Ike said:

Upgrade Sketches are relatively few and far between for non-coiners. What buildings or treaties do folks recommend they are best used on? TIA for any suggestions.

Hello Ike! 

From what I've seen it all depends on your gamestyle.

Personally, first I upgraded my harbour to level 21 and my port to level 22 so that I can have 51K galley capacity cause I raid much. My farms have much bronze and timber and therefore 100K per raid is essential!

If you don't raid much then I wouldn't advise you to upgrade them.

Then I started upgrading my lumberyards and my forges cause I wanted to have high resource production and therefore many days of queues in all buildings. Alond with the raids I get the maximum resources per day and I build troops in all 4 buildings for many days. Having high resource production also helps you in case you don't raid. You can still build in all 4 buildings even if you don't raid much or at all. I'm still upgrading those to level 25. Too many drachmas needed truth be told!

I have upgraded my agora and my ephorate cause each one gives +10% experience points from battles (20% in total) which helps pretty much to level up. It's very useful to me since I'm an offensive player and I hit almost every week! 

I am currently upgrading my Acropolis cause there is retaliation from the players that my coalition hits. You can get your acropolis to level 26 where all your trained units will automatically be sent to Acropolis so even if you get raided or someones send a PA your units will be safe! 

At level 23 your light infantry are automatically sent to your Acropolis.
At level 24 your heavy infantry are automatically sent to your Acropolis.
At level 25 your phalanx are automatically sent to your Acropolis.
And at level 26 your cavalry are automatically sent to your Acropolis.
I think Acropolis is really worth it for everyone!

If you want to have the maximum resource production you can also upgrade Temple of Hephaestus and Temple of Panas.

I think you are covered for now.

In my opinion upgrading the warehouses and granaries and the infirmary are not so important for non-coiners as the buildings I have mentioned above! 

Ike said:

thanks! Lots of food for thought!  At first glance at least, I find the Acropolis most attractive, to protect units being built while i'm not around.

Yes it's pretty expensive though.

Here you can find almost all the required sketches for the buildings!

https://plarium.com/forum/en/sparta-war-of-empires/game-tutorials/33437_upgrade-sketches-for-buildings/

Good game to you! 

Ike said:

Ouch, lol. But thanks! I presume all those figures represent sketches *plus* drachmae?

What do you mean?

The Drachmas on the right side are for upgrading the building instantly.

But I wouldn't advise you to upgrade any building instantly since you can buy Sketches with 30% discount (I always wait for the 30% discount).

Ike said:

ah, good... I feared you had to pay the sketches *and* drachmae. Now it's only impossible, not impossibly impossible. ;)

In my opinion (and this is me taking off my mod-hat and kicking it to the curb for now), that's the 4th question on your list, the first three are:

• How many hours per day do I play? - If this number is rather low, you'll have to think about which upgrades work while you're offline, such as production buildings, but will also include items such as high Acropolis levels to secure troop builds and resources.
  
  
• Am I a builder or a fighter? Many players, either consciously or unconsciously, will set themselves a target level up to which their emphasis is on growth and development rather than on conflict. For some this is around level 30, for others such as myself it's around level 80. Up to this point, every upgrade will be one that benefits growth, rather than raw offensive might.
  
  
• Am I a defensive or offensive player? If you are an offensive player, you will probably not only receive higher percentages of resources through raids, positions and even tournaments, but will also be interested in all those upgrades that produce, protect or respawn fallen units (and some misc. ones such the "Temple of Demeter" to lower your consumption costs).
  

Divide and Conquer

Understand which buildings and upgrades are available and condense these many options into manageable groups, which will give you a better overview and make your final decisions easier. 

• Production Upgrades - Farms, lumberyards and forges will be all the more important if you are a more casual and defensive player, allowing for production during offline-times.
  
  
• Multiplier Upgrades - The same applies to upgrades that increase your production, such as the diverse temples available. Here you should always check which type upgrade is superior: is it better to upgrade a forge my one level or invest in a "Temple of Hephaestus" upgrade?
  
  
• Security Upgrades - A number of upgrades are designed rather for defensive players, such as the Infirmary and the high-level Acropolis upgrades. If you plan to do your fighting at home, then these will be essential, along with fortifications and decor.
  
  
• Transport Upgrades - These you will need regardless, but IMO only up to specific levels: a Harbour (level 22), a Port (level 21) and a Lighthouse (level 20) will, together with GP transportation upgrades, get you over the 50k transport capacity threshhold which Xena rightfully marks high, but after that these building upgrades become less important.
  
  
• High-level Agreements - Again, if you're a fighting man (were your nick "Patton" I'd know, but "Ike" was bit more circumspect :-), you might consider high-level upgrades for some favourite unit types, but to be honest, it will be many years before you've upgraded all city agreements to the point where you will have to invest sketches.
  

From a personal perspective: I've been playing these and similar games for decades and have always fared well by first concentrating on a healthy and resilient economy, meaning anything that produces is more important than everything else. "It's the economy, stupid." is the famously misquoted line coined by James Carville, advising, as a campaign strategist, Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign, and I've never seen that advice fail.

Now that I have not only not answered your question, but have probably added more variables for you to ponder, straight out my mgmt. playbook "When someone brings you a problem, make sure he takes it with him when he leaves, and give him a second one to solve for on the way.", here's a few closing thoughts:

"Get an Overview of your options" and "Make a plan"! Although no plan will last you the year or two which you will need to get to the point where only sketches get you ahead, plans can be adapted as you go along.

Cheers
P.

PS: For a non-coiner the path to sketches is Drachmas. Be stingy with your cash and you will find it much easier to afford the first high-level building upgrades. In all the time I have been playing SWOE, I have spent Drachmas only on Artisans, Fortifications, Decor and Sketches (and always waiting for WoF or global sales); no troops or champs, no boosts or hidden paths, no reviving of troops, and most certainly no using Drachmas to speed up processes that will complete in time on their own (see my very first and most important MMO rule which has served me well since my early 1980s MUDs: "Don't buy anything that dies.")

Thank you as well. Great info to digest. My drachmae so far have gone to Fortifications and one Decor item which is really a fortification (the sappers). The one other thing I've spent them on is city expansion as needed. I don't think there's any other way to do that? I know I'll spend them on sketches soon enough, not sure about artisans.

Ike said:

Thank you as well. Great info to digest. My drachmae so far have gone to Fortifications and one Decor item which is really a fortification (the sappers). The one other thing I've spent them on is city expansion as needed. I don't think there's any other way to do that? I know I'll spend them on sketches soon enough, not sure about artisans.

A second Artisan is essential in my opinion. But not more than that. Since you will play the game for a long time and you have patience your building upgrades will be over, sooner or later!

Xena said:

A second Artisan is essential in my opinion. But not more than that. [...]

I never miss an opportunity to be contradictory, so here goes: :-)

I have been playing now for about 15 months and at around the 12-month-mark, I began having the first difficulties, for lack of sketches, of putting all my artisans to work. In that first year, though, my artisans (in the 6th month I invested in my 4th artisan), were working 24/7. It is difficult to say how many months of building upgrades I would be behind, had I relied on only two or three artisans, but I doubt that, even with hindsight, I would do it differently today. 

True, today the unemployment rate among my artisans is between 50% and 75% but as expensive as the 3rd and 4th artisans were*, I would still rather invest 8k drachmas into additional artisans than fall behind in building upgrades by multiple months. But I suppose that is something everyone will have to decide for themselves.

m2cw

Cheers

P.

*Don't exactly recall the prices for artisans:

2. artisan: 1.500 Dr.
3. artisan: 3.000 Dr.
4. artisan: 4.500 Dr.

Is this right, or am I misremembering??

EDIT - PS: And on occasion, all four do get a gig, but admittedly, that isn't often :-)

The Irate Penguin said:

Xena said:

A second Artisan is essential in my opinion. But not more than that. [...]

I never miss an opportunity to be contradictory, so here goes: :-)

I have been playing now for about 15 months and at around the 12-month-mark, I began having the first difficulties, for lack of sketches, of putting all my artisans to work. In that first year, though, my artisans (in the 6th month I invested in my 4th artisan), were working 24/7. It is difficult to say how many months of building upgrades I would be behind, had I relied on only two or three artisans, but I doubt that, even with hindsight, I would do it differently today. 

True, today the unemployment rate among my artisans is between 50% and 75% but as expensive as the 3rd and 4th artisans were*, I would still rather invest 8k drachmas into additional artisans than fall behind in building upgrades by multiple months. But I suppose that is something everyone will have to decide for themselves.

m2cw

Cheers

P.

*Don't exactly recall the prices for artisans:

2. artisan: 1.500 Dr.
3. artisan: 3.000 Dr.
4. artisan: 4.500 Dr.

Is this right, or am I misremembering??

EDIT - PS: And on occasion, all four do get a gig, but admittedly, that isn't often :-)

Yes that's the correct price of the artisans.

Personally I started when the game started 3 years ago.

Got a second artisan in the first month. I had all my buildings upgraded to level 20 in almost 6 months.

I was done by the end of September if I recall correctly. 

The huge difference is that the time needed to upgrade the buildings was way less that it is today! 

If I had started playing after the increase on time upgrades I would probably need at least 3 artisans truth be told!

But I was lucky (if I can call myself that) and I didn't spend many drachmas on Artisans.

I wasn't so lucky though with spending my drachmas cause when I built my towers (all 20 of them) I paid 1000 drachmas for each one (plus the gates and the walls) cause there was no wheel of fortune and therefore no discounts! 

Xena said:

If I had started playing after the increase on time upgrades I would probably need at least 3 artisans truth be told!

But I was lucky (if I can call myself that) and I didn't spend many drachmas on Artisans.

Ah, the good ol' days :-); was before my time. Buying 3rd and 4th artisan seemed terribly expensive at the time, but now, with 1.000 sketches costing 7.000 to 8.000 drachmas, even when on sale, it's all become relative.

I wasn't so lucky though with spending my drachmas cause when I built my towers (all 20 of them) I paid 1000 drachmas for each one (plus the gates and the walls) cause there was no wheel of fortune and therefore no discounts! 

I've bought a few decor items on occasion without active discounts, but all my towers, walls, even the artisans were 25% to 50% WoF sales, don't know where I'd be without WoF and global discounts.

Ike said:

thank you for all the insights. A great thread for a newbie like me.

One sign of a complex, challenging game, is that there isn't one simple template that can be followed which will guarantee success, the number of variables involved and the predilections and playing styles of individual players, will always influence decisions and outcomes. 

If someone at the outset of this game had successfully argued that playing offensively is the quickest way to getting ahead in SWOE (and some did do this), I most likely would still have not done so, simply because this isn't me. Had I ignored city defences, artisans, and other development steps in favour of offensive troops and aggressive gameplay, I would most probably have levelled up much more quickly than I have, but I wouldn't have enjoyed it. 

So there you are: the buck stops with you Archon :-).

Cheers
P.

Ike said:

Another question came to mind: is it worth spending precious drachmae on emissaries as it is on artisans?

Have neither had nor ever used Emissaries nor Blacksmiths. I never use Drachmas simply to speed things up (with the above exceptions), but that's a personal preference.

Cheers
P.