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Countering Bombs in Arena

Countering Bombs in Arena

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21 черв. 2023, 13:3121.06.23
26.05.22
551

Countering Bombs in Arena

One of my banes in arena is that I have yet to come up with a way to overcome someone like Lord Sharzar. I thought I had a solution by putting stoneskin on a Ursula and Mosueum Mage so that I  could cleanse and rez the team only to rudely find out that stoneskin doesn't block bombs. 

Is my only way to avoid this to be faster than the other team and put out a block debuffs or to have stupid amounts of health?

I will be so happy when I finally land Helmut or Arbiter. I suppose I could develop High Khatun in the interrim but I don't know if it is worth the effort.


Advice?

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21 черв. 2023, 13:4221.06.23
26.05.22
551

Does immunity work against bombs?


21 черв. 2023, 13:5721.06.23
25.06.20
6650

My advice? Stop wasting your time with this. You have far more relevant things to devote your resources to.

21 черв. 2023, 14:2721.06.23
26.05.22
551
kramaswamy.kr

My advice? Stop wasting your time with this. You have far more relevant things to devote your resources to.

Within the game or within life in general? 

21 черв. 2023, 14:4621.06.23
20.06.19
2181

Block damage is effective.  Also there is usually a 2 turn count down so opportunities to cleanse.

21 черв. 2023, 14:5121.06.23
25.06.20
6650
Shibb

Within the game or within life in general? 

Within the game, clearly.

Arena is an endgame exercise. You're far from it. Do the best you can with what you have, but don't waste silver/etc on this. Spend those resources getting dungeons/hydra/dt/dth/twins/etc progressed.

21 черв. 2023, 15:2821.06.23
26.05.22
551
kramaswamy.kr

Within the game, clearly.

Arena is an endgame exercise. You're far from it. Do the best you can with what you have, but don't waste silver/etc on this. Spend those resources getting dungeons/hydra/dt/dth/twins/etc progressed.

I completely disagree that it is an end game exercise. There is plenty of fun to have in the lower levels of arena. That is why the lower levels exist. 

harleQuinnModerator
21 черв. 2023, 17:0521.06.23
24.02.19
7841
Shibb

I completely disagree that it is an end game exercise. There is plenty of fun to have in the lower levels of arena. That is why the lower levels exist. 

Well, it's a game. If you're having fun, that's all that matters. Optimal surely isn't as important as having fun. :D

harleQuinnModerator
21 черв. 2023, 17:0621.06.23
24.02.19
7841
Shibb

Does immunity work against bombs?


Yes. You can use Immunity sets, or a cleanser like Skytouched, Hakkorhn, or Maus Mage to remove them and place Block Debuffs to prevent their reapplication.

22 черв. 2023, 12:2622.06.23
26.05.22
551
harleQuinn

Yes. You can use Immunity sets, or a cleanser like Skytouched, Hakkorhn, or Maus Mage to remove them and place Block Debuffs to prevent their reapplication.

I have never really looked at Skytouched's kit. Interresting but your team better be designed to only nee the A2 once. The passive is horrendous and even fully booked the A2 is on a 4 turn cooldown. I suppose that is good though because it would get really really frustrating if you could build her to constantly keep up the A2. Basically she is a fire and forget champion.  


I think that Hakkorhn is probably the safest pick because it cleanses and applies a block debuff for more than one turn with the same action. At least in this predicament where you facing a bomb opponent and you are not fast enough to go first. You just want to make sure that he is your fastest champion. 


I think with this information I can probably come up with a good go 2nd team against a bomb team and have some success. 


Thank you for the help. 

22 черв. 2023, 13:1022.06.23
19.12.19
6335
Shibb

I have never really looked at Skytouched's kit. Interresting but your team better be designed to only nee the A2 once. The passive is horrendous and even fully booked the A2 is on a 4 turn cooldown. I suppose that is good though because it would get really really frustrating if you could build her to constantly keep up the A2. Basically she is a fire and forget champion.  


I think that Hakkorhn is probably the safest pick because it cleanses and applies a block debuff for more than one turn with the same action. At least in this predicament where you facing a bomb opponent and you are not fast enough to go first. You just want to make sure that he is your fastest champion. 


I think with this information I can probably come up with a good go 2nd team against a bomb team and have some success. 


Thank you for the help. 

Tag Arena is where you should be spending time testing strats against different comps.  Immunity is great against bombs, I use a high resist mith and a SS resist pythion.  Works great in tag, Live Arena is not worth strategizing for yet.  Too much time, get in and out W or L.  SOme days I only beat the bots lol, yet I still slowly climb...

22 черв. 2023, 14:2822.06.23
11.02.22
533

One of the easier ways to deal with bombs is to have your fastest champion in your team be the cleanser. This champion will likely need 500 resistance, and a Res aura certainly a bonus. Pythion and Mithrala fit this profile and are somewhat accessible..

Now for live arena, the problem is, you need 2 guys who can cleanse before your other 3 champions. Putting only one, it will get banned, and you automatically lose if the enemy has any bomb champion that goes through the ban phase.

The other option, and i dont really suggest you rely on it, Have a super fast speed lead, followed by anyone who puts block debuffs. But can you be sure you'll go first?

22 черв. 2023, 14:4422.06.23
604

just ban stoneskin crap and problem solved, not need bomber team.

ShortOnSkillzModerator
22 черв. 2023, 23:0422.06.23
24.06.19
2244
harleQuinn

Yes. You can use Immunity sets, or a cleanser like Skytouched, Hakkorhn, or Maus Mage to remove them and place Block Debuffs to prevent their reapplication.

Sorry but since you pulled Marichka your views on bombs are irrelevant.  See also poisons and HP burn.

harleQuinnModerator
23 черв. 2023, 00:5623.06.23
24.02.19
7841
ShortOnSkillz

Sorry but since you pulled Marichka your views on bombs are irrelevant.  See also poisons and HP burn.

I used the one and only Hakkorhn for a couple years, tyvm. For bombs, burn, Hegemon and Tormin. :D

23 черв. 2023, 02:1423.06.23
25.06.20
6650

So, like, I want to divert this conversation back to a point the OP made earlier. While it's fair to say "let's just play the game we can", and if it's fun to try to succeed in arena at an early stage, great, but I really want to emphasise two points:

1) It can get expensive very, *very* quickly. We're not talking just spending silver on upgrading gear - which is very expensive in and of itself. The rabbit hole that OP is looking to explore will, in short order, start involving gems for masteries, and then books for skills. And very shortly from there, it becomes "well this team didn't quite work, so who else can I try to swap out", and let's just continue this exercise until suddenly we're out of resources.

2) While doing all of that, those resources are not being spent in places that actually help progress. This is a game of exponentially-growing resources, and just like the whole "compounding interest" argument (that I particularly despise because of how simplistic it is), every time you waste something now, your longer-term returns are cut back ever more.

So if you really want to play the "let's see what happens" game, just try to do so with as little resource-investment as possible.

It's quite possible to explore team ideas without needing to invest deeply in them. For example, yes, booking that skill may take it from a 5-turn cooldown to a 3-turn one. But in an arena fight? You're almost never getting a chance to use the skill twice to begin with, and, even in the situations where you are, you'll be able to figure out if the team works long before you need to think about that. 

Same goes for those skills that go from 75% chance to land to 100%. Like - yes, you want to be at 100% because you don't want to lose a fight to a weighted coinflip. But you can see how the team works without needing to do that. Then, if it does, you can consider if it's actually worth investing in. 

23 черв. 2023, 16:3023.06.23
26.05.22
551
kramaswamy.kr

So, like, I want to divert this conversation back to a point the OP made earlier. While it's fair to say "let's just play the game we can", and if it's fun to try to succeed in arena at an early stage, great, but I really want to emphasise two points:

1) It can get expensive very, *very* quickly. We're not talking just spending silver on upgrading gear - which is very expensive in and of itself. The rabbit hole that OP is looking to explore will, in short order, start involving gems for masteries, and then books for skills. And very shortly from there, it becomes "well this team didn't quite work, so who else can I try to swap out", and let's just continue this exercise until suddenly we're out of resources.

2) While doing all of that, those resources are not being spent in places that actually help progress. This is a game of exponentially-growing resources, and just like the whole "compounding interest" argument (that I particularly despise because of how simplistic it is), every time you waste something now, your longer-term returns are cut back ever more.

So if you really want to play the "let's see what happens" game, just try to do so with as little resource-investment as possible.

It's quite possible to explore team ideas without needing to invest deeply in them. For example, yes, booking that skill may take it from a 5-turn cooldown to a 3-turn one. But in an arena fight? You're almost never getting a chance to use the skill twice to begin with, and, even in the situations where you are, you'll be able to figure out if the team works long before you need to think about that. 

Same goes for those skills that go from 75% chance to land to 100%. Like - yes, you want to be at 100% because you don't want to lose a fight to a weighted coinflip. But you can see how the team works without needing to do that. Then, if it does, you can consider if it's actually worth investing in. 

Those are certainly fair comments and concerns. If I have a really great piece of gear I am ok with throwing in the money. For just playing lower level arena for fun, I will be careful not to throw books at champions that will ultimately get replaced and are worth more elsewhere. 

harleQuinnModerator
23 черв. 2023, 23:3723.06.23
23 черв. 2023, 23:49(відредаговано)
24.02.19
7841
kramaswamy.kr

So, like, I want to divert this conversation back to a point the OP made earlier. While it's fair to say "let's just play the game we can", and if it's fun to try to succeed in arena at an early stage, great, but I really want to emphasise two points:

1) It can get expensive very, *very* quickly. We're not talking just spending silver on upgrading gear - which is very expensive in and of itself. The rabbit hole that OP is looking to explore will, in short order, start involving gems for masteries, and then books for skills. And very shortly from there, it becomes "well this team didn't quite work, so who else can I try to swap out", and let's just continue this exercise until suddenly we're out of resources.

2) While doing all of that, those resources are not being spent in places that actually help progress. This is a game of exponentially-growing resources, and just like the whole "compounding interest" argument (that I particularly despise because of how simplistic it is), every time you waste something now, your longer-term returns are cut back ever more.

So if you really want to play the "let's see what happens" game, just try to do so with as little resource-investment as possible.

It's quite possible to explore team ideas without needing to invest deeply in them. For example, yes, booking that skill may take it from a 5-turn cooldown to a 3-turn one. But in an arena fight? You're almost never getting a chance to use the skill twice to begin with, and, even in the situations where you are, you'll be able to figure out if the team works long before you need to think about that. 

Same goes for those skills that go from 75% chance to land to 100%. Like - yes, you want to be at 100% because you don't want to lose a fight to a weighted coinflip. But you can see how the team works without needing to do that. Then, if it does, you can consider if it's actually worth investing in. 

This is all true stuff. And I am a big fan of saving resources and playing for the long game....within limits though.

My counterargument is simple. It's a game. If you are having fun with something in the game, while disliking some other part of the grind, you shouldn't deprive yourself of the fun in favor of some goal 12 months away... or 6 even.

Games should be fun. Winning is fun, and playing smart with your resources helps future winning.... but telling people not to do something they enjoy in favor of slightly better long term progress is, im my humble opinion, against the spirit of playing a game to begin with.

dthorne04Moderator
23 черв. 2023, 23:5023.06.23
30.12.20
6078
harleQuinn

This is all true stuff. And I am a big fan of saving resources and playing for the long game....within limits though.

My counterargument is simple. It's a game. If you are having fun with something in the game, while disliking some other part of the grind, you shouldn't deprive yourself of the fun in favor of some goal 12 months away... or 6 even.

Games should be fun. Winning is fun, and playing smart with your resources helps future winning.... but telling people not to do something they enjoy in favor of slightly better long term progress is, im my humble opinion, against the spirit of playing a game to begin with.

Could not agree more, and I certainly was closer to kram's approach for the longest time while playing (hello never skipping advanced quests).

I think the risk of sucking the joy out of playing the game is too high. being worried about min/max'ing everything ALL the time just gets isn't a very fun place to be and can be tiring at best. 

There's always going to be optimal approaches and such, but I think it's fine - if not great - that others have differing approaches. 

harleQuinnModerator
23 черв. 2023, 23:5423.06.23
24.02.19
7841
dthorne04

Could not agree more, and I certainly was closer to kram's approach for the longest time while playing (hello never skipping advanced quests).

I think the risk of sucking the joy out of playing the game is too high. being worried about min/max'ing everything ALL the time just gets isn't a very fun place to be and can be tiring at best. 

There's always going to be optimal approaches and such, but I think it's fine - if not great - that others have differing approaches. 

A slight bit of nuance I'd like to counterpoint.... the optimal approach is playing the game in whatever way you find most fun. That is different for you versus Krama versus OP.

dthorne04Moderator
24 черв. 2023, 00:0524.06.23
30.12.20
6078
harleQuinn

A slight bit of nuance I'd like to counterpoint.... the optimal approach is playing the game in whatever way you find most fun. That is different for you versus Krama versus OP.

Fair point, one I can't disagree with. :)

Was looking at it from the standpoint of what are classically considered optimal strats in RPG games, anything where you can build up characters/accounts/etc. 

In the end finding the one that's the most fun - and thus keeping you around and enjoying yourself for the longest period of time - is the best way to play a game. :)