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Game Balance Spiral of Doom

Game Balance Spiral of Doom

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Apr 26, 2020, 13:1104/26/20
09/19/14
19

Game Balance Spiral of Doom

RECOMMENDATION:

The minimum points required to collect brawl rewards should be significantly increased and that minimum should increase depending on what stage your league achieves.

I appreciate the knee jerk reaction to this will be unpopular from many self interested leagues and players but read on to why it's absolutely required to safe guard Stormfall as a meaningful strategy game.


THE PROBLEM:

The brawl has become more important than every other element of the game added together. 

Brawl rewards now far outweigh actual game participation. Final stage brawl rewards are between 3 to 5 times higher than a highly active player would grow by from interacting with ALL the other elements of the game.

It is now become far more important to be an almost inactive player in a high performing brawl league than an incredibly active player, skillful and knowledgeable player in a low achieving brawl league.

A highly active player keeping troop production running 24/7 and participating in a significant proportion of events could expect to grow by approx 6m-10m troop power a month. 

That same player would grow by 30m from just top tier brawl rewards per month. To get those brawl rewards they would need to score just 2k brawl points, which could be achieved with just 2 mins of game time per week.

Big Brawl performance is nothing to do with activity, skill, knowledge or experience, it is just down to money spent. 

It is possible to score near infinite points speed boosting troops or reviving troops. The only limit is how much you want to spend. Mass spam of BGs the next highest point scorer is only sustainable if you are willing to buy back losses. Equipment selling, lost arts etc are only achievable in a significant way by paying for speed boosts. One of the few points mechanism actually driven by real activity is raiding and that has been given a tiny points reward. 

Many of the leagues achieving 10m+ in the brawl are almost entirely being driven by a tiny minority of high spending players. There are some reasonably dead leagues, that have never achieved anything in the game scoring 10m+ on my server.

The benefit of coining has now become many many times higher than the troops / boosts and items bought on the original coined account.The advantage bought from spending is therefore now completely out of control. 

Stormfall was always incredibly aggressively pay to win. Now mega coning on just several accounts can literally buy billions of troop power per month. Each brawl can be worth 1bn troop power per week.

As an example, It would be possible for a single mega coiner to easily drive 10m points on just their main account (e.g. queue up and speed boost SH troop production). The other 159 members of their league could be inactive alts scoring just 2k. Just that one account's coining would be buying 3.5bn of troop power per month in the league (and there is nothing stopping them coining to complete the brawl for much more rewards than just 3.5bn).


THE IMPACT:

As a result the game is fast becoming meaningless as a competitive strategy war game. In a few months it will become apparent to everyone it has simply become who is funding the most brawl rewards.

There has always been a huge advantage of from coining. Stormfall has never been balanced. But the brawl structure has increased the impact exponentially to beyond any sense or reasonableness, to a point that threatens the continued existence of the game. It is just completely broken now.

Leagues that throughout the game have been poorly organised, ineffectual and basically inconsequential are now becoming incredibly powerful off the back of just a couple of people's spending.

The usual list of major mega coined leagues are of course also exponentially leaving the rest of the game in the dust. And some of the people in those leagues are incredibly weak players now having "hero" accounts built for them with no investment of time and effort and no required skill or experience.

Other "have not" leagues are facing extinction as their key major player are effectively forced to move to the handful of coining supporting leagues. As those leagues die off we will lose server activity and the remaining actives will be become concentrated in just a tiny handful of leagues. This will accelerate the death of the servers significantly.

From a Plarium perspective, a significant number of players in major leagues will now have little to no incentive to ever spend any money again.

The benefit of what they spend will be inconsequential compared to the free troops several mega coiners are effectively buying them each week. Coupled with free bonds from floor 100 of the Tower and orbs from Weor there is no need to ever spend money again in certain leagues.


THE SOLUTION:

There should be a significant increase in the minimum points required to collect brawl rewards.

That miminim should be proportional to the Stage / points your league achieves in the brawl.

Below is a table with my suggested minimum points structure.



The average column shows the points scored if everyone evenly scored points. I have suggested the minimums at 65% of this value and you can see how this impacts the ability of a tiny of minority of people to subsidise their leagues in the final two columns.

With minimums of this level, it is still possible for a small number of players to drive a significant part of the leagues points. This means Plarium can still make lots of money from the mega coiners funding their leagues. And we aren't completely penalising leagues that have a few people heavily scoring points.

But we do hit reasonable compromise and balance where players need to contribute to the rewards they are being given. If they don't contribute they don't get the rewards.

This completely stops billions of troops being earned by accounts which are hardly contributing or participating. It stops a couple of people subsidising an entire league.

I love that this could cause leagues that are driving their entire brawl reward from a couple of mega coining accounts, to have to stop and think. Yes pushing to higher tiers in theory would earn more rewards. But if the underlying general activity is low, less and less of that reward would be collectible.

MY REQUEST TO YOU:

When you respond to this thread, don't do it just based on your myopic self-interest. Most of the people who post are in major leagues. This broken structure benefits those leagues. If everyone posts just out of pure self-interest this thread won't get much support.

So what I ask you is to take a step back. Think about what this is going to do to the wider game here. Consider whether I am right in assessing the level of imbalance has reached such epic proportions we might be on the cusp of driving a significant proportion of people away. Think about whether this situation is in any way fair or reasonable and whether it drives a meaningful strategy game.

After you have taken that step back, then post and try and post in the most balanced and unbiased way you can.

Btw it's a long post but it's a complex issue, so well done for reaching the end. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say :)





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580
Comments
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Comments
Apr 26, 2020, 13:1304/26/20
Apr 26, 2020, 15:44(edited)
09/19/14
19

BACK UP INFO: VALUE OF BRAWL REWARDS:


Table showing the resource value and troop value of brawl rewards.




Takeaways:

- A normal player, in a league completing the brawl would earn just under 7m troop power per week, 30m per month

- This would be double the reward of the same player in a league reaching tier 10, scoring 5m points in the brawl

- 30m growth per month would be  between 3-5 times more growth than the normal player would get all other game activity added together (depending on exactly number of tournaments completed and type of troops built).

- It is therefore not possible for a player to make up the advantage someone in a high scoring league gets, no matter how hard or long they play, or how better, knowledgeable or experienced they are in the game. 

- The brawl rewards are an unconquerable advantage, gained from as little as 2 mins per week of logging in to get 2k points.

Notes (for those interested):

- The resource value of undead dragons, elementalists and crowned knights is estimated (as proportion to their base power vs griffens base power). So Stage 11, 13, 14 resource values are estimates

- The troop power value is estimated under various different "levels" of accounts. Each "level" of account has specific assumptions about all bonuses, champs etc etc. Coiner effectively represent close to max bonuses (with all active bonuses turned on e.g. dragon arts, enhancer, castle skin etc)

- The troop power for elementalists and crowned knights will be a little out as the spreadsheet uses the same bonus assumptions for all troops and is therefore adding in a couple of bonuses those troops don't get (but the error is very small and would be a pain to address)


Apr 26, 2020, 21:5804/26/20
08/09/15
580

ur way of using numbers and statistics,i cant and wont agree, but, 


this is a great idea to increase minimal requirement for claiming rewards...i agree


if u also added minimum point for every rank in every tier it would also be nice
MicModerator
Apr 27, 2020, 07:0004/27/20
02/22/19
1489

Hello Lord Kingsguard , i don't agree with you...

yes ,is right when you say is enough 2 min for make 2 k points and claim the rewards , but if all the members do like that i have doubts about that league will earn many rewards...but is ok for a small castle which still  have to grow up.

the coiners had always some advantages because they coin,and that is from the begin of the game,not just in brawl.

In my opinion is a good tournament the brawl, and will make the players to decide to chose strong leagues for earn good rewards .

just saying ...


Apr 27, 2020, 12:3404/27/20
02/22/16
1846

Sounds like the Never ending complaint of those that refuse to Advance in the Game that wants All the benefits of a Huge League That has worked years to get to their levels To be given to small start up leagues . That's not Going to Happen ! 



Apr 27, 2020, 20:4304/27/20
04/23/20
53

Nice post. 

In terms of the brawl, I do agree that minimum points should probably have been applied in a better way (if you remember, initially only 1 brawl point was required.) 

I'd say your suggested minimum points are way too aggressive. One of the things you've failed to consider is the Plarium pricing model. Pretty much everything is priced against USD. 

So, if you're from a country that has a crappy USD exchange rate? Do you buy a 30 day Hunt so you can compete to get to minimum brawl points, or do you buy food? Especially now.

Anyway, the horse has long since bolted in this game, it's got a life of about 6-7 months max.

Thanks for a good read. 

Apr 28, 2020, 03:3804/28/20
Apr 28, 2020, 03:39(edited)
07/10/14
345

Wesley Pringle said:


Sounds like the Never ending complaint of those that refuse to Advance in the Game that wants All the benefits of a Huge League That has worked years to get to their levels To be given to small start up leagues . That's not Going to Happen ! 

Quite clearly the Op didn't say anything of the kind. You could have tried to put words in his mouth that had the opposite meaning to what he actually said if you tried,

In no way is he asking for small leagues to get a free leg up.

In a nutshell he is asking that no one gets free leg ups, whether in small or large leagues.

It's hard to find any logical flaw in what he posted tbh. 

He even pointed out why this is revenue destroying for Plarium. It allows spending on a couple of accounts to remove the need for an entire league to ever spend money on the game again. If they put int he mins he is suggesting they would get money from all the people who are lazy and needed to buy their min activity points rather than earn them through time and effort. That would be a lot of people I suspect.

I think Plarium made the brawl rewards overpowered because they were looking at ways of trying to retain and get people back in the game (big load of free troops). I don't think they realised they had unwittingly they had made a system that allowed a couple of people to replace the spending of an entire league.

BiohazarDModerator
Apr 28, 2020, 06:0904/28/20
Apr 28, 2020, 06:10(edited)
10/04/13
3817
Reverse Midas said:

Nice post. 

In terms of the brawl, I do agree that minimum points should probably have been applied in a better way (if you remember, initially only 1 brawl point was required.) 

I'd say your suggested minimum points are way too aggressive. One of the things you've failed to consider is the Plarium pricing model. Pretty much everything is priced against USD. 

So, if you're from a country that has a crappy USD exchange rate? Do you buy a 30 day Hunt so you can compete to get to minimum brawl points, or do you buy food? Especially now.

Anyway, the horse has long since bolted in this game, it's got a life of about 6-7 months max.

Thanks for a good read. 

They might be a bit high, but I mean you can get around 30k points just from building troops even without using boosts and at least another 20k from selling champion gear, hitting the occasional bg, raiding for resources, etc.  It wouldn't be difficult for active players to meet the requirements even without spending, but it would be tough for the people trying to do it on dozens of alt accounts every week.  I doubt it will happen though, if somebody wants to spend a bunch of money scoring points so their friends can get free stuff Plarium isn't going to stop them.  
Apr 28, 2020, 11:4904/28/20
08/09/15
580
BiohazarD said:

Reverse Midas said:


They might be a bit high, but I mean you can get around 30k points just from building troops even without using boosts and at least another 20k from selling champion gear, hitting the occasional bg, raiding for resources, etc.  It wouldn't be difficult for active players to meet the requirements even without spending, but it would be tough for the people trying to do it on dozens of alt accounts every week.  I doubt it will happen though, if somebody wants to spend a bunch of money scoring points so their friends can get free stuff Plarium isn't going to stop them.  
very clear explanation and a nice point
May 8, 2020, 12:5705/08/20
09/19/14
19

Thanks for all the interest and feedback.

With regards the last few posts about what is a realistic level of points for people to score and therefore where to set the minimums, I very much followed the logic Bio set out.

It's easy to score 30k just from making troops. Up to about 50k needs you to lighlly play your account. Beyond that you need to be more active. Getting over 50k means starting to do things like running a hunt.

So an 80k min for the top tier is by no means that difficult to reach. If you are supposed to be a member of one of the best leagues and claiming 30/40m in tree troops per month then should be able to score 80k points. If you can't your really not that active.

To this point:


In my opinion is a good tournament the brawl, and will make the players to decide to chose strong leagues for earn good rewards 

That is the whole drive of my post. Because they aren't being pushed to join "strong" leagues. They are being pushed to join leagues that are being subsidised by a small group of mega coiners. League's brawl points are in no way a good indicator of how strong, well organised or active a league is. Often it just tells you whether it has couple of mega coiners.

There is at least one league in my server that is virtually inactive but there is one person in it buying the entire 10m of brawl points it scores. In no way could it be described as a strong league.

May 8, 2020, 13:5105/08/20
01/10/17
107

Kings Guard said:


Thanks for all the interest and feedback.

With regards the last few posts about what is a realistic level of points for people to score and therefore where to set the minimums, I very much followed the logic Bio set out.

It's easy to score 30k just from making troops. Up to about 50k needs you to lighlly play your account. Beyond that you need to be more active. Getting over 50k means starting to do things like running a hunt.

So an 80k min for the top tier is by no means that difficult to reach. If you are supposed to be a member of one of the best leagues and claiming 30/40m in tree troops per month then should be able to score 80k points. If you can't your really not that active.

To this point:


In my opinion is a good tournament the brawl, and will make the players to decide to chose strong leagues for earn good rewards 

That is the whole drive of my post. Because they aren't being pushed to join "strong" leagues. They are being pushed to join leagues that are being subsidised by a small group of mega coiners. League's brawl points are in no way a good indicator of how strong, well organised or active a league is. Often it just tells you whether it has couple of mega coiners.

There is at least one league in my server that is virtually inactive but there is one person in it buying the entire 10m of brawl points it scores. In no way could it be described as a strong league.

Wow How sad someone has something I don't !!!

I guess instead of offering Cheese and Crackers I'll just say if you can't beat them Join them ! 

Instead of spinning your wheels !


May 8, 2020, 23:3105/08/20
08/09/15
580

Reverse Midas said:


Nice post. 

In terms of the brawl, I do agree that minimum points should probably have been applied in a better way (if you remember, initially only 1 brawl point was required.) 

I'd say your suggested minimum points are way too aggressive. One of the things you've failed to consider is the Plarium pricing model. Pretty much everything is priced against USD. 

So, if you're from a country that has a crappy USD exchange rate? Do you buy a 30 day Hunt so you can compete to get to minimum brawl points, or do you buy food? Especially now.

Anyway, the horse has long since bolted in this game, it's got a life of about 6-7 months max.

Thanks for a good read. 

couldnt see ur post till now,what had u done         

and yes i pay like 15 times the USD price :s 

also about game going to end like 6,7 months,... people said the same thing after beacons,people said theyll leave the game.people said many things and still,here we are 

game isnt going to end in 7 months,actually i believe it could even prosper if they could just advertise a little better 

May 9, 2020, 19:2605/09/20
04/23/20
53
fURY said:

Reverse Midas said:


Nice post. 

In terms of the brawl, I do agree that minimum points should probably have been applied in a better way (if you remember, initially only 1 brawl point was required.) 

I'd say your suggested minimum points are way too aggressive. One of the things you've failed to consider is the Plarium pricing model. Pretty much everything is priced against USD. 

So, if you're from a country that has a crappy USD exchange rate? Do you buy a 30 day Hunt so you can compete to get to minimum brawl points, or do you buy food? Especially now.

Anyway, the horse has long since bolted in this game, it's got a life of about 6-7 months max.

Thanks for a good read. 

couldnt see ur post till now,what had u done         

and yes i pay like 15 times the USD price :s 

also about game going to end like 6,7 months,... people said the same thing after beacons,people said theyll leave the game.people said many things and still,here we are 

game isnt going to end in 7 months,actually i believe it could even prosper if they could just advertise a little better 

I don't want to derail the thread, but when flash player goes end of life, the game is done. There's a big thread on it elsewhere. 
BiohazarDModerator
May 10, 2020, 07:1305/10/20
10/04/13
3817
Reverse Midas said:

fURY said:

Reverse Midas said:


Nice post. 

In terms of the brawl, I do agree that minimum points should probably have been applied in a better way (if you remember, initially only 1 brawl point was required.) 

I'd say your suggested minimum points are way too aggressive. One of the things you've failed to consider is the Plarium pricing model. Pretty much everything is priced against USD. 

So, if you're from a country that has a crappy USD exchange rate? Do you buy a 30 day Hunt so you can compete to get to minimum brawl points, or do you buy food? Especially now.

Anyway, the horse has long since bolted in this game, it's got a life of about 6-7 months max.

Thanks for a good read. 

couldnt see ur post till now,what had u done         

and yes i pay like 15 times the USD price :s 

also about game going to end like 6,7 months,... people said the same thing after beacons,people said theyll leave the game.people said many things and still,here we are 

game isnt going to end in 7 months,actually i believe it could even prosper if they could just advertise a little better 

I don't want to derail the thread, but when flash player goes end of life, the game is done. There's a big thread on it elsewhere. 
That's already been discussed in other threads, back on topic please :)