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Arena Team Power ratings a hoax?

Arena Team Power ratings a hoax?

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Apr 9, 2021, 16:5904/09/21
09/21/19
12

Arena Team Power ratings a hoax?

I’m confused. Do Arena Team Power ratings mean anything? Or are they a hoax? 

I have a fully-ascended L60 team with Arena Team Power rating 177k. My fastest champ has Speed 230. 

I battle a Gold II opponent with Team Power 92k. 

All opponent champs go twice before my fastest who has Speed 230. The opponent then goes on to obliterate me quickly with ease. 

Shouldn’t a team with all four champs at Speed 231+ have a higher rating than 92k? 

I have Team Power 177k vs 92k. I get easily defeated. What’s the deal? Why even bother including Team Power in the Arena UI when it apparently means nothing? 

This Team Power incongruity happens constantly. I suggest Plarium just discontinue showing Team Power in Arena as it apparently means nothing. 

Unless someone can educate me on how Team Power works that makes sense?  

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Apr 9, 2021, 17:0704/09/21
Apr 9, 2021, 17:10(edited)
10/15/20
869

Team power counts things such as crit damage and resistance.

A champ with a low speed but high resistance and crit damage etc will have a high 'power rating' despite being slow. 

As an example, my apothecary is my fastest- 261 sheet speed, but he has no accuracy, no crit damage, mediocre resistance, just good defense... his 'power' is 33k

My nuker is slower, but has nearly 200 crit damage and 101 crit rate and far higher attack... and her power is listed at 48k power despite being slower.

231 is far too slow for gold i think, you may struggle. I am G2 as well, my fastest is now up to 261 (before aura) and i lose the speed race half the time.


Apr 9, 2021, 17:0904/09/21
01/27/21
289

Speed isn't the main component of how team power is calculated.  A quick google search broght up this comment from a mod on this forum about a year ago:

"It depends on resistance, crit rate/dmg and main stat (the one you read in the skills description). "

Which matches the description that I've seen elsewhere.  I think plarium has it explained somewhere but I didn't want to waste time looking for it.  It is pretty amazing to me though that you are that high with such a slow team.  First thing I did when I got high khatun was ascend her for the extra speed and I put on all the speed rolls I could get and I have her at 243 and I don't have a single speed roll on any barbarian artifact.  I lose the speed battle about half the time now (used to be 1/4-1/3 of the time just a few weeks ago) in Silver 2 and now Silver 1.

Apr 9, 2021, 17:3104/09/21
Apr 9, 2021, 17:32(edited)
09/21/19
12

Thanks for the answers about Speed!

But that doesn't answer my question about Team Power incongruity. Why do teams with half my Team Power consistently obliterate me? What is the point of Arena Team Power if it can't be used as a gauge of difficulty?

Apr 9, 2021, 17:5104/09/21
12/19/19
6280

Power is very useful to know, it just does not include speed.

Use all info available to guage difficulty:

1. Team Comp

2. Leader Aura

3. Player Level

4. Power


You get killed because your team is too slow.  If you are slower than opponent you need high resist/defense, immunity gear, and/or a comp designed to go second.  If you are so slow the other team is going 2x before you then you are going to lose no matter what your power is.  This is aka as the Zero multiplier effect.

Apr 9, 2021, 17:5204/09/21
06/25/20
6636
erik

Thanks for the answers about Speed!

But that doesn't answer my question about Team Power incongruity. Why do teams with half my Team Power consistently obliterate me? What is the point of Arena Team Power if it can't be used as a gauge of difficulty?

Short answer? Because glass cannon teams have low stats.

If your entire modus operandi is to go first and win before they can react, then you can afford to devote absolutely zero stats to anything other than what is important.

That means my Arbiter can stack pure speed and ignore all other stats. It means my Big'un can run zero HP/DEF/RES, because he'll never get attacked. And so on.

That 90K team power that obliterated you likely had the most bare-bones glass cannon team possible, because really all it is doing is ensuring it goes first.

Team power is a good tool when comparing apples to apples. If you have your own glass cannon team, and you have a higher team power, you should, on average, win more often.

Glass cannons are a bit of a special case, though, because of how much speed matters for them. 230 speed is *way* too slow - remember that if you're running, for example, Arbiter lead, you're giving your entire team +30% from the aura and then another +30% from your A1. And reaching 230+ speed is not difficult at all, if you run 6 speed items.


Apr 9, 2021, 20:2204/09/21
06/15/20
1

I have to agree its so broken that I have to question why do I bother to play Arena

Nothing makes sence 

Apr 9, 2021, 20:3504/09/21
10/08/17
1069

It does seem as  not enough value  is  put to Speed when calculating team power

After all speed  is a major factor to win in arena

Apr 10, 2021, 02:2604/10/21
06/22/19
800

High resistance will give high team power. Having high team power does not mean you will always win against low team power. You still need good team synergy and strategy. 

If high team power will always win against lower team power then they should remove team power as players will just focus on bringing up team power instead of thinking of a strategy to beat opponents. 

At low arena tier team power will not make sense. But at high gold4 to platinum rank, this is a good basis whether your opponent is running high resist team (300k team power and above) or not. It will give the attacker an advantage by knowing the build of the opposing team since high resist team usually equates to lower speeds. 

Apr 10, 2021, 02:3604/10/21
06/22/19
800

Also, team power helps you gauge whether your debuffer can land debuffs on your opponent. 

For example, I have a Serris that can land debuffs against below 300k team power teams. If fighting against above 300k team power I have another Serris for that in another build. 

Knowing the team power (and understands it) of your opponent is a huge advantage. 

Apr 10, 2021, 04:1304/10/21
06/25/20
6636
PriestGuardian

It does seem as  not enough value  is  put to Speed when calculating team power

After all speed  is a major factor to win in arena

Honestly, I do wonder whether that would solve "most" problems. If speed were given a much higher contribution to overall team power, along with perhaps putting a soft cap on the difference in team power that you're presented with - some sort of exponentially decreasing likelihood to be given opponents that are either higher or lower than your power.

Apr 10, 2021, 05:3404/10/21
Apr 10, 2021, 05:44(edited)
10/06/20
126

I have realised that the kit of the champ is not that important, you will find champs with specific skills, what you really need is the stats, for example if I have 250 resistance, It will make the acuracy ineffective, the only question is if I have 4k defence, does that offset the 4k attack and vice versa? what about if I have 4k attack and 4k defence? 

does that mean if i have 4 hitters with 300 speed each, i do not need apothecary or any other speed boost champ?

by the way I have also noticed, that the opposing champions are always the same for the most part , what I mean to say is that I am getting teams in the arena from a pool of approximately 30 odd teams, how is this possible?

infact the champs do not matter in anything. I just saw campaign farmers like fell hound (rare) and shieldguard can farm nightmare (uncommon) , both do it solo.

Apr 18, 2021, 08:3404/18/21
Apr 18, 2021, 08:45(edited)
03/23/21
55

I have to reanimate this thread. The way, the team power is calculated, is a joke. It should be the way that team power indicates if a team is hard to beat or not. In reality, team power indicates nothing. 

If the arena would be a car race, we would have a Ferrari F 40 with a team power of 100k and a Fiat Panda with a Team Power of 200k. It's ridiculous!


i


i


Here, two of my opponents from arena. One teampower 215,606, the other team power 103,818. I won one fight and lost the other. Guess, wich fight was my victory?


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Ceterum censeo, the ban of my main account should be undone, I didn't spam, the detection algorithm doesn't work.    

Apr 18, 2021, 09:5204/18/21
01/31/21
200

Becouse there is no indicator, thats why it is indicator. low team power teams with speed lead are usualy speed oriented, so i think it is very good indicator that that teams can be very dangerous. (high speed glass cannons are usualy have kael and warmainden in team)

I build my team to take those teams, as once you win speed race and crack them open are single shoot. (can get them 7/10 battles)

As my Lead is HK, i tend to aviod arbiter/lyss/kaymar lead teams as in 80% i loose, but other HK and Gorg and other with speed aura 19-23% i'm able to crack open

As for unknown reason all my pools contain most of high def/hp and are +50k or more above me, then even i can go first and debuff DEF cannot kill them all even with my two nukers

I'm in S3/S4 tier now

Apr 18, 2021, 10:4004/18/21
07/11/20
42

Many decades of experience has shown that in head-to-head win-lose games and sports leagues the most equitable way to fairly match opponents is by past performance using an Elo-style rating system. The computer code for such rating schemes has been written many times and may well be in the public domain. 

IMHO, this would be the best way to fix the ongoing controversy of Team Power. Don't match players on that, instead match them on past performances against other players. 

There are a number of Youtube videos and web sites explaining how Elo works and how it can be implemented. 

 


Apr 18, 2021, 11:5004/18/21
03/23/21
55
tanthil

Becouse there is no indicator, thats why it is indicator. low team power teams with speed lead are usualy speed oriented, so i think it is very good indicator that that teams can be very dangerous. (high speed glass cannons are usualy have kael and warmainden in team)

I build my team to take those teams, as once you win speed race and crack them open are single shoot. (can get them 7/10 battles)

As my Lead is HK, i tend to aviod arbiter/lyss/kaymar lead teams as in 80% i loose, but other HK and Gorg and other with speed aura 19-23% i'm able to crack open

As for unknown reason all my pools contain most of high def/hp and are +50k or more above me, then even i can go first and debuff DEF cannot kill them all even with my two nukers

I'm in S3/S4 tier now

I know that low team power indicates a speednuking team. I run such a team, with double speed champs (Apo and Deacon Armstrong) myself. If I win the speedrace vs. another speed-team, I win the match. If I lose the speedrace, well... we know the outcome.

But there is no way to say if I will win the speedrace or not before I do it. I could flip a coin instead. Why is this "teampower" stat in the game at all? It indicates nothing. I don't need a low team power rating to recognize a speed-team, if I see Gorgorab and HK at the opponents team, I know that allready. 

The same for teams with high power. I won against this 215k team shown above easily. I lost vs. other teams that had something around 170k power (no picture from that fights). All of them where defensive teams that are supposed to survive the first hit and go second. Teampower doesn't show if you have a chance against them or not. The 215k team lost 2 members from my first attack, I fought against teams with 170k power that lost nobody. Erasing the teampower stat would change... nothing at all. 



Ceterum censeo, the ban of my main account should be undone, I didn't spam, the detection algorithm doesn't work.     

Apr 18, 2021, 12:1404/18/21
Apr 18, 2021, 12:14(edited)
03/23/21
55
Elvie Honeydripper

Many decades of experience has shown that in head-to-head win-lose games and sports leagues the most equitable way to fairly match opponents is by past performance using an Elo-style rating system. The computer code for such rating schemes has been written many times and may well be in the public domain. 

IMHO, this would be the best way to fix the ongoing controversy of Team Power. Don't match players on that, instead match them on past performances against other players. 

There are a number of Youtube videos and web sites explaining how Elo works and how it can be implemented. 

 


I totally agree with you here, I suggested the same months ago in another thread. As a chessplayer (at amateur level) I can say that Elo rating works in practice.

The controversy about the matchmaking from account power (not team power) is not really the same topic we're talking about in this thread, even if the debates may overlap at some point. I'm in Gold 2, there is no matchmaking from account power anymore in Gold Arena, that is only in Bronze and Silver. There is no matchmaking from your arena-team-power at all. The team power is just a stat that is supposed to indicate how strong a team is, it doesn't effect the matchmaking. That indication of strength is, where it overlaps with Elo-rating, but while Elo in chess gives a very good idea if your opponent is strong or not, the power rating in Raid totally fails at that job. It doesn't fail a little bit or sometimes, it totally fails. Flipping a coin as forecast if you win the arena match would have a better ratio.


Ceterum censeo, the ban of my main account should be undone, I didn't spam, the detection algorithm doesn't work.