I see where you are coming from, however, I disagree.  It is a good way of challenging yourself.  One can pick a goal, mark it, and have it listed at the top of their hanger right before heading into a match to remind them of that goal.  This then pushes them to achieve that goal and get better in one particular skill, weapon, or mech.

Out of curiosity, why is it that you wish for them to drop these various things?

Should be obvious gambling like mechanics are bad in a children's game. But it's also part of the fomo. It's the game demanding play time as opposed to earning it. Why can't they design other ways to encourage people to work on certain skills? And obviously pay to win is bad.

Well, first I would ask this question:  How many players are there that are under the age of 18 vs. how many are over it?

Next, I would point out that it is basic Pavlovian psychology.  Positive and Negative reinforcement.  If you do well, you are rewarded with Credits, A-Coins, and/or Blueprints.  If you do bad, you are punished with a loss of points that could set your Division back.  The simple fact of the matter is;  it works.

As for the pay to win, again the question; how else are they going to provide even half of the amenities that this game, or the other games offer if there is no money changing hands?

As I said, I do undersatnd your point, and in many ways I do agree with it, but I have to be the Devil's Advocate here and ask these questions.

"As for the pay to win, again the question; how else are they going to provide even half of the amenities that this game, or the other games offer if there is no money changing hands?"

What do you mean? Do you mean to imply there won't be spending if people can't buy their way to victory? Because that would be bogus.

It doesn't matter how many people there are playing mech arena who are under 18 or not its rating implies it's acceptable for minors to play it yet it has gambling mechanics.

I am sorry, but one cannotr buy their way to victory.  One can get the best mechs and weapons and max them out, mod it all the way, max out the pilots and implants, and still lose.  There is a certain level of skill involved, and it can be natural or built up over time by experience.  Spending can only increase one's chance at victory, not ensure it.

As for the gambling mechanics, I am not reading any alternate ideas.  If you have them, share them.  Do not be a malcontent.  Offer solutions, suggestions, alternate ideas.  The Mods read these, I am sure they would love some new and novel ideas.  Those suggestions just might make it into the game.

Just because you can pay and still lose doesn't mean it's not pay to win. You think it's gotta have a button you can pay to press that instantly makes you win the match for it to be pay to win? And tell me what skill is there involved in pressing a button to make your weapons fire and then pressing another button to turn yourself invulnerable while they fire so you can shoot at your enemies while they can't shoot back? What skill?

And devs don't need "new and novel ideas" to replace the gambling mechanics. What value are they adding to the game?  I know some people see an opportunity to get a cheap mech, but I just see a fomo mechanic.

If plarium needs all this stuff to get people spending that means they can't rely on the quality of the gam alone. Why might that be?

I see nothing wrong with the dailies and playoff events. Some playoff events are totally accessible to f2p players, if you are patient enough to prepare for them. I've come top 3 in a couple of them.

Regarding gambling (which I assume refers to ECRs), without real money/risk being involved, it's just the same as any other game of chance. At least per my limited understanding.. I'm not legally savvy. So I assume you are specifically against the possibility that minors might be spending real money on these games of chance. 

I totally get that concern, but am on the fence about its merits. You don't have to spend real money on the ECRs, and as long as you don't, it's probably not gambling. Sure it might tempt somebody to spend real money but spending money isn't a requirement. Plus, apart from the new infinite ECRs, spending enough money actually guarantees the final prize. Such a guarantee might also argue against the ECRs being categorised as gambling.

My point is that it's possible that MA's games of chance don't automatically fall under gambling (morally or legally) as you are suggesting they do. What are your reasons for thinking they do?

Well let's start with the fact that there being limited spending not being true for every crate rush. Let's not forget there has been infinite crates that made their way into the game within the last couple years. Last time I checked, these types of crate rushes still happen.

It's also not true for every crate rush that you don't have to spend money. They usually give 1 token for brand new releases and then you have to pay for subsequent ones. And for those where you don't have to spend money to spin you always have the option to do so.

Variable rate reward systems in video games (IE: lootboxes, "event crates" in mech arene) are proven to create gambling addicts from children. Maybe it's different for crates with only limited prizes, but there would have to be more research. And I don't want to be playing the game that's doing the thing that's being researched if it's bad for kids. I wouldn't want kids to play that game. Especially when it's gambling adjacent, and lootboxes were already gambling adjacent and proven to create problem gamblers.

And for dailies I don't like the FOMO aspect and playoffs are an affront to leaderboards IMO. Leaderboards used to just be about bragging rights and then being able to use your skills to get to the top and perhaps win a prize is okay but being able to buy the top spot on a leaderboard is something I can't agree with. Maybe they're semi accessible to f2p sorta if you magically have the right planning whoopdie doo someone else is also buying the top spot.

Yup I did mention the infinite ECRs that don't guarantee results, and you're also right that there are some ECRs that are only based on money. I concede those points. 

And I will reiterate that I'm not saying these activities can't be characterized as gambling.. just that it might not be so black and white.

>> "if you magically have the right planning whoopdie doo" 

Magic and right planning are a contradiction in terms, and (apart from the gambling point) it's possible you are dissing something you haven't understood or tried. Planning isn't necessarily complicated.. for example, "save crates, win playoff event". Simple. Heck in this example, dare I say it, it even promotes money management and the value of saving :-).

The game is full of people abusing the programmed to be abused system. Well done to the games coders for making this game a complete mess. Why program the game to be abused in so many ways? Every dang match has at the very least 1 person abusing matchmaking, Every dang match! Why would you coders program the game to be abused so much? It's almost like yous get off on creating cheaters and abusers... is the games abusiveness a reflection of the people coding it? Sure seems that way over the past 3 years. Change the games name to Mech Abusers!

Yeah you just need your plan to line up well with what everyone else is doing

The people or accounts defending you are most likely the DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES. I can't prove it but we all know that if it's not WHALES or DEVELOPERS then noone should be defending GAMBLING and other PREDATORY tactics used rampantly throughout a game that is MARKETED to CHILDREN as well. Even though their target audience is actually WHALES and GAMBLING ADDICTS who are almost always spending a lot in the game every month, children also play the game and are as likely to also fall into the predatory tactics of FOMO.

 You can't be telling me on the day 6 out of 7 to get the "free" Killshot there was one objective left which said I should make an in-game purchase to get Killshot early enough. Obviously I naturally spotted the TRAP and logged of the game and returned the next day to get it but a child might not only have the same MENTAL FORTITUDE and FALL VICTIM to FOMO. They make a PURCHASE, get what they want and see another opportunity to do the same and the CYCLE continues, effectively being ADDICTED to GAMBLING. 

But these TRAPS are set out to catch WHALES not necessarily children with lunch money or allowances or even parents' credit card but they are obviously welcomed to be PREYED upon by the games BLATANT PREDATORY mechanics. Dragonator I totally agree. I also feel like my comment might get deleted but I'm probably not the first nor last to criticize this "gambling first" game. Lastly I noticed all this on the first or third time ever opening the game after being recommended to it by a friend...that should say a lot.

Yeah this is pretty much what I'm talking about. But I don't think the people defending it are secretly developers or whales. I love to use that line a lot but when it comes to this instance I think we're just dealing with brainwashed masses. Undercover whales and staff love to talk down and tell you to shut up and stop complaining and be grateful you're not being screwed worse.

How about you say the same about like 80% of modern live service games?

Yeah, I do agree the game would be better without gambling, would be better if it wasn't p2w. But we can't have a perfect world. And frankly Mech Arena isn't actually all that bad, at least by comparison anyway. It's not the best sure, but it's not the worst either. 

You're right. But I play(ed) mech arena. And it wasn't always like this. I've also played clash of clans which in all the time I played it they never had gambling. And they didn't have pay to win either. You simply played to progress faster. You could have a clan war and have clans mismatch with each other but we'd see mostly a difference in progress of like one town hall level. Then look at mech arena's matchmaking where we get 4kSP vs 12k SP. That's like a town hall 3 in clash of clans being matched against a town hall 10. Thankfully that doesn't happen. If it did it would be a massive scandal warranting an urgent fix. But it's just another day on mech arena. The devs treat it like it's nothing too. "We're constantly working on the matchmaking and making incremental improvements [blah blah blah...]"

You say you've played Mech Arena I while - I've played since before global launch - and yeah it didn't always have ECRs and some of the other stuff it currently has - but those things were introduced pretty quickly, and things have changed for the better (for example the XP-based matchmaking).

And Mech Arena again isn't really that p2w, I don't know what you think you got by bringing up that X other game isn't - from what I've heard, apparently CoC is quite a p2w game.

And you also act like number 1 the matchmaking does it the majority of the time and that it only happens to you - which is not true, btw, number 2 that SP is everything when it comes to a given matchup - which again it isn't, skill is a thing. I fairly often fight people a good 8k or even 12k SP stronger than me - I don't always win, obviously, it shouldn't be like that, but my win rate is around 80% iirc. Additionally, the power rating of an item isn't always very accurate. Carbine and Burrow Beam have the same power rating iirc, but obviously one is much better than the other - and I imagine you probably wouldn't care if you encountered an enemy mech using the former as opposed to the latter.

And you also act like matchmaking is just some easy thing that you snap your fingers to solve.

If the devs make the matchmaking 'farier', people end up abusing it more (see the influx of tankers that happened after many MM fairness changes).

It's a difficult balance and I see why progress is slow. When they try to make larger, faster changes people are often not happy - and the matchmaking will never satisfy everyone, because at the end of the day, people have to lose if it's functioning correctly.

Why did I bring up the other game? Because it's relevant to the conversation. And you know how people say that war robots is worse to excuse mech arena. Here I'm comparing it to a game that's in my in my opinion much better. I have played clash of clans. I know what it's like. You may have heard it's pay to win and sure there's an argument to be made it is. But to give some perspective, clash of clans doesn't have $100 new troops every month. You can absolutely spend a lot of money in it. And hell you probably will be if you want to ever reach max without no-lifing it. But you don't get ridiculous mismatches. And the no lifing for max applies to mech arena too.

BTW what is your current SP? Because I imagine it's not 4k if you're beating people with 8k higher hangar power than you. Let's talk percentages here. Are you going against people who have 3 times your strength? Guess what? Regardless clash of clans does not have that kind of variation in the matchmaking. They obviously have a vastly superior matchmaking system.

And you don't gotta tell me SP isn't everything. I've been saying that metric is near meaningless for actual weapon strength. But many items in the same energy category have similar SP ratings. And most things within the same energy category can be perfectly competitive weapons against each other. Except for in edge cases like sub-legendary grade or like you said, carbines. But nobody in their right mind is going to be using carbines as well most won't use the vast majority of sub-legendary mechs after a certain point. Nor are people frequently using lower than the highest grade mechs they have access to. So SP is still a pretty strong visual indicator in the gap in performance you can expect from different players' hangars.

Also "If the devs make the matchmaking 'farier', people end up abusing it more (see the influx of tankers that happened after many MM fairness changes)." Which matchmaking fairness changes? When? XP to SP sure but over time it felt like plarium had mitigated the extreme mismatches. Now we're back to people having them? And what so we say "okay this sucks but don't ask plarium to make it fairer because that makes it more 'exploitable'"? How about that fact that a more exploitable matchmaking system than the current one is inherently less fair?

And when have people not been happy about faster changes? When have they ever made drastic changes to the matchmaking besides when the it went from XP to SP based matchmaking, after gear hub came to mech arena, and the new tournaments? And I mean the actual matchmaking. XP to SP was celebrated. Gear hub is looked down upon because they updated the stats of everything without updating power ratings which made them even less meaningful than they were before, and then complicated everything with grade influenced matchmaking, which didn't work because people do not play all the same grade mechs and weapons all in the same hangar all the time. Tournament matchmaking I don't think has ever really gotten more "fair" instead it became based on tournament division, which is neutral. And it's been debated but I think it just needed a few kinks worked out. That's the only times matchmaking has really drastically changed as far as I can remember. Matchmaking for regular gamemodes still have plenty of kinks to work out. But plarium seemingly doesn't want to work on any of them. And here it's almost sounding like you're saying they shouldn't.

It's a difficult balance I'm sure that's what plarium would love us to believe it's a good excuse to not try as hard as they could be or not try at all. People don't necessarily have to lose if matchmaking functions correctly. Draws exist in the game for a reason. But how often do you draw your matches? Not often I imagine. They virtually always have a winner and a loser. Almost as if that's by design. That's not a sign of a properly working matchmaking system if you ask me. And haven't you ever wondered what such "incremental improvements" they've made? Have you ever asked what they're actually doing to improve the matchmaking? What any of these so called "incremental changes" are? Spoiler alert: THEY DON'T ANSWER!