You're relying that much on card in stoneskin/immunity?

Also,

"Arbiter + Lyssandra + Lydia + Skullcrown"

Lydia is the direct counter to cardinal unless you're using a champ like tormin to die and use up her ability.

Yup. My win rate against those types of teams I listed is almost 100%. The only times I lose, is when for whatever reason, all of my champs don't end up dying. It's usually some combination of terrible luck on their debuffs not landing, not getting critical hits, move orders being weird, speeds being too slow, etc.

Brakus :) My typical Cardinal team is Skullcrown + Brakus + Rotos + Cardinal.

lemme just pull those meta champs out of my vault.  Thanks for the advice!

Take what you will from the post. I'm just giving examples of teams that I see, which I have no difficulty at all beating, vs those I avoid. I expect others will similarly avoid those teams.

I think the other thing to take from this post is that if you want to progress on offense you should plan on using different teams instead of refreshing until you find the one type of team you can beat. Or play speed race roulette. 

I've had to give up on the speed race rng.  Go second team is working much better for me lately, but even then it's tough to find decent matchups.

Stone Skin cardinal is completely rng for me as well, guess I'm choosing bad matchups.  I'm not seeing those blender teams on defense anymore though.

I've always had a slow arbiter so I've never speed raced.  

Blender teams have gone extinct in tag as well.  Everyone is learning how bad a defense it is.  And the basic speed nuke teams as well.

I've never tried the cardinal approach. I think it is less viable in upper tag tiers, so not worth building just for another option in classic. 

I have never lost to a Cardinal team. They are easy to kill.

This is the big one.

Being solidly competive up in G4 and G5... and into high silver and low gold in tag... it requires a stable of champs you use for arena, and a variety of strats to beat the current meta teams. If you just want to try and outspeed people and/or bruteforce wins with your standard teams at the G4+ Classic/G1 Tag level, it is going to be super frustrating.

It's not about you as attacker vs Cardinal. Of course they are easy to kill, just bring a nuker with block revive.

It's about your def teams. If your def team is a speed nuker team without block revive, like Arbiter + Lyssandra + Uugo + Trunda, every Stone-Cardinal will defeat your def easily.

On offense sure. But they also are frustrating on defense for people who used Speed teams on their defenses, pretty much a loss in the log every time. Stoneskin killed the speed meta more than anything else ever.

Lol. You beat me to it. :D

I did win the speed race. 😜

Yes. This.

It's almost comical, really. Every refresh there is at least two, sometimes as many as four teams that are absolutely effortless to beat. The specific team makeup I use isn't always the same - against most teams it is Skullcrown + Rotos + Brakus + Cardinal. But sometimes I swap out either Skullcrown or Rotos for Serris. Sometimes I bring in Cruetraxa as well.

Point is that if you have no way of dealing with Cardinal, your team is dead in the water, and you'll just get beat on repeatedly.

Lydia definitely helps, because she removes a big chunk of Cardinal teams - but even with Lydia, you can still be countered by someome just running a level 1 Torturehelm. It does limit their options if they don't have an actual RoD champ like Brakus, though.

I really hope you all are not blaming players for the diaster of Adding G5and changing matchmaking. 😂

My Defence of Arb, Prince K, Madame S and Roto before G5 and matchmaking changes got hit maybe 1 or 2 times a day. since G5 matchmaking changes I have been getting hit 3 or 4 times an Hour, so not sure how that is my fault.

As to your other suggestions on GET GUD! or should I say GET SUPER LUCKY AND PULL THESE CHAMPS.

I use Prince K Brogni MS and Roto for slow Tormin Teams, I use my defense team on SS teams and win close to 90% against both, I do not have the patience to refarm gear to make a go 2nd team, yes I know that is on me.

I will see what they change and how they compansate for the mess they made, but i refuse to play this Game that I am spouse to enjoy 24/7 just to maintain a ranking I have maintained for almost a year.

I read Kram's initial post and the replies as ways to be proactive (which will be valid after Arena gets back to a better place) rather than just waiting for those changes to kick in. 

Nice advice for newer players. Use Rotos...

I really think you guys are missing the point of my post. I'm not saying anything at all about what teams you should run on offense. I'm saying, if you have the option, don't run those above teams on defense. Of course if you have no other choice, then the point is moot. But especially now, with the way the arena matchings are set up, if you can avoid making your team an easy target, it'll go a long way towards keeping you at your rank.