You essentially have two choices. Either build a sub-par speed nuke team because you don't have a 30% speed lead, and hope that your gear will make up the difference, or build a go-second team. Valk will help hugely for the former, because her passive makes up for some of the loss in speed.

Speed nuke:

Genbo lead

Khatun

Apoth

Valk

For a go-second team to work, you'll almost certainly need a champ like Rhaz with an RES aura. Do you have something like that?

khatun  For  speed  

apoth  for  speed  boost  And  a  great  Heal  

drexthar  

valk  

what  kind  of  equiment  you  have  for  them  

Thanks for the advice guys but neither of those work (I've tried them)... I don't have an issue really going first (unless it is against really suped up Arbiters). My apothecary is running at 252 speed + the speed boost from Genbo. Ursala (reflex gear with 213 sp + Genbo and Apoth boosts) usually then lands the increase attack, then into the decrease defense Serris (189 sp) and then my Genbo (188 sp) slam before the enemy gets a turn. The problem is it doesn't quite kill their revivers. With subbing out the increase attack and decrease defense for a bit of turn meter boost (which I don't really need) and to get a shield, that although beefy, will just get nuked away just prolongs the fight 1 or 2 turns longer before it's over.

And for the other build, my Drexthar hits pretty hard, as does Valk, but that isn't going to take down teams... not enough dmg or control with it. It's basically a speed/def build. I'd either need to go more dmg with the speed, or more def with less speed for that to work.

I was thinking more along the lines of the go second approach that Kramaswamy was suggesting with Ursala, Valk, Genbo and Serris. Even if they manage to nuke everyone but Ursala and Valk, Ursala has a bit more speed, can revive them all and buff them with increase def and strengthen, valk gets the boost to shield with the inc def, serris can still remove buffs, decrease att and def, and Genbo can still smack. But if I'm doing a go-second build, should I build out Cardinal instead and replace Ursala? Should I replace Genbo with Inithwe so they can't revive once he kills them?

So my gear is decent, certainly not top tier but enough to get the speed lead if I want it, and keep it. As I said, I can smack pretty hard with Gembo (100%crit, 220% crit dmg), decent def/shield with Valk (169 speed, 5433 def) but it seems every team has a Gorgorab, Duchess, Scyl, Siphi (or more than 1), that just revives anyone I kill faster than I can take them down and they can take me down...

Oh, and no Rhazin yet... I'm 2 rares away...

Since swapping out Apothecary for Valk (go second build), I just went 15 for 16 in Gold 1... we'll see how this works...

How much atk does genbo have? I think your speed nuke team is the right approach. Are you seeing any bots in g1/g2? Or all real teams? 

Is vogoth 60? A go 2nd team with valk and vogoth against glass cannon nuke teams should be some easy wins.  If u have seeker or sandlashed for lead?

Maybe you could try the following:

• High Khatun as lead (no Genbo in my suggested team, so you need her spd aura)
• Madame Serris decrease def
• Dark Elhain nuke (she can buff her own attack, the hardest hitting champ for that team)
• Ninja freeze

Make sure Ninja has enough accuracy to land his freeze on everybody. They get their turn and just unfreeze, so you can go again. Any unkillable buffs from Skullcrown/Leo will expire in their unfreezing turn, you can kill champs like that with the A1 of anybody in your second turn. And Ninja with his burn attack has a nice move for a second turn, especially if only one reviver is alive and gets all 3 hits.

I just don't think any team not running Valk will have a chance. You don't have the necessary speed leads to do it. HK/Genbo are only at 20%.

Any combo with Genbo lead, HK, and Valk I think has a good chance of working. 252 speed HK will not take you to Gold 4 without Valk. And if Genbo isn't wiping the team out on his own, your problem is just that you need to gear him better.

I was running HK with ~290 speed until I got Arbiter and even HK was enough to stay in gold IV.

I also use Genbo, you do have to use his built in 30% crit rate to get cdmg gloves, savage set +attack up + decrease defense + weaken he does around 100k dmg per hit as long as you do manage to go first.

The key part here is that your HK had 290 speed. At 290 speed you can absolutely be competitive, but at 250 speed you're going to just get crushed without Valk's passive to compensate.

Genbo has 3279 attack. I'm not sure about the bots... how would I recognize them?

Vogoth is only lvl 40 (I just got him) but I have "chickens" that I could get him to 60 easy. Unfortunately, I don't have seeker or sandslashed (I'd love seeker for a demyth clanboss team since I have her and heiress...).

The only problem with this is that I don't have turn meter control... no turn meter boost/decrease. So everyone would have to sacrifice dmg for speed. I tried a slight variation of what you proposed with Genbo lead, apothecary for the speed and turnmeter boost with my fully booked Ninja (usually froze everyone) and Serris with Gembo. I thought that would be the way to go too with speed boost, freeze control, decrease defense and Genbo smack but it still didn't seem to work for me too well. :( Less so even compared to the other teams I mentioned.

Any reason you suggest HK over apothecary? Same speed and turn meter boost but apothecary has 2 more base speed and has a heal. Genbo's aura also gives 20% speed so you don't need the HK aura. My apothecary is 60 and HK is only 50.

Nope. Both are the same, for all intents and purposes. I just find Khatun to be more all-around useful, since she's one of the very few champs with a speed aura that works everywhere. Since your apo is 60, I'd stick with him.

You mentioned that I'll need to gear Gembo better in order to make him smack more. So what am I looking at for my Gembo? He is currently in Savage with 3279 attack, 100% crit (with his 30% boost), 208 crit dmg and 188 speed. 

Actually, all of his savage gear needs to be better now that I look at it! :P My gauntlets are speed gloves with 80% crit dmg, 13% crit rate and 16 speed, my boots are speed boots with 45 speed, 13% crit rate and 14% attack... my amulet is 33% crit dmg... lol its my savage gear that needs improvement!

Those stats are actually pretty solid overall. A lot depends on who you choose for that 4th spot. If you take another speed booster, you could afford to drop some of that speed in exchange for more ATK. Personally though, since you're already at 188 speed with your lead at 250, you probably won't benefit *that* much from another speed boost. You'll probably be best off running Serris to strip shield and DEF down.

As an aside - you do have one other option. You've got one of the gimmick champs - Cardinal. You could try running a comp with three nukers + her. The way this team works is to give her super-high resist and DEF/HP. You'll need a minimum of 300 RES for this to work. Also helps to give her the Swift Parry set, so she gets unkillable if they happen to do enough damage. Their team will almost certainly go first, and almost certainly wipe the others out, but usually she'll live. Then she revives the rest of the team and boosts their TM to 100%, and they take the rest.

In that setup, you'll probably want to run something like Genbo, Ninja, and Serris. You'll want to make sure your team roster spots are set up so that Ninja goes first when revived, to AOE freeze, then Serris to AOE def down and shield strip, and then Genbo last to finish off.

Why don't you post some pics of the full builds for us?

I also believe Speed Nuke is the way to go for solid progression. 

Skadi recommended:

• High Khatun as lead (no Genbo in my suggested team, so you need her spd aura)
• Madame Serris decrease def
• Dark Elhain nuke (she can buff her own attack, the hardest hitting champ for that team)
• Ninja freeze
   

That's a good team, however, I might run instead:

• Genbo in lead, High Khatun goes first
• Madame Serris Dec Def
• Genbo self buffs and then nukes
• Ninja uses his AoE freeze to lock anyone else down and give you time to finish them off

I was actually thinking about that strat and was going to suggest something like that as well in my original post but it was getting a bit long... If I went that route, would it be worthwhile to have Serris go second (before Ninja) to strip the buffs and debuff to make his freeze also do a bit more dmg? It might make the liklihood of Genbo finishing them a bit better. My serris currently runs 189 (1 faster than Gembo) and my Ninja at 201. Actually that would also swap out my "speed" banner for an accuracy banner on Ninja too...

My Ninja is also currently running 3831 attack, 91% critrate and 89% crit dmg in lifesteal gear with 201 speed but only 106 accuracy (I use him in CB as my main dmg dealer until I move to the unkillable team). But if I reduce his speed with the +78 accuracy banner I've got, he might fit into the budget unkillable team as well as arena...

The problem with Serris going first is the way the ticks work in this game. Essentially, any time a champ gets a turn, every other champ gains a bit of turn as well. If Serris goes first, there's a chance that someone on the other team will go before Ninja can. It's not worth the risk IMO - Ninja's role is to freeze their team, so you'll want him to have a really high ACC - we're talking like 400+. Damage is secondary. Likewise, Serris needs to have a similarly high ACC. The nice thing here though is that Genbo can literally have base speed - you'll dump every point possible into ATK, CR, and CD.

All that being said - this is a gimmick team, and you'll get absolutely demolished on defense, since everyone will know exactly what your plan is, and bring a team that can take it on.

That's true, and Ninja's A1 screws up my budget unkillable build with him anyways...

As for the arena defense, I would likely run a different team anyways like you suggest. Maybe a Valk based team there.

Anyways, thx for the advice on all of this! Right now with the Valk, Serris, Gembo Ursala combo I'm winning about 90+% of my fights. I think I'll build cardinal and my budget unkillable team next and see how that goes.

Cheers!