Yeah don't get compound beams 16

I forgot to mention. If you're concerned about people quitting think about how many people could be quitting ay midgame. Most people aren't thinking about what the game like will be for them in the months or years in the future when they got all the powerful equipment. They're thinking about how the game feels to play for them RIGHT NOW. And when you have tons of people saying the game isn't fun for them right now, you've got a problem.

And you can once again say "learn to counter it" but know that  when you say that about seeker you're basically telling someone to learn to counter lag. You can minimize lag, but lag also just exists.

BAAB makes a good point regarding play satisfaction for new and middle level players, and I agree that their needs should be considered (I fall in that bracket I think, with an SP hovering around 6k). However I strongly feel the main reason we even see these discussions to nerf specific mechs and weapons is matchmaking. And because Plarium is not addressing matchmaking it seems to me that people, especially new-ish players, naturally focus on what they immediately experience.

Seeker is a good example. As a low level player you shouldn't even be facing it (the fact that you face it at all is the real problem). Even as a mid level player with good gear I detested seeker originally, always getting caught off-guard. But when I learned how to counter it (and no it is not learning how to counter lag :-) ), I not only stopped worrying about it but also stopped yearning for it. Do I sometimes still die to it? Of course. That's part of the fun of the game.

It is important for people on both sides of the argument to listen to each other. Just as important as it is to acknowledge when somebody is facing a difficulty against a mech, it's just as important (and useful) for that person to hear the people that are trying to help them deal with it. There will be instances when the more experience players will agree with you for sure. (E.g. compound beams are so obviously in need a nerf if it makes sense that hemlock got a nerf). But if they don't outright agree it could be there's a reason for that :-).

Finally, because Plarium is not addressing matchmaking, is there a compromise solution? Maybe one compromise is to nerf such mechs and weapons only at lower ranks, but they can't do what they did with nomad and dreadnaught which was to over-nerf every rank except max. It would need to be better thought out, which honestly might itself be expecting too much :-).

Omg.. so much about nothing.. i didnt even find powers to read all arguments but here is my point of view.

I agree with Terminator, Seeker should not be nerfed, its fine. And the way i judge it is from Hangar Showdown, sometimes i kill it with Sniper weapon, and if a mech with close quarters can not kill sniper means its not overpowered. End of story. No ifs no buts. Both players have no mods, its the best testing arena there can be to see what needs nerfed and what is not.

I agree with tar, the reason lower tiers are complaining about Seekers is not because they are OP but because they encounter retarded SP droppers fully moded and with legendary implants. When i meet such Seeker in Tournament with my 6k hangar because its stupid Grandmaster playing in expert league, i cant even break its shield for the whole duration of its appearance and it does feel overpowered. So the problem is that Developers permit SP dropping, it does not mean that everything needs nerfing so that poor Paragon could cope with it. It means that Paragon should not face Seeker at all.

And for the BAAB i dont think you listen to anyone what they saying to you so there is not much point to have this conversation further for me. And a player who thinks that it was a good thing that Nomad was nerfed says it all, if you were developer you would do the same retarded things instead of fixing matchmaking that puts people against SP droppers. 

It's a shame you won't read my arguments. I feel like I made some good ones. But terminator was insufferable so I had to call him a fucking idiot, and nobody wants to read a heated argument where insults are being thrown.

If I was a developer I would fix the matchmaking and I could fix it because I would actually know what to fix because I'd listen to the community when they told me what the problem is, which I have already said is the damn power ratings on every item in game being absolutely meaningless.

But the devs are too inept to do that. They won't even acknowledge that's the problem. They won't even give a passing acknowledgment to players that point out the actual problem. The least they could do is NERF stuff so it's not so oppressive at low ranks. 

Dreadnaught and Nomad only got their ability damage NERFed. And Nomad only got it NERFed to be similar to the mechs unlocked at respective star ranks. So it's even less than nomad. Far from unusable and untouched at max. And like I said what really ruined their usage is they got power crept. Oh well and dreadnought was hardly usable at max to begin with IIR.

Yeah I agree actually to be fair, I think they should just nerf things at lower stars, like less damage longer cooldowns and ability, and less power for weapons, but once they reach 6 stars to max then everything should perform as it was intended too, so at least then lower players aren't feeling things are over powered, it might also stop sp droppers and also bigger hanger players won't be bothered about the nerfs because when those things get to 6 star rank then they will perform as normal 

They definitely need to fix tournaments, I dont have the problem of facing stronger players, I play in the grandmaster ranks and I'm as strong as the top players, but I only ever lose because sometimes a 8k to 10k hanger player is in grandmaster 3 and I get paired with them and we face all 20k plus hangers, so I can't fight them all on my own, no one with a hanger less than 15k should be anywhere near grandmaster, so they maybe need to make hanger power limits for each ranks, showdown is the same too, so my times I get paired with players using 5 star mech in league one with hardly any mods and low weapons, but opponents are always my level at 20k, these are the only times I ever lose matches because my teamates are too weak to play against 20k plus hangers, it's so frustrating 🙄 

Please don't nerf my Boi seeker in fact his tracking and teleporting could use some work especially with scot mechs that can jump up on certain platforms and camp up there.( lacewing i looking at you)

Nah nah nah

It doesn't need to have more coverage on its teleport

I think seeker is not that op and is abilily easy to counter but a seeker with ember Guns or rewoker is realy hard to counter 

Yeah seeker definitely has some issues.

As you mentioned, ping plays a role as - especially at low SP when there aren't any mods, seeker can sometimes kill you within that ping (and more often the invulnerability) window.

But something that happens to me a lot is the indicator just being straight up wrong at times - like sometimes it'll just be white and not red, yet a seeker has indeed teleported to me, and I typically don't find out until I am almost dead - sometimes I see the lock, so I got into stealth. Then suddenly I die to the seeker behind me..

Not to mention backing up isn't always helpful, after all, the seeker can just turn around an shoot you, while still having 30-60% more damage than you do (assuming same energy capacity) - and the backing up strategy isn't really available to slow mechs like tanks and some attackers.

Now I big problem I see with seeker at low SP is somewhat the matchmaking's fault (of course) - people will get some fragment gun 8s, max them out, put them on seeker and just literally one tap EVERYTHING the moment they teleport - when really such a build should pit them against tougher opponents so they can't abuse it.

Seeker has isn't exclusively OP though, I think the issue is the range of it's usefulness is too broad - sometimes it's absolutely broken (at low SP or tanking), but much less useful in something like higher-sp cpc (hsd is pretty good for it tho).

I will also add, on a somewhat unrelated note: the opinions of new players are definitely important, given not only are many players (the majority) lower-sp, but they also both allow the game to grow more, and pr*fit more, as someone at high SP who has most or at least more of the meta stuff can't then buy said meta stuff.

The power rating is definitely not the only problem, and that's not the only factor the matchmaking takes into account.

Matchmaking is sorta always hard to make work well in games, at least in my experience. After all, how do you make a system where EVERYBODY wins >50% of the time?

Agreed. There's a lot more to it than power ratings, but any baby steps that contribute to matchmaking becoming better would be welcome.

I'm not sure what you mean by this though - ".. how do you make a system where EVERYBODY wins >50% of the time?" I've never looked at this being the goal of good matchmaking. I see the goal more as that everyone gets an equal opportunity to win but thereafter it's up to you and your skill.. a meritocracy in a sense :-). Just like in life some people will be better at some types of games and others will be better at others.

In the overall game one good step towards that has been the increased opportunities to get resources and gear (like in the battle pass), and the ECRs. During matches it means the gear on one side should not be heavily skewed against the gear on the other. I think that is a much simpler goal.

Honestly these days I personally have faced matchmaking issues a little less, maybe because of my play timings or the "equality" that ECRs have enabled. But it does happen, and I hear enough from low SP in-game friends that it is still quite bad. So I'll keep voicing my support for fixing it in this forum :-).

Yeah I'm not sure making a matchmaker where everyone wins 50% of the time is a good one. If everyone won more than that that would mean there's more bots than people in our matches.

And I don't know how you'd even make 50% happen but it seems plarium have made a matchmaker which brings everyone's win rate to about that. But it also seems like they do it by fixing matches.

One more thing I thought of a bit of a compromise so seeker isn't just "NERFed". Some people on here have said it should be able to go on roofs but I really don't think it should have any more coverage. So what if it had a smaller range but it's teleport could reach lancer and lacewing on the rooftops

Nerf indeed 😆 LMAO a bad workman always blames his tools 

Just how does that apply here

When I say 50%, I mean more as an average. On average, if the matchmaking is perfect, there should never be an imbalance in win rates.

Players with a gear advantage should face players with almost identical strength - whatever type of advantages make up that power.

It's not about a system designed to make everyone win 50% of the time, more a system that happens to do that as a result of its design.

But yes I'll agree, with or without that in mind, much could be done to improve the matchmaking in its current state.