I am starting this thread with hope that it can become semi permanent. The more I research Hydra the more confusing it becomes. Its hard to find 2 people who can agree on the top 3 Hydra skills.
What do you think are the top 3 Hydra skills?
Anyone can comment or ask anything about Hydra. You wont be stealing the thread.
This guide went up on Reddit this week, so I tried using it:
My best score on Hard mode was previously around 8 million. I built a new team based on the guide and got 20 million. I figure that means it works. :)
This guide went up on Reddit this week, so I tried using it:
My best score on Hard mode was previously around 8 million. I built a new team based on the guide and got 20 million. I figure that means it works. :)
I am surprised that DPS is so far down the list.
What speed, acc and resist did you use on Hard?
I feel like Hydra is setup at a level that isn't for the level that it is released to players in game, but they just put a level on it and then said alright this is good enough.
Hydra unlocks at level 45. Doom tower unlocks at lvl 40. Live Arena unlocks at 50.
Doom Tower Normal ranges of mobs from Lvl 75 to lvl 225.
Live Arena doesn't start till 5 levels later so you can't start building the Area Bonuses for it till then.
Clan Boss even starts with an "Easy". Brutal is level 150 can't recall the other levels off top of my head only found a picture of Brutal CB that showed its level.
Hydra the lowest is Normal and the starting levels of all 4 bosses are 260. 260 is just above Hard Doom Tower Floor 50. I could see Normal being set at 180 or 200 for each boss for Normal and then going up by like 40 for each higher tier.
There are people in my clan that I see looking at their clash stuff that have used 3 keys and don't even have the 1st chest in Normal and they are in the high-70's mid-80's. Imagine having a feature that unlocks for all players to participate in at level 45, but that game mode you can't touch for months or years.
There was a long time that I never touched Hydra or attempted it since when it unlocked at 45 for me and I first entered it no matter that team I put in it my entire team was killed before I even got a turn. I didn't start working on it again till Hydra Clash came out since I had read the chest rewards as Clan Point wise instead of personal. 35M for a single chest puts it out of the reaches of mostly all except for those with certain teams of champions or have already played for many many years. You can reach level 45 in about a month and a half or even faster in game.
To be able to get to 35M points you need to be able to almost 1 key Hard which is 4 bosses of level 280. Since 18M points is 35M Clash points in Hard in a single key. If you can't 1 Key it then say you do 10M you get 20M points then you have to do another 15M of Raw 1x Points damage in either Normal or Hard with no multipliers. Since only the first key gives a multiplier. None of the level 100's in the clan I am in get even close to 35M they are all in the low 20M's.
The 35M points was probably setup by play testing using only level 100 players that had NM, Brutal, and Hard unlocked. Probably the vast majority of clans (since there are a ton of clans) don't have anything but Normal and Hard unlocked.
If you take the costs of the Clash chests based only on clans with all difficulty levels unlocked 35M isn't nearly as hard. NM put up Unkillable and then get a provoke and AOE burn out you will do 4M. Well NM is 4x multiplier you just got 16M points for only surviving 2-3 turns till the Unkillable wore off but the burns got ya the points. Do the same in Brutal get another 3M now you are at 25M. Go and actually battle in Hard and get the first chest in that at 6M you're now at 37M. If you place you get the Clash chest. It is easy to setup teams for a quick burn. Like for hard I have tested it out with some teams I can just use some high speed that put up unkillable and let HP Burn do all the damage from the ticks and that gives me a couple mil in Hard. Doesn't do much in normal though since their HPs aren't that high.
I feel like Hydra is setup at a level that isn't for the level that it is released to players in game, but they just put a level on it and then said alright this is good enough.
Hydra unlocks at level 45. Doom tower unlocks at lvl 40. Live Arena unlocks at 50.
Doom Tower Normal ranges of mobs from Lvl 75 to lvl 225.
Live Arena doesn't start till 5 levels later so you can't start building the Area Bonuses for it till then.
Clan Boss even starts with an "Easy". Brutal is level 150 can't recall the other levels off top of my head only found a picture of Brutal CB that showed its level.
Hydra the lowest is Normal and the starting levels of all 4 bosses are 260. 260 is just above Hard Doom Tower Floor 50. I could see Normal being set at 180 or 200 for each boss for Normal and then going up by like 40 for each higher tier.
There are people in my clan that I see looking at their clash stuff that have used 3 keys and don't even have the 1st chest in Normal and they are in the high-70's mid-80's. Imagine having a feature that unlocks for all players to participate in at level 45, but that game mode you can't touch for months or years.
There was a long time that I never touched Hydra or attempted it since when it unlocked at 45 for me and I first entered it no matter that team I put in it my entire team was killed before I even got a turn. I didn't start working on it again till Hydra Clash came out since I had read the chest rewards as Clan Point wise instead of personal. 35M for a single chest puts it out of the reaches of mostly all except for those with certain teams of champions or have already played for many many years. You can reach level 45 in about a month and a half or even faster in game.
To be able to get to 35M points you need to be able to almost 1 key Hard which is 4 bosses of level 280. Since 18M points is 35M Clash points in Hard in a single key. If you can't 1 Key it then say you do 10M you get 20M points then you have to do another 15M of Raw 1x Points damage in either Normal or Hard with no multipliers. Since only the first key gives a multiplier. None of the level 100's in the clan I am in get even close to 35M they are all in the low 20M's.
The 35M points was probably setup by play testing using only level 100 players that had NM, Brutal, and Hard unlocked. Probably the vast majority of clans (since there are a ton of clans) don't have anything but Normal and Hard unlocked.
If you take the costs of the Clash chests based only on clans with all difficulty levels unlocked 35M isn't nearly as hard. NM put up Unkillable and then get a provoke and AOE burn out you will do 4M. Well NM is 4x multiplier you just got 16M points for only surviving 2-3 turns till the Unkillable wore off but the burns got ya the points. Do the same in Brutal get another 3M now you are at 25M. Go and actually battle in Hard and get the first chest in that at 6M you're now at 37M. If you place you get the Clash chest. It is easy to setup teams for a quick burn. Like for hard I have tested it out with some teams I can just use some high speed that put up unkillable and let HP Burn do all the damage from the ticks and that gives me a couple mil in Hard. Doesn't do much in normal though since their HPs aren't that high.
Did you by chance mean to post this in the Clash thread?
My first instinct for things I want to build Hydra teams around:
Block Buffs because it interacts with Mischief, Blight and Suffering and the first two are just run killers (Uugo, Ukko and Lydia)
Provoke because it interacts with Decay (and usually 2 sources of this at higher difficulties) (Bivald, Husk, Provoke set)
AoE Decrease speed/increase speed = more turns relative to the bosses (Lydia, Kimi, Cybele and others)
These three help control the heads and make runs a lot harder to fail and generally give us the most upside.
Did you by chance mean to post this in the Clash thread?
Nah I meant for it to be here since the OP posted "Anyone can comment or ask anything about Hydra" both clash and the difficulty of the feature with the level it is released for players vs what they can get in the game for it seems to be in line with the topic of anything about hydra.
The section about "There are people in my clan that I see looking at their clash stuff that have used 3 keys and don't even have the 1st chest in Normal and they are in the high-70's mid-80's." isn't about Clash but me looking at the points of clan mates through clash. The first chest I am talking about is the 1.67M damage they need to do on Normal to get that first chest not the 35M chest. They are in high-70's to Mid-80s and can't even get 1.7M damage done from 3 keys.
My first instinct for things I want to build Hydra teams around:
Block Buffs because it interacts with Mischief, Blight and Suffering and the first two are just run killers (Uugo, Ukko and Lydia)
Provoke because it interacts with Decay (and usually 2 sources of this at higher difficulties) (Bivald, Husk, Provoke set)
AoE Decrease speed/increase speed = more turns relative to the bosses (Lydia, Kimi, Cybele and others)
These three help control the heads and make runs a lot harder to fail and generally give us the most upside.
You also need someone who can heal/revive, also a mischief tank, also gotta be able to squeeze in a damage dealer somewhere or you'll just get ate because you aren't killing and freeing anyone lol.
As well as a Hex or you are never hitting Mischief outside of AoEs and then if he eats someone and then redirects the attacks for all the turns well you just lost someone.
Need an HP burner for Poison Cloud as well.
Need someone who can do Perfect Veil to everyone or remove the fears.
Of the champions you listed Husk is the only one of those I have. Lydia is listed for so many teams, but to newer ish players she is no where in the area of being obtainable. She can't be summoned. She can only be obtained from Faction Wars players which takes a long time to get every single stage to 3*. You can probably already do most of hydra before getting to that point do to the amount of stats, gear, champions, etc required to max out your crypt for all 945 stars. Used to be a lot less for those that started earlier in the game.
There are so many different roles you have to fill due to there are 6 bosses that you essentially have to make teams to prepare to fight all 6. You only get to use 6 champions. So essentially you need either champions that each one is a counter to a single hydra or you need ones that can counter multiple hydras at the same time. Issue is a lot of kits aren't setup outside of a single focus.
Did you by chance mean to post this in the Clash thread?
Hydra seems to be as much about gear as it is about the champs. I have a good assortment of champs but getting 18 of them into the right gear with the right stats is difficult.
To OP - the two most important stats *by far* are SPD and ACC. So much so, that you should probably just ignore all other stats to focus on those two, and just get whatever you can from the rest of the gear. My NM team has everyone above 260 speed, I think.
Do these ACC stats look correct?
I mean yeah, that's just the basic ACC vs RES formula. You want between ACC between -20 and +10 of their RES in order to land debuffs, and you want RES to be at least +50, ideally +100 over their ACC to consistently resist debuffs.
But that chart is only part of the equation. Most Hydra teams should include someone with ACC down and ideally also someone with ACC up, so that you don't need to build teams around such high ACC/RES numbers.
I mean yeah, that's just the basic ACC vs RES formula. You want between ACC between -20 and +10 of their RES in order to land debuffs, and you want RES to be at least +50, ideally +100 over their ACC to consistently resist debuffs.
But that chart is only part of the equation. Most Hydra teams should include someone with ACC down and ideally also someone with ACC up, so that you don't need to build teams around such high ACC/RES numbers.
Should aura be Speed or ACC? I have been using Mithrala and dup Drex to get a high ACC aura.
You can do the math easily enough. On average most champs have ~100 base speed, so for simplicity, assume that you just take the speed aura percentage and use that amount as the speed contribution. Using glyphs as the comparison point, a 5-star ACC glyph gives 8-11 = 9.5 ACC on average, a 5-star SPD glyph gives 4-5 = 4.5 SPD on average, so, again for simplicity, let's just say 1 SPD = 2 ACC in terms of weighting.
Mithrala gives an 80 ACC aura, so on the surface, that would translate into a 40% SPD aura, which is obviously not happening - so you'd assume the ACC aura is better. But that assumption is built on the basis that *all* of the ACC contribution is actually useful, which is rarely the case. Champs are generally built without necessarily assuming they have an ACC aura, so they usually have enough ACC on their own, and the ACC aura is just icing.
Given that, SPD is usually the right choice, but in specific situations, especially if you're able to build your team around the aura, ACC can be better. But you have to build your champs for the team specifically around the fact that you have the +80 ACC.
You can do the math easily enough. On average most champs have ~100 base speed, so for simplicity, assume that you just take the speed aura percentage and use that amount as the speed contribution. Using glyphs as the comparison point, a 5-star ACC glyph gives 8-11 = 9.5 ACC on average, a 5-star SPD glyph gives 4-5 = 4.5 SPD on average, so, again for simplicity, let's just say 1 SPD = 2 ACC in terms of weighting.
Mithrala gives an 80 ACC aura, so on the surface, that would translate into a 40% SPD aura, which is obviously not happening - so you'd assume the ACC aura is better. But that assumption is built on the basis that *all* of the ACC contribution is actually useful, which is rarely the case. Champs are generally built without necessarily assuming they have an ACC aura, so they usually have enough ACC on their own, and the ACC aura is just icing.
Given that, SPD is usually the right choice, but in specific situations, especially if you're able to build your team around the aura, ACC can be better. But you have to build your champs for the team specifically around the fact that you have the +80 ACC.
I have my 70 ACC GH bonus for all affinities. It is easy for me to get over on ACC.
You gave me some good ideas. Time to throw some teams together and experiment.
I am surprised that DPS is so far down the list.
What speed, acc and resist did you use on Hard?
I don't think the list is in terms of importance, simply a list of best things to focus on overall. Whether something is postion 2. or 12, is irrelevant, just aim to get as much covered in the list.
As for my stats - my teams aren't optimized for Hydra and only a couple in my entire box are over 200 SPD. I do aim give my debuffers around 300-350 accuracy by default, though, so that they can be useful anywhere.
You also need someone who can heal/revive, also a mischief tank, also gotta be able to squeeze in a damage dealer somewhere or you'll just get ate because you aren't killing and freeing anyone lol.
As well as a Hex or you are never hitting Mischief outside of AoEs and then if he eats someone and then redirects the attacks for all the turns well you just lost someone.
Need an HP burner for Poison Cloud as well.
Need someone who can do Perfect Veil to everyone or remove the fears.
Of the champions you listed Husk is the only one of those I have. Lydia is listed for so many teams, but to newer ish players she is no where in the area of being obtainable. She can't be summoned. She can only be obtained from Faction Wars players which takes a long time to get every single stage to 3*. You can probably already do most of hydra before getting to that point do to the amount of stats, gear, champions, etc required to max out your crypt for all 945 stars. Used to be a lot less for those that started earlier in the game.
There are so many different roles you have to fill due to there are 6 bosses that you essentially have to make teams to prepare to fight all 6. You only get to use 6 champions. So essentially you need either champions that each one is a counter to a single hydra or you need ones that can counter multiple hydras at the same time. Issue is a lot of kits aren't setup outside of a single focus.
I don't run a Mischief tank ever, nor hexers.
My NM team everyone is well above 350 resistance, so that's a srategy that you can use to just ignore Mischief, especially when paired with champs that Dec Acc like Kimi, Ukko and Geo. On lower difficulties it's easier to run an Uugo fast enough to keep block buffs up all the time, so I do that.
A lot of champs aren't great at Hydra due to being singularly focused, sure. Hopefully farming sets like Provoke and Cursed can reduce the pressure on a roster though, so you perhaps don't feel you need a dedicated hexer or backup provoke champ.
However lots of the recent fusions and login champs have absolutely been Hydra all stars. I do hope people are using Artak and Wukong there for example, or the new Strategos guy, even the Panda is a good progression champ for Hydra. Not to mention older fusions like Ukko, Dreng, Bivald, Cybele, etc...
Sure, many brand new players may only have Artak Wukong and Panda, but with the quality of Fusions for Hydra over the past year+, I would think the best way to progress in Hydra would be to work an account into the point it can do fusions through dungeon and CB progressions.
I definitely don't mind hydra opening early, as it shows people the kind of champs they'll need to build and fuse, as well as gear reqs, for Hydra. Easier to see how good Lydia would be for your account after Normal Hydra dunks you. Hahaha
I don't run a Mischief tank ever, nor hexers.
My NM team everyone is well above 350 resistance, so that's a srategy that you can use to just ignore Mischief, especially when paired with champs that Dec Acc like Kimi, Ukko and Geo. On lower difficulties it's easier to run an Uugo fast enough to keep block buffs up all the time, so I do that.
A lot of champs aren't great at Hydra due to being singularly focused, sure. Hopefully farming sets like Provoke and Cursed can reduce the pressure on a roster though, so you perhaps don't feel you need a dedicated hexer or backup provoke champ.
However lots of the recent fusions and login champs have absolutely been Hydra all stars. I do hope people are using Artak and Wukong there for example, or the new Strategos guy, even the Panda is a good progression champ for Hydra. Not to mention older fusions like Ukko, Dreng, Bivald, Cybele, etc...
Sure, many brand new players may only have Artak Wukong and Panda, but with the quality of Fusions for Hydra over the past year+, I would think the best way to progress in Hydra would be to work an account into the point it can do fusions through dungeon and CB progressions.
I definitely don't mind hydra opening early, as it shows people the kind of champs they'll need to build and fuse, as well as gear reqs, for Hydra. Easier to see how good Lydia would be for your account after Normal Hydra dunks you. Hahaha
Mischief is a run ended for me above turn 100 if I don't have a hexer. RNG has him eat someone. You then have 2 turns to break it because above turn 100 they swallow after 2 of their turns. Your single target nukers all get redirected on the first turn, he then takes someone's turn meter and goes again boom swallowed. No real chance to free them.
Mischief is a run ended for me above turn 100 if I don't have a hexer. RNG has him eat someone. You then have 2 turns to break it because above turn 100 they swallow after 2 of their turns. Your single target nukers all get redirected on the first turn, he then takes someone's turn meter and goes again boom swallowed. No real chance to free them.
Well he can't steal TM if your team is all high resist, and Geo can target him anyways. Add to that only AoE champs and I'm usually chillin.
I can get why he'd be frustrating. He used to be terribly so for me until I got my team all resistance charged!
Well he can't steal TM if your team is all high resist, and Geo can target him anyways. Add to that only AoE champs and I'm usually chillin.
I can get why he'd be frustrating. He used to be terribly so for me until I got my team all resistance charged!
Are you upgrading hydra or FK with live arena medals?
Well he can't steal TM if your team is all high resist, and Geo can target him anyways. Add to that only AoE champs and I'm usually chillin.
I can get why he'd be frustrating. He used to be terribly so for me until I got my team all resistance charged!
Yep. My nightmare team doesn't run acc down, and I still generally resist most mischief stuff. And geomancer makes short work of mischief, as long as it isn't mischief + decay + suffering + torment. Even then I tend to be okay just because everyone hits hard. Even maulie is smacking for 100k+.
