It's a 10x during a fusion, so most people will be pulling primarily based on how many points they need for the fusion - the fusion champ looks decent and it's a fragment event, which are generally easier, so I'm going for him. 

Not a bad move to put champs who are good on Bommal for the 10x really, though they still need to nerf him a bit, either the mechanics or the exact numbers. 

Agree on 10x.  But I don't expect a nerf nor think we should.  The difficulty bar has been raised, as we should expect with a new rotation.  I can't make fun of noobs stuck on normal 10 then complain that I beat the other 2 rotations on Hard so should expect this to be easy with current roster/gear.  I give myself <50% chance of beating DT this month, oh well.  That's why I consider myself late game not end-game.  I will always be a step (month or months) behind.  But that's good, I always have something new to try and beat.

Which is fine, but when dealing with the power creep it'd be a better idea to add a "brutal" version of DT and balance the new bosses to be roughly on par with the existing ones for normal and hard. I don't think it's particularly good design to take away accessible content from early game players just to please the late game ones, especially when it's unnecessary.

@Trips

I agree with you on some points, I disagree on some other points. I think it is logical that content becomes more difficult if you progress in a game and I like some of your ideas and input.

The problem I have is that the rising difficulty should be applied to new content. 

In the case of Bommal it has been applied to existing difficulty so instead of an option to progress the players have been actively degressed. 

They could have solved the problematic with making 3 DT's...easy, hard and brutal...each Doomtower would have different fixed bosses.

Instead of fixed champion fragments for Secret rooms, they could have put universal fragments with differeing numbers to them: Easy -> 1 fragment, hard -> 3 fragments, brutal -> 5 fragments

They could have added -> Epic champ from DT 100 fragments, Legendary from DT -> 200 fragments

 With this, they would have an open ended possibility to generate new content and difficulties...but the way they implemented this is to kick the progress done so far. 

Just my2cents

It's a delicate balance, but everything they do will be designed to increase $$$.  Easy content doesn't do this.  Yes some people quit, but 99% were f2p so they don't care.  Putting the new boss at 10 and not 20 was the only thing I disagree with.  Would have saved us 1 day of forum crying :) lol

And I don't want a 3rd level of DT.  

Is this just about naming and expectations? What if Doom Tower was called Brutal and Nightmare? Do you think that would actually help with conceptualizing that DT is mid to late game content?

No, it's about not letting power creep in the upper segments of the player base take away content from the lower segments. This isn't a game of skill, it's a game of resources. People who have played/paid for a long time will be ahead of those who haven't, that's a simple fact of the game. That's not necessarily a problem as long as you're aware of it and work around it, but it is if you adjust all content upwards instead of adding more on top of what you already have.

This is what difficulty levels in games are for, to make the content accessible to everyone, and why game devs will sometimes add new and higher difficulty levels to mature games (e.g. hardcore modes seems to be popular these days). It's hardly a new concept, nor is it an uncommon concept. That's presumably why there even is a normal and hard version of DT to begin with, so why would you not build on that? There are exceptions, as some games don't do that and take some sort of perverse pride in being spiteful (and from what I've seen the communities for those are so toxic that the game should be sold with a hazmat suit), but there's an important difference. I've yet to see a single game like that that'll arbitrarily shift the goal posts. They may get more difficult the further in you get, but they won't just take away your progress in the middle of it. You can be sure that the game won't be dangling a treat on a string in front of you and make you chase it but never catch it just for the sake of it.

The content is there, there's no reason to restrict it to certain players by claiming it's content for game stage X. Additional difficulty levels take care of that problem already, it's their reason for existing, and the rewards is the motivation for trying. There's certainly no reason to add that restriction post hoc. You're not only increasing the entry threshold for new players, you're also taking away things from players who have already had access to it. That's far worse than just never giving them access to it to begin with.

To plarium this is the answer to all of our concerns:

You can buy and pull shards for a low chance to get those champs if you do not already have them.  

Why would they fix something they put in the game to get you to spend more money?  Working as intended folks.

This isn't a game of skill, it's a game of resources.  

Of course resources have a lot to do with your success. But saying that the game has nothing to do with skill is just not true. For example, a skillfull player like the content creator Coldbrew made a team beating hard DT Bommal with the rare Dwarf Master Butcher*, a champ nobody ever recognized before and nobody else used. Everybody else tried teams with incredible high resistance for Bommal in hard DT, what brings the need of incredible good gear. Developing that team arround Master Butcher, with no legendaries, beating hard DT stage 50, was possible because of his player skill, not of his resources.

*Master Butcher has the following passive: When attacked, heals all allies equal to the amount of damage taken. Does not work against bosses. 

Dreadbombs are minions of the boss, so the passive works against them.

Actually i would say doomtower is one of the only areas requiring thought, which is why i kind of like it

Mostly the game is about grinding, but its a bit more than grinding with doomtower.

That's nice. Now tell him to do the same thing without Master Butcher. That is a resource, although one that isn't the hardest to get in this specific instance. I'll admit that one could argue remembering that the champion in question has that passive could be considered skill, but then I never said skill was completely irrelevant to your success. It's not, there's plenty that can be said about proper gearing and team composition, but your skill is useless without the resources to exploit it. You can come up with the mathematically perfect team and it won't make a difference if you don't have the right champions with the right gear with the right stats on them. In a game based entirely on skill, there are no prerequisites to your success. In Raid, there is.

In this case I suspect Plarium had forgotten about that particular passive. I highly doubt they designed the boss with a vulnerability to that very specific champion in mind. Even so, if they actually did, I would consider that a bad thing.

If MacGyver builds a flying airplane from the stuff of a scrap yard, you would say that's not because of his skill, he just had the right resources.

If it required the very specific resources that can only be found in that particular scrap yard, then arguably yes, it would be resource-dependent more so than skill. It's not a black and white issue though, assembling a working aircraft requires a lot of skill and knowledge as well, but there are many ways to build something that can fly using various different parts. If the task is to assemble something that follows a set of instructions to the letter using the exact parts listed, then yes, your success has more to do with what you have than what you can do.

But ultimately, let me put it this way instead:

If you see a video of someone playing a professional CS:GO match and are then given the exact same hardware that player, would you be able to replicate what they did? Would the player be able to do so (or get reasonably close at least) using your hardware?

If you see a video of someone building a team for the CB world record score in Raid and are then given the exact same game account as that player, would you be able to replicate what they did? Would that player be able to do so using your game account?

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that in the former case and assuming you don't happen to be a professional CS:GO player yourself and that your Raid account is extremely similar: you wouldn't be able to replicate the results while the player you watched would. And in the latter case, the exact opposite.

Well, that Boulangerie or whatever his name is has cool hair, so I think that'd be a good add to my team.

The problem I see with your and other arguments is that every single champ I've put into a team that has beaten bommal is "RNG only, resource dependent, and no skill". The boss is still too hard, no matter who beats him. I even put together a team with exclusively login champs, and the criticism of such a team is visible to anyone who visits the thread.

I very much appreciate your specific points about having content accessible to as many players as possible. I very much appreciate your tone and willingness to discuss your points. 

So this question isn't solely directed at you, it's more rhetorical, but at what point does it become a boss everyone should eventually be able to handle? How many multiple combinations of only rares, uncommons and login champs do I personally need to put together to show it's not actually that terrible? Howabout the content creators doing it with single uncommons? Most accounts I've seen where people are complaining do not yet have a full team of 5 60s. It seems the focus there should be on developing your account and Clan Boss teams long before anything else.

I think we need 39 more combinations 

I  agree,  I  keep  asking  for  full  common  teams  but  she  was  too  busy  being  a  mega  whale  on  CVC.

Whale! Pfft! I was just grinding for a darn relentless set with ANY SPEED ROLLS EVER! GRRRRRRRR!

I'm not saying this particular boss is unbeatable. I've beaten DT on normal before. I'm currently at the 71st floor on normal, so clearly I've managed to beat two iterations of him so far (I have doubts about a third, but we'll see). There are however two separate issues at work here; one directly related to the boss itself and one only indirectly so that has more to do with general difficulty creep. It is the latter I've been talking about so far.

If we're talking about the boss itself, I'm not going to hide the fact that I think it's badly designed. I'm hesistant to call it "too difficult" but rather "too restrictive", although I guess the difference is pretty academical at the end of the day. I find the frustration is mostly rooted in how those restrictions turns the entire boss into an exercise in finding a team that breaks the rules the least, and how that makes the entire thing feel artificial on the same level as these dungeon tournaments when you're only allowed to use a certain faction. Something as simple as the evil eye mastery can invalidate a champion entirely. I would imagine it gets worse the smaller your champion pool is. I think the way the dreadbombs don't seem to scale at all is probably the major source of actual difficulty and is, to my knowledge at least, the only thing that doesn't. I don't really understand the logic behind that one.

The fae boss, in contrast, don't have these restrictions and I have no particular complaints about it. Nor do I have any particular commentary on how difficult it is since I've only had one encounter so far and beat it fairly easily, but the concept is interesting if not very auto-friendly with the AI being what it is. I'm not entirely sure how the scaling works for this one, but hopefully I'll get far enough to find out.

In regards to difficulty in general, I've already said most of what I have to say. But just to reiterate; I don't think floor 10 on DT normal should be considered a particularly lofty goal when there are 110 more floors to block progress on (230 if you count hard). I don't think there should be bosses that are significantly more difficult than others to beat for the supposedly same difficulty level. Despite what I've said so far, I'm not sure if that's actually the case for this particular boss or if it's mostly a matter of people not having adapted yet, but I have my problems with it that are unrelated to the success rate. I don't think bosses should rely on artificial restrictions that will block progress just for the sake of it (e.g. frost spider being literally unbeatable without HP burn and no way around it). Finally, if content is too easy, then add more on top of it instead of raising the bar on what is already there, because there will be players for whom the content is not too easy that you'll just end up alienating for no reason.

but thats the thing.... your pointing out these bosses that are aperantly unbeatable without certain champs thats not the case frost spider on hard i beat a couple rotations back using armiger and a couple other champs but no hp burn used armiger for block revive.