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tug of the alloys, small leagues penalized

tug of the alloys, small leagues penalized

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Apr 15, 2019, 22:2704/15/19
06/06/16
40

tug of the alloys, small leagues penalized

I am still very doubtful about the criteria for the allocation of the rounds in the tournament between leagues. Why does my little league, although very alive, have to compete against leagues with many players? we are penalized by unfair competition. in other groups, the score of my small league, would have obtained considerably higher prizes. and much more prestigious ranking. although I am proud to play with my boys in the diamond group, I ask if anyone can explain to me what method of assigning the group was implemented towards us.

Thank you

Mephisto

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2k
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Apr 16, 2019, 01:5304/16/19
Apr 16, 2019, 02:04(edited)
02/22/16
1846

It could be that your league has very high average level and are more active in the past history of the Game stats from other tourneys .That would be my guess. 

What is the  actual membership disparity between your leagues  ?

I moved to discusion where it can be seen better 
 
Apr 16, 2019, 05:2904/16/19
Apr 18, 2019, 13:19(edited)
06/06/16
40

A dear friend of mine in the game explained to me that my league is in the diamond group for the points accumulated in the last tournament.

But my question is: why did the Legendary Warriors league start from the diamond group since the first tournament, facing very numerous and historical leagues? The probability of a good placement in the tournament is practically impossible. In the last tournament we were positioned in 55 position. We could have done better, but it would have been a useless waste of resources. 15/20 players against 150 players .... there is no history, even if the opposing league does not have our potential to play.

Apr 16, 2019, 13:1104/16/19
Apr 16, 2019, 13:11(edited)
02/22/16
1846

I inquired into this question and this was the reply I received to pass on to you.

 "The thing is that in this new tourney Leagues are matched by the overall power of Units in both Leagues. So, if you get the powerful opponent in the event this means that your team has an army which power is almost the same with the rival team."  

Maybe your smaller league being more active will prevail.  

Apr 16, 2019, 15:2204/16/19
Apr 16, 2019, 15:38(edited)
09/29/16
195

Good one, Wes. 


Thanks for trying to help my buddy. :)


It is unfortunate that his league, albeit quite small - yet rather a bit powerful - was sentenced to the Diamond tier right off the bat. But as Boris said before, they are still collecting feedback.
Apr 16, 2019, 17:5904/16/19
07/10/14
345

Doesn't the Diamond Tier get better rewards per stage (says so in the information).

So while they might find it more difficult to win a brawl they have the opportunity to get better rewards. Given the rewards for winning the Brawl are tiny relative to the rewards for each stage it's not really a competition versus other leagues, it's actually your league against 5m points for 400+ dragons.
Apr 16, 2019, 23:3104/16/19
07/26/15
515

ok, I wouldnt be unhappy about being in the Diamond Teir or who your matched with, yes the game does match leagues up evenly based on power points of units in that way


Now with the Brawl, every active player wins, even if you lose the round your players still win so long as they score just a few points each in which you can do by just raiding for resources or queing up troops you will get the same rewards as your much stronger league members get, it gives rewards in the same way as any league tournament does so even losing in this 1 is winning big because the rewards in the Diamond teir are pretty good 

and as I mentioned on a different post, with battlegrounds, kill them outright because you get no brawl points for not completely killing a battleground
Apr 17, 2019, 01:0704/17/19
Apr 17, 2019, 02:44(edited)
02/22/16
1846

Well I'm interested in the end result  please post if at the end of brawl if you win or not . If you do win then maybe you weren't over matched

That being said and the disparity in numbers between you  with all the events that could earn a league points in the brawl if all the other league members were active then it would Absolutely be a miss matched pairing 
Apr 17, 2019, 05:0704/17/19
09/29/16
195

Personally, I do think that the range of points for the Diamond tier is set too wide. And this is probably what OP was trying to get at.


"Diamond 

Leagues in this tier gained 360415 - 9529690 points in the previous Tournament"


My little league placed in the top 10 last Brawl without much competition, made it into Diamond this round, and now have to face all the way bigger leagues vying for Top 10 where the real rewards are, i.e. the saphs. Honestly the task rewards are not all that much better than in Gold. Our opponent is also quite a bit smaller than us.

The different tiers seem to be a tad top heavy with too many leagues in Diamond and not much competition in Gold. I would suggest that the bottom end of that range be increased in future.  
Apr 17, 2019, 12:3104/17/19
Apr 17, 2019, 12:32(edited)
07/10/14
345

Fixing "matching" is impossible.

The points on the Brawl are totally skewed to BG payout rewards.

So whether you win or lose a Brawl isn't about the 'power' in the other league. Or the activity in the other league. It's about whether the other league has a tiny handful of players who are willing to spam high level BG's for losses they will revive. If they do then no matter what you do in your league they will just hit BG's at the end of the tournament and push themselves just in front of whatever you score.

I assume people knew or are familiar with this, given it's exactly the same for the duel tournaments (nothing to do with PvP all to do with BG spamming).

So the Dev's could spend weeks fine tuning 'matching' mechanics but all the work would be pointless anyway, unless there was a way to match 'desire to spam loss making BG's to win tournaments'.

The only other significant points earner is training champ. But cynically due to the reward nerf that is now loss making and costs money to do. So that isn't an option for most people either.

Whichever of the two you earn your points by you need people in your league who are willing to spend money to earn the win for you. But isn't that Stormfall in a nut shell?

Apr 18, 2019, 00:3204/18/19
07/26/15
515
It works on powerpoints, thats the leagues offense and defense stats added together to give a total powerpoints, your league must be borderline between gold teir and diamond teir, now if you captured flags during flag tournament and have already applied buffs won from it to either your offense   or defense or both, this would increase your powerpoints even more and that could have put you in the diamond teir also, if i may ask  Mephisto, what was the total score your league achieved in teh gold teir?
Apr 18, 2019, 01:4604/18/19
Apr 18, 2019, 01:49(edited)
02/22/16
1846

Jaywalker said:


Personally, I do think that the range of points for the Diamond tier is set too wide. And this is probably what OP was trying to get at.


"Diamond 

Leagues in this tier gained 360415 - 9529690 points in the previous Tournament"


My little league placed in the top 10 last Brawl without much competition, made it into Diamond this round, and now have to face all the way bigger leagues vying for Top 10 where the real rewards are, i.e. the saphs. Honestly the task rewards are not all that much better than in Gold. Our opponent is also quite a bit smaller than us.

The different tiers seem to be a tad top heavy with too many leagues in Diamond and not much competition in Gold. I would suggest that the bottom end of that range be increased in future.  

This Idea I will pass on as it seems a reasonable idea for consideration that's the best I can do what do you think at least to where 1000000 is the bottom of diamond tier ?

 But just because they gave those numbers doesn't mean it was the criteria they set to enter the tier it could just be an FYI stat 

Apr 18, 2019, 08:3604/18/19
03/05/19
842

Hello, Lords. The opponent in the League Brawl tourney is determined by the overall power of Units which all the team have. So, in case you receive an opponent with more League members, it's just mean that whole power of the army in that League is almost the same with yours. 

Apr 18, 2019, 13:2304/18/19
02/22/16
1846

MEPHISTO said:


A dear friend of mine in the game explained to me that my league is in the diamond group for the points accumulated in the last tournament.


It appears your dear friend may of assumed wrongly. 

But that being said I would hope in the future  the number of Active league members in a league could be added to the computations as far as Brawl pairing and placement.

Apr 18, 2019, 14:4804/18/19
Apr 18, 2019, 15:07(edited)
09/29/16
195

Boris Shevchenko said:


Hello, Lords. The opponent in the League Brawl tourney is determined by the overall power of Units which all the team have. So, in case you receive an opponent with more League members, it's just mean that whole power of the army in that League is almost the same with yours. 

This is unfair to those leagues with much less members than their opponent. 


The Brawl is not based only on how much power you have as a league combined. The membership number counts considerably more. Only some of the aspects of the tournament is determined by your armies; many depend on having a large number of active members. For example Divine Quests, Hero Equipment, Champions, Castle development, etc. etc. etc.

PVP between the two leagues tends to balance itself out for the most part. No matter whose army is bigger.

The only place where army size matters is in Battlegrounds (reg or SH), and even then a much larger number of members can accumulate way more points as a smaller league - even if they have the same troop size.


My league is in Diamond tier. We have 50 members. Our opponent has 14 members. For almost every aspect of the tourney, we accumulated 3x more points than them, except on PVP (we had a few skirmishes) where we ended even on points, and Champions, where our opponent seems to have gone all out, and BGs which we rocked. We ended with way more than double their points in total. Obviously for the main part, our 3x bigger membership counted heavily in our favor.


It is the membership ratio that is the deal-breaker.


And with only 500K points in this and previous tourney, I still would say we didn't belong in Diamond tier. And neither would Mephisto if he were asked. Not to mention our opponent with only 14 members, though I cannot speak for them.

Apr 18, 2019, 14:5404/18/19
09/29/16
195

Wesley Pringle said:


MEPHISTO said:


A dear friend of mine in the game explained to me that my league is in the diamond group for the points accumulated in the last tournament.


It appears your dear friend may of assumed wrongly. 

But that being said I would hope in the future  the number of Active league members in a league could be added to the computations as far as Brawl pairing and placement.

No, he did not assume wrongly.


"Diamond  

Leagues in this tier gained 360415 - 9529690 points in the previous Tournament"


They gained more than 360415 points in first tournament so were in Diamond for second.


But yeah. As per my previous post, the number of league members should definitely be a consideration.

Apr 18, 2019, 15:0304/18/19
09/29/16
195

Wesley Pringle said:


Jaywalker said:


Personally, I do think that the range of points for the Diamond tier is set too wide. And this is probably what OP was trying to get at.


"Diamond 

Leagues in this tier gained 360415 - 9529690 points in the previous Tournament"


My little league placed in the top 10 last Brawl without much competition, made it into Diamond this round, and now have to face all the way bigger leagues vying for Top 10 where the real rewards are, i.e. the saphs. Honestly the task rewards are not all that much better than in Gold. Our opponent is also quite a bit smaller than us.

The different tiers seem to be a tad top heavy with too many leagues in Diamond and not much competition in Gold. I would suggest that the bottom end of that range be increased in future.  

This Idea I will pass on as it seems a reasonable idea for consideration that's the best I can do what do you think at least to where 1000000 is the bottom of diamond tier ?

 But just because they gave those numbers doesn't mean it was the criteria they set to enter the tier it could just be an FYI stat 

I would be hard-pressed to come up with a number mainly because I do not have a clue how many leagues and which leagues are in Diamond or Gold. We only get to see our own brawls and that of the top 10 pairings, unlike Duel where all matches were public.


That is something for devs to decide as only they know who is where and what would be a more balanced allocation according to different tiers.

Though, if I dare suggest, it would be way more fun if we could see who is doing what with whom as per Duel, and not just such a limited glimpse as now.

Apr 18, 2019, 17:5604/18/19
06/06/16
40

Hello everyone, I read each message carefully and thought about the information I received. First of all I wanted to communicate that my little league started this type of tournament directly in the diamond group. if the possibilities of my league are equal to a league of 100 players, this does not help. the potential of 100 players who create troops, spend on sapphires and revive units is much higher than that of my approximately 15/20 actual players. I don't contest the tournament, on the contrary, potentially the prizes of this tournament are better than many others. but it is certain that for my league it is impossible to have a placement higher than the one we got (44, if I remember correctly). the difference in prizes in the gold and diamond group is minimal. the first classified in gold gets 6000 sapphires, in the 7500 diamond group. we ... those sapphires we could never get them. instead in the gold group yes. This is a fact. we have been deprived of the opportunity to make a journey in the various groups and get some good prizes.

However, I thank all of you for your interest in this dilemma of mine :)

Mephisto

BiohazarDModerator
Apr 18, 2019, 22:4304/18/19
10/04/13
3817
Jaywalker said:

Wesley Pringle said:


MEPHISTO said:


A dear friend of mine in the game explained to me that my league is in the diamond group for the points accumulated in the last tournament.


It appears your dear friend may of assumed wrongly. 

But that being said I would hope in the future  the number of Active league members in a league could be added to the computations as far as Brawl pairing and placement.

No, he did not assume wrongly.


"Diamond  

Leagues in this tier gained 360415 - 9529690 points in the previous Tournament"


They gained more than 360415 points in first tournament so were in Diamond for second.


But yeah. As per my previous post, the number of league members should definitely be a consideration.

One big coiner could easily score more points than 50 small free players.  That's why I'd say score in previous tournaments is a better indicator than number of members.  
Apr 19, 2019, 01:0704/19/19
02/22/16
1846
Jaywalker said:

But yeah. As per my previous post, the number of league members should definitely be a consideration.

yes I seem to of made the same point in the post just before that :)
Apr 19, 2019, 09:1404/19/19
Apr 19, 2019, 09:15(edited)
07/10/14
345

Looking at the places where the majority of points are earned:

Champions points is the 2nd biggest points earner. That could be done by a player with no troops at all. 

Equipment is the 3rd biggest scorer and could be done with no troops. 

Both champs and equipment are directly proportional to members numbers and have no link at all to power.

The biggest points scorer is BG's. The driver to BG score is whether you have big uber coiners who are willing to run high level BG's at a loss. This is neither linked in any way to power points or number of members.

If you look at other areas, resource raiding, quest completion etc they are all proportional to number of members.

The ONLY place where power might be considered a factor is PvP. But most brawls will go off with virtually no PvP points because the leagues involved are allies or at least not in open hostility with each other.

So basically power was a very bad choice with either very little thought put into it, or a lack of understanding of how the mechanics would play out for real (i.e. very little PvP).