um..  i think you guys are forgetting who and how the NAP was made with kt and the Coralition.

it was never going to work because the players in the league never wanted it in the first place. it was made and posted without the consent of the majority of captains.....  oh and then he quit the game.

it was a bogus NAP and we all got stuck with it.

Jezebel said:

Oracle said:

I made it my gaming goal, together with many players to destroy the NAP. And I can say today that Mission is 89% accomplished. The NAP is no more. 

our next goal is to destroy/\make it such that beacon boundaries are gone. And they are gone in the west and East. only the south and North remain. Gone are the times when KoK owns 52 beacons, while leagues like ADR own none. gone are the times when KT sit comfortably with 70 beacons( did you know that some members are given beacons in KT to use for DE . Now those bullies who made me quit for 6 moths are fighting each other. How sweet revenge can be.

I am 100% in support of Sarah Walker. NAP's have to go, together with terrotorries. 

you and what army??? I am pretty sure that you had absolutely nothing to do with the dissolution of the big NAP that was formed during the beacon wars between KT and Coralition

You are right I don't, sorry about that. How can I take credit for such an evil act of greater good. My mistake. 

John Sss said:

um..  i think you guys are forgetting who and how the NAP was made with kt and the Coralition.

it was never going to work because the players in the league never wanted it in the first place. it was made and posted without the consent of the majority of captains.....  oh and then he quit the game.

it was a bogus NAP and we all got stuck with it.

i wasn't involved with the leagues that were in the NAP at the time but was when it ended - I got a history lesson when I joined Destiny

just an FYI the NAP was actually ended by the leagues who made it - there was no longer a need for it - leagues that had nothing to do with the KT/Coralition war wanted in the NAP so they could be safe from the big leagues that were in it - it was becoming a monster to deal with and most of the leagues wanting in had no history with the war

Surprised by the response to such an old thread. Same old characters showing up, which isn't a surprise. Diplomacy is a large factor in the game and always will be. Fact!!!. But let me add my thoughts on NAPS:

1. Formal Alliances and Peace status

Formal agreements between leagues that have implications as to who can hit what etc. Known by the entire server via a leagues embassy, and changes of these agreements are seen by all, and can indicate a change in relations.

2. NAP's

Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants in a dishonourable manner (i.e. "I hit your beacons, but by the way, I am pulling out of the NAP now")

Personally, I think both play a part in the larger meta-game, but leagues should be very wary of NAPs, as not all will honour NAP rules. In fact, the dishonourable use them to bide time and plan their assaults. They will not give warning by first withdrawing from a NAP as you could a formal Alliance/Peace status. They will attack first and leave the NAP shredded to pieces.

Trentos said:

Surprised by the response to such an old thread. Same old characters showing up, which isn't a surprise. Diplomacy is a large factor in the game and always will be. Fact!!!. But let me add my thoughts on NAPS:

1. Formal Alliances and Peace status

Formal agreements between leagues that have implications as to who can hit what etc. Known by the entire server via a leagues embassy, and changes of these agreements are seen by all, and can indicate a change in relations.

2. NAP's

Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants in a dishonourable manner (i.e. "I hit your beacons, but by the way, I am pulling out of the NAP now")

Personally, I think both play a part in the larger meta-game, but leagues should be very wary of NAPs, as not all will honour NAP rules. In fact, the dishonourable use them to bide time and plan their assaults. They will not give warning by first withdrawing from a NAP as you could a formal Alliance/Peace status. They will attack first and leave the NAP shredded to pieces.

Plenty of generalities (which simply aren't true) in there, similar to his last post which was based on a false either-or dilemma.  This time he has an incorrect definition of a NAP which is pretty sad.

What a horrendous definition of a NAP Trentos has laid out. My understanding is that NAP stands for: No Attack Policy.   As opposed to an "informal agreement to create standoff between leagues until one side dishonors the NAP".

----

The coralition NAP didn't do what trentos claims a NAP is.  Instead, it actually created one of the strongest alliances the server had ever seen that lasted for more than a year.

After the goal of the NAP was accomplished and we no longer felt KT was a threat to us (Roane quit), we dissolved it since the goal was to team up to protect each other and fight against the biggest coiner that game had ever seen up to that point (Roane).  

If memory serves me right, DJ made a post on the forums when it dissolved, along with one when it was formed outlining the purpose.

NAP's have an excellent place in a game of strategy that hinges on working with other trustworthy people.

-----

In the past, using in-game mechanics (embassy status's) have hurt Destiny along with a number of other leagues on the map.  

I'll share one of our experiences that excludes a NAP:

Destiny used to be apart of some sort of super alliance toward the beginning of the server with the other top leagues that used embassy status to outline our relationships.  Then we left.  

KoC used their "embassy peace status" to hold our beacons after KoK had hit them.  If we had only had a NAP with KoC (no embassy peace status), this couldn't of happened and we would of been allowed to fight for our beacons instead of being stuck waiting 3 days to do anything and allowing our enemies to stack our beacon for 3 days before fighting back.  Those of you who play the beacon game, know that time is of the essence when capturing beacons back and forth.  

So while embassy status (especially peace status) does serve it's place, especially for leagues that do completely trust one another, I feel NAP's work great in place of embassy status with leagues you don't have complete trust with, but are willing to put it out there that you made a contractual agreement (NAP) to not hit one another.  If they don't have honor and break their word, then it's game on!  

NAP's serve their place and they have been very beneficial for some, and completely worthless for others (especially when dealing with dishonorable leagues).

----

A third personal experience showcases a bad use of a NAP:

The Coralition and Unforgivens spent approx 2 months in TS (many hours) designing and agreeing to a NAP.

The day it was formed (a couple hours afterwards)  Shin broke the NAP.  Every marshal in the NAP was made aware of the breach and the issue was attempted to be sorted.

The next day, Shin broke the NAP a second time and that was the end of Destiny participating in a terrible NAP.  

Many hours of discussions, months of meetings and agreements gone in a matter of two days after it was formed due to the Unforgiven's side being unwilling to uphold their agreements / holding their players accountable for their actions, along with my un-willingness to put up with an work with dishonorable people.  I gave them a chance, they broke their word twice immediatly, and I cut my losses and walked away at that point.

----

Morale of the uber-long post:

- Embassy status can serve a purpose and has worked well for some, and horribly for others.

- When working with un-trustworthy / dishonorable parties, it's nearly pointless having a NAP.

- In the earlier example of the Coralition NAP, it was one of the best things that ever happened when working with trusted / honorable parties.

I knew Test would be interested in NAPs. I reckon he would claim to have created the while idea,

Test:

When working with un-trustworthy / dishonorable parties, it's nearly pointless having a NAP

Thanks for taking my side in a debate for once Test, rather than go ballistic with your insults. Congrats for that.

Although some of your history is blurred, and obviously tied to you obsession with this Emperor Shin character.

Test:

The next day, Shin broke the NAP a second time and that was the end of Destiny participating in a terrible NAP

And as for my league we were always honourable to the NAP that was in place. All I remember (after you begged to rejoin the NAP) was attacks on Unforgiven Knights assets and a later notice that you wanted to withdraw from the said NAP. Dishonourable by every means.

Trentos said:

And as for my league we were always honourable to the NAP that was in place. All I remember (after you begged to rejoin the NAP) was attacks on Unforgiven Knights assets and a later notice that you wanted to withdraw from the said NAP. Dishonourable by every means.

wow - 2 lies in 2 differet posts back to back, I'd say impressive, but it's right on par for what comes out of your mouth in general.

Considering both of your previous posts posts were terrible - one filled with logical fallices and the other with a terrible interpretation of what the definition of what a NAP is, I'd say you're par for the course.

At no point did I ever come into TS begging to re-join the NAP.  

Also in regards to league boundaries or playing god, that would be Shin.

His posts are still on the forum about his Super alliance he wanted to make with the top league where he got to decide how much defense he would require for someone to have in order to be allowed to have a beacon, along with a map drawn for where certain leagues were allowed to be at.

And then you go onto contradict yourself saying that I attacked UK at the same that I was asking to rejoin then I left again (what happened to re-joining, lol)?

I'll point out some FACTS below.

At no point did I beg to get in or ask for permission to leave.  I gave noticed to every marshal by in-game mail that I was out of the NaP, and 2 months later you guys got whacked by us.

Let's look at some timelines:

NaP "signed" in TS by all marshals involved and put on a google doc on July 9.

http://prntscr.com/ezldqw - July 10

 http://prntscr.com/ezldfl - July 10

We signed a NAP, Shin from Emps repeatedly broke the NAP, and I talked about how and why we left the NAP.

2 months later we went and whacked the other Unforgivens since Emps were too cowardly to hold any beacons.

http://prntscr.com/ezlcoj - Sept 10

-----

Far from dishonerable.

As always, we let our troops do the talking, unlike trentos who brags on the forums about never loosing anything and just repeatedly cries while making up plenty of lies time and time again.

As usual you put your own spin on the facts Test. I call this dishonourable, even pure lying.

Destiny had indeed left the NAP after Emperors, however in a subsequent NAP meeting (which you omitted in your post) I was a Knights delegate and you asked to be let back into said NAP. There was a show of hands, Destiny was back in the NAP, and a document produced to prove this. Many others were present and know this to be fact!!!

As for my explanation of what a NAP is, I think you have produced a shining example of my description.

As for the putting troops on the line, mine were there. Although you used half a dozen of your mighty coralition partners to do the heavy lifting. Fact!!! I kept names and numbers (screenshots) of it all. You'd still be using profiteers to this day, if the likes of Dragoni and KoK Delete etc didn't get sick of your Grand Marshall BS.

Trentos said:

As usual you put your own spin on the facts Test. I call this dishonourable, even pure lying.

Destiny had indeed left the NAP after Emperors, however in a subsequent NAP meeting (which you omitted in your post) I was a Knights delegate and you asked to be let back into said NAP. There was a show of hands, Destiny was back in the NAP, and a document produced to prove this. Many others were present and know this to be fact!!!

As for my explanation of what a NAP is, I think you have produced a shining example of my description.

As for the putting troops on the line, mine were there. Although you used half a dozen of your mighty coralition partners to do the heavy lifting. Fact!!! I kept names and numbers (screenshots) of it all. You'd still be using profiteers to this day, if the likes of Dragoni and KoK Delete etc didn't get sick of your Grand Marshall BS.

Funny how you now go off on another tangent and start on yet another LIE where you ramble on and make up a story about me being some sort of grandmarshal.  I wonder if everyone else in the coralition would agree with that statement?  

Profiteers?  As I recall, KoC got all the spoils of war from whacking Unforgivens (they are in the corner that Unf used to be in). Destiny didn't gain anything except helping out a fellow Coralition NAP member (KoC), expending some of our troops in the massive number of beacon take-downs, and bragging rights to go with it all.  Not to mention all the fun that was had :D

In regards to the NaP - I did re-join it. Emps / Unforgivens were still tools.  And I (along with everyone else in the coralition) left.  Then based on what you said it sounds as if everyone went and whacked you guys.  All marshals were made aware when I left the second time (same as the first) via personal in-game mail.

So it's not just your inability to work with me, but also everyone else in the coralition (even after being given a second chance and re-joining after your side's repeated violations).

Well said Trentos.  Thanks for clarifying that key point about how worthless the Unf / Emps are to work and make agreements with.  

While the Coralitoin NAP thrived, the Unforgiven NAP was proven worthless on back to back accounts, great distinction Trentos.

"In regards to the NaP - I did re-join it"

So you didn't rejoin, but now you admit you did? Hard to trust a word that comes out of your mouth. Your use of "I" and "Me" in your ramblings just shows what kind of a sociopath you really are.

Trentos said:

"In regards to the NaP - I did re-join it"

So you didn't rejoin, but now you admit you did? Hard to trust a word that comes out of your mouth. Your use of "I" and "Me" in your ramblings just shows what kind of a sociopath you really are.

Again with the selective text propaganda, leaving out the rest of the context so you can make up even more nonsense.

Just like in the chronicles.  Pathetic.

-----

You've got nothing left except name calling...impressive!

It's what the people on the forums have come to expect from ya.

lol this thread was started 8 months ago so its old news - the game is dying though so I suppose there is nothing new to flame about

as is the dissolution of the NAP and the Coralition

I don't see any point in carrying on with this thread ... just sayin

as for Destiny profiting from hitting Unforgivens they did not keep ANY Unforgiven beacons they took down - they all went to other leagues

Destiny as stated had some fun - that's what it was all about

Thanks DJ for you explanation. 100% correct to my knowledge. The Unforgiven Knights kept committed to this NAP until the dying days. That is until our assets were attacked by a NAP member, and said NAP was torn up.

I refer back to my original opinions on NAPs, given this is was the topic of debate:

"Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants, sometimes in a dishonourable manner"

This is just my take on then, but they are part of the greater meta-game whether players like them or not. That was all I was trying to say before Test started trolling me as usual.

Trentos said:

Thanks DJ for you explanation. 100% correct to my knowledge. The Unforgiven Knights kept committed to this NAP until the dying days. That is until our assets were attacked by a NAP member, and said NAP was torn up.

I refer back to my original opinions on NAPs, given this is was the topic of debate:

"Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants, sometimes in a dishonourable manner"

This is just my take on then, but they are part of the greater meta-game whether players like them or not. That was all I was trying to say before Test started trolling me as usual.

Trentos is still having troubles with the timeline it appears.

DJ did such a good job of outlining everything and yet Trentos is making up more lies...yet again.  *sigh*

The NAP was "torn up" well before any hits happened.  All marshals were mailed in-game of the dissolution.  Attacks happened afterwards.  No one was attacked by a NAP member because there was no NAP when your beacons were wiped out.

----

I've already highlighted that NAP's have major success or failure based in part upon who the NAP is held with.  

- The one with the coralition is a shining example of how well things can work.  

- The one with Unforgivens is a shining example of how horrible and worthless they can be.

The definition of a NAP is not an "informal agreement to create standoffs" but rather a Non Agression Pact (NAP)

- it tends to succeed or fail based on who the agreement is made with and how well it's outlined, managed, and/or upheld by said parties.

Usual trolling complete :D

Test:

"The NAP was "torn up" well before any hits happened. All marshals were mailed in-game of the dissolution"

A blatant lie. Knights fortress was hit several times, and we waited hours to get notification that Destiny were withdrawing from the NAP. Retribution was fast and strong. Destiny.Fullstop, Kok Delete all went down. Coralition members kicking players to save defense etc. Was a disgrace. Just don't get me started on all the other Coralition members crying for mercy, and KoK leadership jumping ship to strengthen Destiny's remaining beacons 55555

But feel free to put you own spin on events Test. Like I always say, everybody deserves the right to express their opinions in the forums.

Trentos said:

Test:

"The NAP was "torn up" well before any hits happened. All marshals were mailed in-game of the dissolution"

A blatant lie. Knights fortress was hit several times, and we waited hours to get notification that Destiny were withdrawing from the NAP. Retribution was fast and strong. Destiny.Fullstop, Kok Delete all went down. Coralition members kicking players to save defense etc. Was a disgrace. Just don't get me started on all the other Coralition members crying for mercy, and KoK leadership jumping ship to strengthen Destiny's remaining beacons 55555

But feel free to put you own spin on events Test. Like I always say, everybody deserves the right to express their opinions in the forums.

At a time when (I assume) everyone was hoping this discussion was over, Trentos continues with his crying and lying and brings up new subjects.

When will he stop?  He sounds cranky, maybe he needs to be put down for his NAP  #mommy411

Trentos said:

And as for my league we were always honourable to the NAP that was in place. All I remember (after you begged to rejoin the NAP) was attacks on Unforgiven Knights assets and a later notice that you wanted to withdraw from the said NAP. Dishonourable by every means.

Destiny leadership discussed the NAP in our facebook chat at length and we NEVER wanted to be part of a NAP with Unforgivens or Emps BUT its what the Coralition wanted - we being part of the Coralition agreed to it

While we were in discussions with Unforgivens and Emps regarding this NAP our beacons were hit by some Unforgiven leagues "for points" or test hits whatever doesn't matter - Unforgiven members were not made aware of the discussion and our beacons were hit during the process this was just ONE of the reasons Destiny withdrew

again - this is no longer relevant as the NAP and the Coralition have been null and void for quite some time now