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REMOVE the Arena Missions from the Arbiter Quest Line

REMOVE the Arena Missions from the Arbiter Quest Line

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Feb 19, 2021, 06:0602/19/21
06/29/20
12

REMOVE the Arena Missions from the Arbiter Quest Line

Clearly Plarium CAN'T or WON'T fix the abhorrent Arena Matching System thus making it next to impossible for the casual players or F2P players to obtain the required number of medals required to progress in the Arbiter Mission quest, so just remove the Arena Missions, please. There are plenty of missions in the quest that require a great deal of time and effort, so the Arena Missions are superfluous. All they add is level of frustration that will drive many casual/F2P players away from the game.

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202
Comments
56
Comments
Feb 19, 2021, 06:1502/19/21
10/14/20
2

100% Agree

Feb 20, 2021, 10:3302/20/21
04/14/20
1343

Let me put it this way... this has been requested pretty much non-stop for the past year or longer, including the long period when virtually everybody was struggling in arena - as opposed to right now when people in lower tiers certainly seem to be struggling, but up in gold arena is still way too easy rather than too hard, what with all the free wins. They didn't do it then; I don't think they're going to do it now. 

Feb 28, 2021, 04:3102/28/21
05/13/19
2326

NEVER! 

We love the Arena Missions.

It keeps you on your Toes.

Mar 1, 2021, 12:4303/01/21
04/18/19
205

Get to Bronze III for 2 Mission/Quests >> WHAT A JOKE ! ! ! 

These are the tteams i face all the time and it is kind of getting Sickening


i


Mar 1, 2021, 12:5403/01/21
12/19/19
6280

fluffy.... if you cant win all of those you are playing the game 100% wrong

Mar 1, 2021, 13:3903/01/21
05/13/19
2326

Easy Wins Fluffy!

You got this! 

You have to have confidence!


GreenKnightCommunity Manager
Mar 1, 2021, 15:5103/01/21
04/06/20
581

Hi

Currently, we are not planning to remove arena missions from the Arbiter Quest Line. They might be a more formidable challenge than most missions might, but they are like nothing else, teaches team composition and interactions that will help you move forward.

GreenKnightCommunity Manager
Mar 1, 2021, 16:0103/01/21
04/06/20
581
L9753

Let me put it this way... this has been requested pretty much non-stop for the past year or longer, including the long period when virtually everybody was struggling in arena - as opposed to right now when people in lower tiers certainly seem to be struggling, but up in gold arena is still way too easy rather than too hard, what with all the free wins. They didn't do it then; I don't think they're going to do it now. 

The classic arena has free competitiveness in it as the main point of it. While the Classic Arena might be the most formidable challenge on the missions, it is also e necessary to overcome. But there is an apparent dissonance for the new player between the difficulty of other features and first ventures inside the Classic Arena. We are closely monitoring the situation in the arena, and right now there are no difficulty spikes.

Mar 1, 2021, 16:2803/01/21
01/19/21
642

You have a system that not only runs counter to other parts of the game and softlocks progress for one entirely, but also counteracts itself. It is a failure on multiple points, and it's incredibly disheartening to see what is essentially a sugar coated version of being told to suck it up.

Mar 3, 2021, 13:3203/03/21
12/27/20
6
GreenKnight

Hi

Currently, we are not planning to remove arena missions from the Arbiter Quest Line. They might be a more formidable challenge than most missions might, but they are like nothing else, teaches team composition and interactions that will help you move forward.

Total bullshit. Complete total bullshit.

Mar 3, 2021, 15:0603/03/21
04/17/20
51

Easy match, free arbiter, free misson what do you want, or you don't doing any thing and get free arbiter, may be remove arena, remove ascend, only click get arbiter, I stuck in bronze three month, stuck in sliver and I working very hard to get Arbiter, how possible to remove, remove and remove... ?

Mar 3, 2021, 16:1703/03/21
05/13/19
2326

I agree with Green Knight.

You people need to learn how to build team compositions better.

You people need to suck it up.  


I blame Auto Campaign Battles!

The Auto Campaign Battles have made you people soft!


Back in my day, We didn't have Auto Campaign Battles.

We use to manaul Campaign Runs, until our hand got Carpal Tunnel.


It's clear to me what is happening!

You login to the game and do your 30 Free Auto Battles.

Than you head over to Arena and expect to win.

Than end up getting stomped!


And you just can't figure out why?

I'LL TELL YOU WHY!

It is because your team is level 40.

It is beause your team is unascended.

It is because your team is unbooked.

It is because your team is unmasteried.

It is because your team gear is only +8 

It is because your team has no synergy.


I bet my Kael can solo your whole team.

I bet my Kael Team Power is more than your whole team.

i

You people are not even trying to improve.

You are just complaining to complain.


Why don't you people go improve yourself?

No excuses! 

Do it! Do it!

Mar 3, 2021, 17:5403/03/21
01/19/21
642

Alright, fine, screw it. Let's do this, even though I'm sure it'll be a waste of my time to write all this down, even assuming anyone bothers to read it.

People around here seem to suffer from the delusion that the stronger you get, the higher you will rise in the arena. It's an understandable delusion, because that's the way ranking and matchmaking is supposed to work. That's how it does work in just about every game ever made which feature a competitive element with some sort of performance evaluation (there are several games, especially in the early days of multiplayer gaming, where you just joined a random server and got stomped or did the stomping because there was no matchmaking and no ranking). Nevertheless, it is a delusion, because that's not how it works. I know this, because I experienced it myself in real time.

I made it halfway to S3. Now I'm not even clinging to S1. Did I get worse in the last week? Not really. If anything I've improved my team. Did literally everyone suddenly become considerably stronger? Well, maybe, that's hard to say, but I seriously doubt it. Yet, the stronger I've supposedly become, the more difficulties do I encounter in the arena.

So why is that, exactly? Short version; the arena matchmaking system is trash. Absolute garbage. Certainly the worst I've ever seen, and quite possibly among the worst ever conceived. It is so bad that I'm almost sure it's intentional, because I really don't see how someone could accidentally make something that is this atrocious. 

Long version, it's because they have a system that evaluates the performance of a player and then doesn't primarily use that performance as a basis for further matchmaking. Like I said, I made it halfway to S3, and I won quite a few matches in S2 while I was up there. It wasn't because I had great champions or because I'm a tactical genius. It's because, albeit unintentionally, I gamed the system. I suspected there was something going on when the arena suddenly and for no apparent reason started getting more difficult. A lot more difficult.

I started collecting some data points in order to figure it out. I found very little correlation between player level and team power, but I did find some between total power. It's somewhat expensive to manipulate though, so I only had minor variations. Then, as I've outlined in another thread here, I opened a bunch of ancient shards during the 2x event, and my total power spiked up by quite a bit (42%) to be specific. Incidentally, my opponents suddenly did the same in the span of 10 minutes. I've since collected some more data. I have about 40 data points now. To summarize, power levels are generally within the +/-25% range, generally with some bias on the higher end and the average being slightly higher than my own, but that may just be noise. I plotted the trend line for relative average account power as well using these data points, and it gave me a flat, straight line (well, not entirely, k=1.06 to be specific). My conclusion? Arena matchmaking is based on total power (within an arena point span). It may be based on other things as well, but it's an enormous coincidence if power is not a factor.

So with the assertion that total account power determines who you face in the arena, let me reiterate my earlier point: the matchmaking is complete and utter garbage. I suspect that's sort of vague though, so let's expand on that a bit.

Let's start with the minor detail that it negates its entire purpose for existing in the first place. You literally have a system that ruins its own supposed function. Having a ranking system is based around the idea that you advance as you get stronger and face stronger opponents as you go, by virtue of them having advanced as well. The current matchmaking does not guarantee that. Instead, you'll be matched against similar opponents regardless of your progression in the rankings. You have teams of all levels of actual performances grouped yet isolated from each other in the same tier. It's almost like weight classes in boxing, except in this case it'd be more like grouping boxers by hair length. It makes no sense in the context of what the arena actually is.

Second, I lied a bit. Getting stronger doesn't necessarily mean you face stronger opponents, depending on how you define stronger. You can game the system, as I did. Put every ounce of account power you have into your arena team, neglect everything else, and you'll be at an advantage. Do the opposite, you're at a disadvantage. So, even if you were to run with the inane notion that basing matchmaking on account power in some way makes it fair, you're wrong, because it's not. It just punishes you for playing the game "the wrong way", based on some arbitrary and undisclosed definition of what the right way is. Oh, and the power calculation itself? That's garbage too, so even if you were to ignore all the previously mentioned problems, it's still nonsense.

Third, continuing the line of thought from above, it arbitrary defines a right and a wrong way to play the game, at least as far as the arena is concerned, despite having no reason to do so. Are you the completionist that likes to collect as many champions as possible just to say you have them? Well, sucks to be you, hope you didn't plan on using the arena. You want to build a strong a versatile roster to max out the crypts? No arena for you. You have an arena system that for no reason whatsoever punishes you for trying to participate in other areas of the game, and vice versa.

Fourth, as is the topic at hand here really, it locks progression on yet another unrelated part of the game, specifically the missions. Judging by the display of head stuck in sand previously, that's not likely to change, despite the argument for it being so succinctly summarized in a previous post as "complete BS".

Now, I've only been to S2 as I mentioned, so the sitation may be different in higher tiers. If I were to theorycraft a bit, I would imagine that the amount of bloat relative to useful power will flatten out as you get further and further towards late-game. Most people at that stage will likely have multiple champions highly leveled with gear and upgrades to match, so having a bunch of level 1 nobodies and food in storage doesn't contribute to your total power in any meaningful way (for me, it's well above half my total). There's also a difference in ecosystems, as the top will naturally have less people in it, so you'll find more extremes, and that if you're capable of putting together a, say, 200k power team, then perhaps you'll simply run out of equal opponents in lower tiers and brute force your way through. In other words, the system will still be garbage, put it'll be enough garbage for it to form a sort of semi-solid platform for it to stand on. At lower tiers though, it's all broken glass and questionable syringes.

Oh, and spare me the trite old remarks about how I just need to git gud and that I'm just complaining because I didn't git gud yet. That's not the point. If the problem was I sucked, which I very well may, and therefore was in the lower tiers until I could get a better team, that'd be fine. That'd just be a normal, functioning matchmaking at work. The problem is that there is no lower tier. But I did get to S2 once, so that really just leaves two options here. Either the system is garbage because I can't get up to S2 now, or it is garbage because it let me get to S2 before despite being weaker at the time. Oh, and the arena progression missions would still, likely, be way out of proportion.


So to summarize the whole thing, I'm sure I missed some reason for why it's garbage, but it is. It counteracts itself. It counteracts other parts of the game. It does so for no apparent reason and does more harm than good. Almost anything would be better. Literally nothing would be better. At least if it was random, you couldn't screw yourself over by breaking some untold, nonsensical rule.

Mar 3, 2021, 18:2103/03/21
12/19/19
6280

@EGDNIT 


Analysis seems quite thorough, and if it is correct why don't you use it to your advantage.  You used the term "tactical genius", apply the knowledge to action.  Whatever the matchmaking is based on, it is not arbitrary (something is coded).  If consolidating your power is good, then DO THAT.  It does not mean put all your power in arena team, it means your roster should be built for quality not quantity.  More 1) 60s than 50s, more 2) 16 gear than 12+gear 3) the 16+gear is not campaign farmed common gear.  QUALITY  Those that struggle in game, and ask for help on here have one common theme....


THEY ARE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG BASED ON THEIR DESIRED OUTCOMES


Play the game however you want, but if you want to advance it's simple.


Post a screenshot of your roster, I am guessing #1 is where you are lacking.




 


Mar 3, 2021, 18:4403/03/21
01/19/21
642
Trips

@EGDNIT 


Analysis seems quite thorough, and if it is correct why don't you use it to your advantage.  You used the term "tactical genius", apply the knowledge to action.  Whatever the matchmaking is based on, it is not arbitrary (something is coded).  If consolidating your power is good, then DO THAT.  It does not mean put all your power in arena team, it means your roster should be built for quality not quantity.  More 1) 60s than 50s, more 2) 16 gear than 12+gear 3) the 16+gear is not campaign farmed common gear.  QUALITY  Those that struggle in game, and ask for help on here have one common theme....


THEY ARE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG BASED ON THEIR DESIRED OUTCOMES


Play the game however you want, but if you want to advance it's simple.


Post a screenshot of your roster, I am guessing #1 is where you are lacking.




 


I did use it to my advantage, I just didn't know it, or at least I didn't realize it was quite that bad.

I don't use it to my advantage now because I shouldn't have to. I want to be able to build better teams for dungeons. I want to be able to do crypts. I don't want the game to be all about the arena, and even if I did, as I mentioned also I suspect the decreasing number of opponents would just softlock my progress at the higher tiers instead, where I need better champions with better gear that I won't be able to get without increasing my total power with more champions (and thus reducing my relative arena team power). Whether I'm playing the game wrong or not, it's just bad game design to lock down player choices for no reason, and that remains true no matter what tier I am in the arena. Like I said, this isn't about how well I'm doing, it's about abysmal design choices. As for now, I've just given up on the arena, and only play it for the quests. Maybe I'll revisit it once I reach that power threshold I mentioned.

As for my team, again, not really relevant to the topic at hand, but I've got Madame Serris, Athel, Spirit Host and Shaman (I tried High Khatun but I don't have the gear to beat other speed teams or the damage output to one-shot a non-speed team, so Shaman allows me to revive Athel who plays the role of glass cannon). Either way, a worse team than that got me to S2, and again, either I shouldn't have been able to in the first place, or I should be able to now. Then I was facing teams approximately as good/bad as mine. Now I'm facing teams 2-3x my power level. Either is fine with me, as long as it's consistent. Again, this isn't about whether I suck or not. It's not about whether I belong at the very bottom. It's that the ranking and matchmaking is fundamentally broken.

Mar 3, 2021, 19:4903/03/21
12/19/19
6280

If you are using Shaman in arena you belong in B1...

If you focus on FW at all, other than having a champ to do level 1 for daily missions you are shooting yourself in the foot

You should focus on Dragon & Arena, I'll ask again how many 60s and how many 50s? It is relevant.  

Mar 3, 2021, 20:0903/03/21
01/19/21
642

Okay, I suck, will always suck and will never advance out of B1. Cool? Great. So with that settled, can we talk about the actual issue instead of some thinly veiled ad hominem now?

Mar 3, 2021, 20:3303/03/21
12/19/19
6280

The issue is not with arena matchmaking... that is what I am saying.


1. Level the right heroes to 6* (do this and you will get further in dragon = better gear)

2. Change your arena team from horrible to halfway decent, early game you really have little choice but to play the speed game.  HK, MS, SH, Athel is probably your best option


Your approach to the game sucked, FYI mine did too when I started.  I was as bad as you, I wasted 30-60 days trying do progress missions instead of just farming chickens.  The missions are not going any where, and they are most likely PURPOSELY designed to suck you down the wrong path so you spend $$$ to correct your mistakes.

Mar 3, 2021, 21:0103/03/21
01/19/21
642

Alright, you're clearly not listening. There is an issue with arena matchmaking when you gather more champions, more gear, get stronger... and end up doing worse. When I can literally open a bunch of shards and within the span of 10 minutes get considerably harder opponents despite literally nothing else changing. When I can get higher than where I currently am using a considerably worse team than I do now. So yes, there is an issue with the arena matchmaking, or possibly with the entire concept of the arena, because it's definitely not working the way rankings and matchmaking does in literally every other case I can think of.

So no, it doesn't matter what my team is. What matters is that it used to suck more than it does now, yet I did better. No, it doesn't matter where you think I belong, clearly I've exceeded that already and if you're right and I'm supposed to be stuck in B4, then there's clearly something wrong because I'm not.  No, it doesn't matter if my approach to the game sucks. What matters is that the game punishes you in the arena for not focusing exclusively on your arena team, while at the same time punishing you in other areas of the game for doing just that. I'm not talking about sub-optimal progression, things that slow or even halt your progression, I'm talking about progression that makes your situation worse.

So please, if you could, stop talking about what I'm doing or not and start talking about what I actually said. I presented four points in that previous post, none of which related to my arena performance and only one touched on mission progression, and not even in any sort of personal sense but in the sense that it is completely out of sync with the objectives surrounding it. I do not care about my own, personal progression in this context, so there is no need for you to bring it up. I'm not here to ask for help to get further. For all I know, if they actually fixed it, I could end up doing much worse than I am. And that's fine.

Mar 3, 2021, 21:4003/03/21
10/15/20
2041

I'm not sure if the arena matchmaking really depends on account power. Is there any real investigation about that? We don't know how the matchmaking in arena works, and the speculation of a few players is not a proof.

It's kind of illogical that you get stronger opponents in the arena by such a mechanic. The arena matchmaking definetly is not coded to punish the player EGDNIT. If your account power raises by buying shards, it will be the same for everyone else. How comes that the TEAM POWER of your opponents increase by your ACCOUNT POWER? Other players (your opponents in arena!) open shards too, they level up champions they use at CB and in dungeons, but not in arena, too. How comes that only your opponents in arena get harder? The player xy you had in your enemy-list in arena yesterday opened the same number of shards as you did. If the way of  matchmaking works like you saied, he should be in your enemy-list again. And where do all the "harder" opponents come from? If that would be true, shouldn't there be some threads like "arena is so easy now. It was a hard job a year ago, but now all the bloody noobs are in my arena tier"? If you get harder opponents now, from their point of view they get weaker opponents.


In addition to that, the opponent's team power is not really an indication how the fight will end. In a speednuker team, a champ like High Khatun does nothing than giving her speedbuff in the first round. With lvl 40 she can do exactly the same as with lvl 60. But an opponent with a lvl 40 Khatun will probably have a much lower team power than an opponent's team with the same champs at lvl 60.

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