Lord Dave

first of all i have read a couple of post made by you and please, i have to say refrain ur language, we are on a forum and some forms of language should be manteined and some rules should be taken in consider at the time to post, so please take this as an advice or warning about ur language, next time we'll have to delete them or edit them

secondly and about ur question, take consider that the boost works different as you say. if you have a boost of 50% it does not mean that the time is cutted by the half, it means that the speed is increased a 50%

please consider reading news and tutorials threads before posting and in such wrong language. i give u a pic of how booster works:

Lord Dave

first of all i have read a couple of post made by you and please, i have to say refrain ur language, we are on a forum and some forms of language should be manteined and some rules should be taken in consider at the time to post, so please take this as an advice or warning about ur language, next time we'll have to delete them or edit them

secondly and about ur question, take consider that the boost works different as you say. if you have a boost of 50% it does not mean that the time is cutted by the half, it means that the speed is increased a 50%

please consider reading news and tutorials threads before posting and in such wrong language. i give u a pic of how booster works:

Regards

I do have respect and feel pity for de moderators around here.

They know that Plarium is screwing us over by giving less for the same (or more) amount of sapphires. But they still defend it like good employees allthough (and I hope that) they them selves play the game also and probably feel the same as we do.

Because, if using that example with the house, when it was that when using the boost you only needed 12 hours and now you'll need 16 hours and the boost still cost the same we're (the players) getting ripped off.

i am waiting on raids to hit, so i am bored, so i am here again.  so anyhow................................................the topic is about the dragon arts.  and in this case it is about eliminating a 25% construction boost that has to be reset every 3 hrs.  in this particular case i don't think that sapphires are involved, other than getting to the 50% increase.  this is a petty nerf, that imo starts off with small value in the first place.  the op is irate that he would be nerfed as a free player when there is no vision of there even being a sapphire gain from it.  what is being stolen is time.  this being due to code change in june according to alyona's article.  september minus 3 months.

if this code was changed due to wanting all formulas to be the same.  then increasing the speed to 100% would have fixed the nerf due to formula change.  now if players got confused by the wording in the dragonstone, then the wording should be better descriptive, like djmoody stated.

is there a list of all areas that were affected by the code change?

it is my assumption that the pathfinder super soldier is a hypothetical not based on code being changed in june.  if the code was changed  then that would have a huge ramification on the 50/50 coming out.  it is my assumption that this is not the case.  the pathfinder super solider is not a super soldier.  all changes in troops would be relational.  the super pathfinder would run into super griffins and golems.

so a super soldier hypothetical does not change the factual petty nerf of 25% that has to be reset every 3 hrs.

it does however show the gap between being in a strong league and a week league, as well as being a coiner or a non coiner.  just turning 75 into 391 is a huge advantage.  it is however relational to all other strong leagues and coiners.  the gap is to weak leagues and non coiners.

so the point is a 25% nerf in bonus that has to be reset every 3 hrs.  and if that were to be buffed back to the original, a better description of the actual mechanic would still be needed.

There was a change, it was implemented long time ago, longer than June, and players have accepted it. The pathfinder scenario was just to help you understand why there needed to be a change in the first place. hypothetical. 

100K pathfinders can be build in 2 years, you can build 10 K in a month, or is it 2 weeks. No need to coin, but they are bad, I will not advice one to keep them in, unless if you like battleground or raiding( they are extremely fast). they consume lots of food, even with darkening its no use. 

Nemstar said:

It would be 16hrs if the builder WANTED to build 1.5 houses but he wants to build just the 1 so building just the 1 with 50% increased speed should still be 12hours not 16hours, it'd only be 16hrs if he wished to build 1.5 houses.

Let's try again. Working speed of a builder can be measured by the number of bricks he can 'place' in the wall per hour/day/etc. Let's say he usually can place 1000 in 24 hours. If he works by 50% faster, he will be able to put 1500 bricks per 24 hours. 

Well Explained Alyona, well explained, 

Mathematically 

Look at it as 1+1 and the boost of 50% as half of that. So add another 1.

So 1+1+1. So overall you have increased the total base number now by 1/3. (33%)

1 + boost %  =  50% boost is 1/2 of 1 so it is worth .5 so add that to your base number of 1.

So now do the math... 1÷ 1.5 = .666. And the difference between that and your base # is 33%.

Its the devils work!

I.e.

4 =days 

 1= base time to complete

Normal rate = 4÷1 = 4 days to complete

50% boost = 1 + .5. Giving 1.5 base time

Boosted rate= 4 ÷ 1.5. Giving 2.666 days to complete

 ( a 33% total reduction from 4)

I have not factored in the puppy variable as that is a secret.

Mathematically 

Look at it as 1+1 and the boost of 50% as half of that. So add another 1.

So 1+1+1. So overall you have increased the total base number now by 1/3. (33%)

1 + boost %  =  50% boost is 1/2 of 1 so it is worth .5 so add that to your base number of 1.

So now do the math... 1÷ 1.5 = .666. And the difference between that and your base # is 33%.

Its the devils work!

I.e.

4 =days 

 1= base time to complete

Normal rate = 4÷1 = 4 days to complete

50% boost = 1 + .5. Giving 1.5 base time

Boosted rate= 4 ÷ 1.5. Giving 2.666 days to complete

 ( a 33% total reduction from 4)

I have not factored in the puppy variable as that is a secret.

then call the spade for a spade, and say its a 33% boost increase. 50% give a false impression.  

how to find the real speed?

BASE build time/1, you find real base speed, now add your +% speed and try

many confusion and all smoke and mirrors, we lose time build

there may be rounding by plarium (secret) but math is this

ps. I do not have all real stat that i can compare in game

why if add a little temporary (3h) need nerfed all? 

Juglar del Viento said:

Dear Lords

please follow the topic of the thread and avoid to blame against stableshed formats

in other case i will close this thread and noted as solved

Regards

............................................................................................................................................................................

what do you mean by stableshed formats?

i was translating alyona's answer:  "but a few months ago we have changed the way your bonuses are applied.  now they rise speed rather than cut time."

that is on topic.  i simply translated into the function created by this change of code.

what is actually the topic is value and the apparent change in value.  if you throw out the words build and speed.  what you have are the key words, reduction and increase.  i will try to use examples to explain my view of the relationship between reduction and increase.

If trading stocks and a stock channels between 50 and 100.

If the stock reduces by 50% down to 50$, when the stock goes back up to the original value of 100$, it is an increase of 100%.

If the stock reduces by 33% down to 66$, when the stock goes back up to the original value of 100$, it is an increase of 50%.

If the stock reduces by 25% down to 75$, when the stock goes back up to the original value of 100$, it is an increase of 33%.

Reduction = cost, a 50% off sale states the reduction of cost. {reduce the cost}.

Increase = value, after the increase, the new value is set. {increase the value}.

The 50$ reduction and 50$ increase is the same 50$. But they are different percentages. The 50$ reduction is 50% while the 50$ increase is 100%.

If 2 boxers, 1 of them 100 pounds and the other 200 pounds agree to fight at 150 pounds. They both have 50 pounds difference to meet in the middle. The 200 pounder needs to lose 25% of his body weight while the 100 pounder needs to gain 50% of his body weight. In order to meet in the middle it will cost the 200 pounder 25% of his body mass while the 100 pounder will gain 50% of his mass. They both create a difference of 50 pounds. But one of them is 25% reduction while the other is 50% increase.

Using 50$ as the median, a pseudo formula for no one to understand.

50% increase > 50 < 50% reduction at original value.

The original value 100$ > the reduced value of 50$. The increase plus the median > the median, { this creates the new value}. An increase starts at a fraction of 1.

Back to the stock. An increase on the 50$ of 50% = 25$. This sets the new value at 75$. A reduction of 33% on the 75$ = 50$. The difference between the new value of 75$ and the old value of 100$ = a 25% reduction.

Since the boost is time not money:

So to use price to represent build. Original price is 100$ for a build, reduce by 50% = 1 house for 50$ or 12 hrs. which means you can build 2 houses for 100$ or 24 hrs.

With the median being 50$, 50% increase = 1 house for 75$ or 18hrs. which means you can build 2 houses in 36 hrs. the reduction from the new value of 75$ down to the median of 50$ is 33% or 1/3.

Reduce by 50%, original value = 24 hrs/100$.

Increase by 50%, new value = 18 hrs/75$

The new value is a loss of 25% in reduction bonus. 75 = a 25% reduction from 100.

To create equal value, an increase of 100% to the median of 50 = 100$. And the reduction of 100 by 50% = 50, this multiplied by 2 = 100$.

The new value is halved, from 50% down to 25% in reduced time compared to the original value.  this is the loss of value if the mechanic was changed.

Depreciation = cost

Appreciation = value

A reduction in pay, and or, position in a company = cost

An increase in pay, and or, position in a company = value

the actual topic is value;  and this is pixels vs. real life time.

GoGo Knightmare said:

Mathematically 

Look at it as 1+1 and the boost of 50% as half of that. So add another 1.

So 1+1+1. So overall you have increased the total base number now by 1/3. (33%)

1 + boost %  =  50% boost is 1/2 of 1 so it is worth .5 so add that to your base number of 1.

So now do the math... 1÷ 1.5 = .666. And the difference between that and your base # is 33%.

Its the devils work!

I.e.

4 =days 

 1= base time to complete

Normal rate = 4÷1 = 4 days to complete

50% boost = 1 + .5. Giving 1.5 base time

Boosted rate= 4 ÷ 1.5. Giving 2.666 days to complete

 ( a 33% total reduction from 4)

I have not factored in the puppy variable as that is a secret.

A really good explanation, Gogo! I hope it helps other players to better understand the current game mechanics.

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:

Nemstar said:

It would be 16hrs if the builder WANTED to build 1.5 houses but he wants to build just the 1 so building just the 1 with 50% increased speed should still be 12hours not 16hours, it'd only be 16hrs if he wished to build 1.5 houses.

Let's try again. Working speed of a builder can be measured by the number of bricks he can 'place' in the wall per hour/day/etc. Let's say he usually can place 1000 in 24 hours. If he works by 50% faster, he will be able to put 1500 bricks per 24 hours. 

Let's imagine that 1000 Bricks is enough for a house. And our boosted builder will need 16 hours to place 1000 Bricks. In 12 hours he'll place much less. but you don't want to live in a house without a wall, right?

That assume you just got ONE person/builder to build the damn thing. Wanna  make a guess on how many people and time it took to make the great wall of China? If you have a boost that sound like it cust speed in half. then I would assume more workers got added to the project to throw bricks into the wall.

It's hard to get things right working with such tools you know :p

johanrayne said:

oracle said:

There was a change, it was implemented long time ago, longer than June, and players have accepted it. The pathfinder scenario was just to help you understand why there needed to be a change in the first place. hypothetical. 

100K pathfinders can be build in 2 years, you can build 10 K in a month, or is it 2 weeks. No need to coin, but they are bad, I will not advice one to keep them in, unless if you like battleground or raiding( they are extremely fast). they consume lots of food, even with darkening its no use. 

...............................................................................................................................................................

my comment on difference between coiner and non coiner /  strong league and weak league was specific to the list of bonuses, not the pathfinder itself.  i understand the purpose of the hypothetical.  i was just stating that it didn't address the limited value of the dragonstone scenario.  50% reduction build over the 33% won't break the game imo.  and it seemed that players were reacting that the 17% increase in construction would somehow create a specific pathfinder super soldier.  any increase would be relative.  

i am not confronting you. just looking for clarity.

do you know which dragon art op is talking about?  mine are at 25%.  or is there something else i am missing?

my raids are done and so am i.

later

not sure, I am not into that yet, 

djmoody said:

vakonziko said:

and I wonder why you changed this... This marketing system is mentally playing with people, so when they hear about boosts they always think about construction time instead of "speed" which is mentioned in this tutorial. Haven't seen a game mechanics like this until now with this construction time speeding instead of cutting construction build time lmao...

I have posted before that they might like to redo how the boosts work to avoid unhappy players, who don't realise the complexities of the current system and assume they are being ripped off or there is a bug. Would save them the time of having to explain it over and over again also.

But I offer nothing but quality suggestions so everything that I say is instantly ignored by Failarium.

Doing this could substantially change the balance of the game.  Lets say I have the following bonuses on my pathfinders unit type:

max lost arts: 70%

hero items: 50%

$10 50% boost item

dragon stone offense boost: 25%

level 10 infantry offense crystal: 12%

paragon status: 5%

2x 100% pathfinder offense item

level 10 fortress offense bonus: 10%

Normally, this would give your pathfinders a total offense power of 75*(1+0.7+0.5+0.5+0.25+0.12+0.05+1+1+0.1)=75*(5.22)=391

If you instead applied the bonuses the way people assume you would, where any % bonus increases the total value by that %, you end up with a total offense power of  75*(1.7*1.5*1.5*1.25*1.12*1.05*2*2*1.1)=75*(24.74)=1855.  This would certainly make for an interesting game. 

djmoody said:

vakonziko said:

and I wonder why you changed this... This marketing system is mentally playing with people, so when they hear about boosts they always think about construction time instead of "speed" which is mentioned in this tutorial. Haven't seen a game mechanics like this until now with this construction time speeding instead of cutting construction build time lmao...

I have posted before that they might like to redo how the boosts work to avoid unhappy players, who don't realise the complexities of the current system and assume they are being ripped off or there is a bug. Would save them the time of having to explain it over and over again also.

But I offer nothing but quality suggestions so everything that I say is instantly ignored by Failarium.

Doing this could substantially change the balance of the game.  Lets say I have the following bonuses on my pathfinders unit type:

max lost arts: 70%

hero items: 50%

$10 50% boost item

dragon stone offense boost: 25%

level 10 infantry offense crystal: 12%

paragon status: 5%

2x 100% pathfinder offense item

level 10 fortress offense bonus: 10%

Normally, this would give your pathfinders a total offense power of 75*(1+0.7+0.5+0.5+0.25+0.12+0.05+1+1+0.1)=75*(5.22)=391

If you instead applied the bonuses the way people assume you would, where any % bonus increases the total value by that %, you end up with a total offense power of  75*(1.7*1.5*1.5*1.25*1.12*1.05*2*2*1.1)=75*(24.74)=1855.  This would certainly make for an interesting game.