blasting everyone out of the game like we had 2/3 years ago.

fURY said:

i should start a few accounts 

What grinding the champs up to 7 stars on one account isn't enough fun already?  :P

 TheBeast said:

Also a bit worrying as you are a member of the "supposed" no1 league on the main server. Your post just shows how unbalanced the game is and how clueless people with money rise to the top in this game. Don't even know how to efficiently take down a beacon, it's really sad.

That is a screenshot of an attack from THIS WEEK.

It is the Dragon league having their only edge beacon smacked down.

If you calculate the power of that hit, it's around 2.4bn. 

i dnt know how sieges work ? yeah u might be right by ur standards .no matter,if there is a soft blow,or not !

u call everything i say rants ! i dnt care.

but a league loses its one and only border beacon it would be easier to tell me i know nothing that blame a leadership for losing only border for not knowing after 3 months.im not gonna talk about them as its non of my business.im not gonna rant more about the other things,rant  its becoming a fun word for me .if i had one bordering beacon not only wouldnt i lose it,id destroy any army trying it,based on the siege mechanic i dnt know anything about !!!! 

in the end its always easier to blame others 

Haadaway. said:

TheBeast said:

Really?  are you kidding?  you bring in THIS report??? i dont know if i have to laugh or to be amazed ..that is NOT a defended beacon..i myself can put it down even if i m not a coiner.Wow.. 800 ocult units..wow..1k spies..2k archers..should i go on?if this is a defended beacon what can we say about those with 2bill up force denfese inside?this is a joke of a beacon.I invite Renzo to hit our beacon even if we are a little league..than we see how many tears will drop.He would need MUCH MUCH more than that and i m not bluffing.OF COURSE little alliances beacons are and will always bee an easy target for a megacoiner..one of my team mate killed in past all beacons of a league and he spent A LOT with eyes closed just because he was nervous  :).The big will always eat the little..so bring in another example... show us a REAL beacon defended killed by a megacoiner and we can discuss.The defense in this beacon most of average players have in many leagues.

dnt get angry or upset .i disagree with him too.but that image is not fake.its just one alt's (or an accounts) defense in that beacon which was attacked by a player.there are also others defense in that beacon.thats why there are that losses to that attacker

Silverhand said:

Haadaway. said:

i'm so smart

2017 is the year of your registration or your birth?

smh I should have left this game years ago...

cant talk about his/her age or registry date

TheBeast said:

That is a screenshot of an attack from THIS WEEK.

It is the Dragon league having their only edge beacon smacked down.

If you calculate the power of that hit, it's around 2.4bn. 

Really?  are you kidding?  you bring in THIS report??? i dont know if i have to laugh or to be amazed ..that is NOT a defended beacon..i myself can put it down even if i m not a coiner.Wow.. 800 ocult units..wow..1k spies..2k archers..should i go on?if this is a defended beacon what can we say about those with 2bill up force denfese inside?this is a joke of a beacon.I invite Renzo to hit our beacon even if we are a little league..than we see how many tears will drop.He would need MUCH MUCH more than that and i m not bluffing.OF COURSE little alliances beacons are and will always bee an easy target for a megacoiner..one of my team mate killed in past all beacons of a league and he spent A LOT with eyes closed just because he was nervous  :).The big will always eat the little..so bring in another example... show us a REAL beacon defended killed by a megacoiner and we can discuss.The defense in this beacon most of average players have in many leagues.