I built her for my CB team, and was unfortunately not really pleased with the result. Her A1 is just too unreliable to be used as a debuff extender, even with CA. She just can't keep her own poisons active.

I think there's no question she'll be better than FB, but whether it'll be enough to warrant booking her is hard to tell.

That's what I was afraid of. If I can make this unkillable work (Myth Tower with Helicath instead of Roshcard), FB will probably suffice. Otherwise, she is just too squishy and I waste gear slots on Lifesteal.

I use unbooked on alt account in a budget maneater comp.  I have narma in retaliation and it eyes out a 2 key on unm.

Definitely not worth lego books, cannot pretend that is not an issue... 😆 

I mean I wouldn't mind using Leggo books on her if I knew she's gonna be my end-game poisoner. But I'd hate to have built her and then pull a Draco or someone who will make her obsolete for that one role I need her for lol

Let me put it this way - it's extremely unlikely she'll take you to 1-key unm, and fb is more than sufficient to reach 2-key.

While building comps for people, I've had Rowan outdamage her without too much trouble. And there are several Epics I'd build before her, including Venomage, Anax, Rowan and Fayne.

Narma is a champ that you WANT to be good, but she's not as good in practice as she looks on paper. That said, she CAN one key when fully booked and in a high end 3:1 or 2:1 team.... But Yaga can 1 key in such teams too 

So, I get that she is intended to fill a slightly different space than Vizier, and so she can't be *quite* as good as he is in debuff duration boosting - but the difference between them is just so incredibly large.

Narma, fully booked on A1, has a 60% chance to boost three random debuffs by one turn. Vizier, fully booked on A1, has a 50% chance to boost *all* debuffs by one turn.

At least make Narma's A1 100% chance for the three random debuffs, instead of 60% :/

Simple enough. Looks like I'm saving the books for someone else. 

I have both Rowan and Fayne. Never built them because I've been running a killable team. I mean the team is close to unkillable team, but wasn't speed tuned to any specifics. The teram still one-keys NM for me, but it fails in UNM from time to time, so I'm building up Demytha to pair with Helicath. If I can get the Block Damage to stay on, I might start building up some of my damage dealers squishy with tons of damage. 

One issue is I'll be benching Krisk, so I'll need a debuffer, a role which Fayne also fills.   

I just got my Helicath-Tuhanarak-Demytha comp to work, so I can build 2 squishy damage dealers. Geo seems to be lacking utility in a Black Damage comp. Since Demytha replaced Krisk, I need someone to decrease defence. Will probably build Fayne or use Belanor or Rhazin (both already built). Would Narma have more utility to be supplementary to Fayne or should I keep FB? Also, you think Fenshi would be of any use as a secondary poisoner, especially with his A3 mechanic? 

Fayne should be in, no question. Belanor and Narma will be pretty close in terms of damage output. Narma does the poisoning and extending, but her face damage is quite low. Belanor on the other hand does quite a bit of face damage, but brings no poisons.

If either are already booked, go with them. If neither are booked, I'd probably lean towards just running FB and seeing if that gets you to two-key (which it should).

Gotcha. First things first - Fayne. I just pulled Big Deac Armstrong himself, so he and Fayne are on the next train to 12-3 Brutal. FB and Belanor are both maxed and booked, but neither is geared for good damage (both wearing mediocre LS gear). My Konstantin is geared for damage, I could try running him instead of Belanor since Fayne already brings debuffs. Just not sure if raw damage output can compete with Poison Sensitivity and Poisons FB brings. But he does hit hard with all skills. 

You can "probably" just math this out. Using FB as an example, you get two poisons and poison sensitivity to boost your existing poisons.

Both Fayne and FB do two-turn duration poisons, and let's leave the blue mastery extending it out of the calculus for now, for simplicity. Fayne's poisons will get boosted for both turns, while FB's will only get boosted for one turn.

Without FB, Fayne will get 50k * 2 * 2 = 200k damage every three turns from poisons, for a total of 66.6K damage per turn average.

With FB, Fayne will get 62.5k * 2 * 2 = 250k damage every three turns from poisons, for a total of 83.33K damage per turn average, while FB will get 62.5K * 2 + 50k * 2 = 225K, or 75K per turn average.

So put another way, FB's contribution is going to be basically negligable face damage but three WM procs for about 60k apiece, + 75K from her poisons, + ~16.66K from her extra damage contributed to Fayne, for a total of about 150K damage per turn average.

If Belanor can do more than 150K damage per turn average, then you run him. Same goes for Konstantin.

I guess once I max Fayne, which should take me a week or so, I'll get to testing. Observe her damage with FB, see how she does without FB and how much damage others deal. I'm also tempted to try Alika for face damage, her A2 is made for CB and can be booked to 2 turn cooldown. Problem is booking her lol. All in due time, though. We'll see how everything else goes. Thanks, Kram.

There's a point for many accounts where raw damage outperforms poisons and poison sensitivity. This point comes WAY earlier for teams that have 4:3 DPS and 2:1 DPS.

FB is basically just stacking poisons. She does very little other damage. A champ like Fayne, when properly built, can do 30 million damage because she hits so darn hard. The poisons are nice extra damage at that point, and her debuffs are literally made for Clan Boss.... an abosolute S-tier clan boss champ.

Many of the higher end teams wouldn't run Belanor AND Fayne, since they are both in the Debuffer + DPS role. But I can see running him if you can build him well at the Helicath speeds for his Unkillable team.

It's interesting cause while we talked about Narma being mid tier, with Fayne I would  cnsider running her, especially if you've got her to 60. Adding in the extensions means keeping Fayne's poisons going a bit better, and poisons sensitivity is also nice.

A very well built Fayne can two key all on her own in a 2:1 unkillable team though, so that's her top end. :)

My Fayne is not as built as I'd like her (3.3K ATK, 99% crit rate, 186 crit damage, 247 Accuracy), but she's still missing a ring and an amulet, and she's lvl47 for now. 

Still need masteries on Demytha, she's just a speed right now. 

Here's a question: the way it's running right now, Demytha and Helicath are able to keep Block Damage on consistently and Tuhanarak wipes off the stun before Demytha gets to go. Should I disable Demytha's A2 to get extra Warmaster hits in? The only buffs I can think of being placed are Continuous Heal from Tuhanarak and Demytha and Shield from Helicath. 

Question for you, Kram:

If I'm running Fayne in a Block Damage comp, I could completely disable Narma's A2, which has her cycling A1 3 times instead of 2. Effectively, that should be a sufficient boost to her debuff extension chance, right?

I'm still very hesitant because of books it takes to book her, but I wonder if that is a sufficient strategy for her when paired with Fayne. 

I cannot fathom booking her unless you are absolutely swimming in legendary books. 

The problem with Narma is that the three debuffs that are boosted are random. So you end up with lots of situations where you have a few debuffs that are sticking, but those last few slots just never end up lasting, because the wrong debuffs get boosted.

If it were to say instead, "boosts the duration of the three debuffs with the lowest duration by one turn" it'd be another story.

Also, FWIW, I also ran her with the A2 disabled. Wasn't enough, even booked.