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Skill description with "their" vs "this hero"

Skill description with "their" vs "this hero"

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Feb 11, 2021, 16:2602/11/21
02/13/20
4

Skill description with "their" vs "this hero"

I have a question regarding skills that do the same thing but are worded differently.

I first noticed this on Visix the Unbowed. She has a skill called Sinister Allies which "Attacks all enemies. Has a 75% chance of placing a 30% [Decrease SPD] debuff for 2 turns. Places a [Shield] buff for 2 turns on this Champion equal to 20% of their MAX HP for 2 turns. "

I used to play Warhammer 40k tabletop and there were often some rules lawyering going on because GWs rules writing team sucks balls. When it comes to skills that do the same thing they should all be worded exactly the same to avoid confusion.

My Question: On attack skills that give a [Shield] buff and uses their MAX HP does it mean the shield you get is based on the targets MAX HP or the casters MAX HP? I've looked at serveral videos and none of them notice the wording and just say it's based on the casters MAX HP. To me "Attack something and get a shield equal to 10% of their MAX HP" would suggest the shield you get is 10% of the targets MAX HP and not the casters.

Is it all just a case of the developers not knowing the grammar or do the skills actually behave differently? Doomscreeches skill description looks more like it was run through google translate than written by a person fluent in english?

It's probably too much to ask but if possible I'd like all skills and abilities in the game that do the exact same thing to be worded exactly the same so as to avoid confusion. Their can be used as both a singular and plural if I'm not mistaken (English is my 4th language). Their to me means someone else, like their car, their op skills. I use it to describe something from a 3rd person view. "This heroes skill is op" vs "This hero, their skill is op" both mean the same thing but are written differently because they need to be afaik.

If I'm completely wrong and simply don't know the correct grammar can someone please explain it to me?


THIS Example Heroes 

Doomscreech has: Shelter [HP] (Cooldown: 6 turns)
Attacks all enemies. Places a [Shield] buff equal to 30% MAX HP on this Champion for 2 turns. Damage increases according to this Champion’s MAX HP. 

Duchess Lilitu has: Abyssal Invocation [DEF]
Attacks 1 enemy 2 times, then places a [Shield] buff equal to 10% of this Champion’s MAX HP for 2 turns on this Champion and the ally with the lowest HP. 

Nazana has: Unholy Contract (Cooldown: 4 turns)
Places a 50% [Ally Protection] buff on all allies for 2 turns. Places a [Shield] buff on this Champion for 2 turns. The value of the [Shield] is equal to 40% of this Champion’s MAX HP

Gomlok Skyhide has: Enchanter [Passive] (Cooldown: 3 turns)
Whenever 4 or more buffs are placed on the enemy team in a single turn, places a [Shield] buff on this Champion for equal to 15% of this Champion’s MAX HP for 2 turns. 

Azure has: Aegis (Cooldown: 6 turns)
Places a 50% [Ally Protection] buff on all allies except this Champion for 2 turns. Places a [Shield] buff on this Champion equal to 40% of this Champion’s MAX HP for 2 turns. This buff cannot be removed. 


THEIR Example Heroes

Lord Champfort has: Thornsphere [Passive] (Cooldown: 2 turns)
At the start of each turn, places a [Shield] buff on this Champion equal to 20% of their MAX HP for 2 turns. Will place a 15% [Decrease SPD] debuff for 1 turn on whichever enemy attacks this Champion.

Logan the Steadfast has: Crushing Blow [HP]
Attacks 1 enemy. Heals all allies by 25% of the damage inflicted. Places a [Shield] buff on this Champion for 2 turns equal to 10% of their MAX HP

Valla has: Fortified Core (Cooldown: 4 turns)
Places a [Shield] buff on this Champion for 3 turns equal to 20% of their MAX HP. Also places a 60% [Increase DEF] buff on this Champion for 3 turns and fills this Champion’s Turn Meter by 50%. 

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Comments
18
Comments
Feb 11, 2021, 16:3702/11/21
12/19/19
6277

I think they are worded differently because they do different things.  The shield/heal can be based on the giver or recipient.

Feb 11, 2021, 16:5602/11/21
02/13/20
4
Trips

I think they are worded differently because they do different things.  The shield/heal can be based on the giver or recipient.

So does this mean Visix the Unboweds shield is based on the combined max hp on all the targets she attacked?

Feb 11, 2021, 17:1602/11/21
04/14/20
1343
MadCowCrazy

So does this mean Visix the Unboweds shield is based on the combined max hp on all the targets she attacked?

No, it's based on her own max HP, though you have a point that just putting 'her' instead of 'their' would have made it clearer. As Trips said, shields, like heals, can be based on either the giver's HP or the receiver's, but they're not based on the opponents' HP. There's also a few cases where the shield is based on something else, like the damage done with an ability (Miscreated Monster), the giver's defense rating (Valkyrie), etc. 

Feb 11, 2021, 17:1802/11/21
12/19/19
6277

No, I think you are overthinking it.  It could be their or this, she is the caster & target.  I have never used Visix, so I could be wrong.  Would be an enormous shield in spider for example, so easy enough to find out :)

Feb 11, 2021, 17:2002/11/21
10/13/16
91

The OP is correct.


Wording is inconsistent and can be mis-leading. I would also say that some recent new champs have very sloppy wording in some cases.


Take Iron Brago for example:

A1 - Molten Pummeling [DEF]
Attacks 1 enemy. Has a 20% chance of decreasing the duration of all buffs by 1 turn. 


Now, I would like to assume that this skill will decrease the duration of all buffs on the champ you just attacked - but it isn't clear at all. It could mean just that one champ. It could mean the whole enemy team. It could even include friendly champs - it literally does say 'all buffs' - it doesn't indicate whose buffs.

Feb 11, 2021, 17:3302/11/21
12/19/19
6277

Boo, I agree the wording is often far from perfect.  But in this case it's pretty clear.  If you attack one champ, unless otherwise stated the next part is only that champ and not all enemies.  If it was all enemies, it would state "decrease duration on all enemies".  Again, could be wrong as I haven't build Brago yet :)  

Feb 11, 2021, 18:2702/11/21
07/08/19
980

The skills all function in the same way, with the shield being based on the attacking champion's max hp. Additionally, you are a bit off in your interpretation of the skill. If it were written as you suggested, "Attack something and get a shield equal to 10% of their MAX HP", it would be read as being based off the target's max hp rather than the attacker's. However, taking a look at Visix's ability, we see that it is broken into two distinct parts (really 3, but the debuff has no bearing on this) each with their own subject and action. In the first sentence, we see the subject (all enemies) and the action (attack). Following that, the third sentence establishes a different subject (this champion), so the "their" in that sentence is assumed to apply to visix.

You are completely correct that plarium is weird and inconsistant and should standardize their terms.

Feb 11, 2021, 19:3002/11/21
10/15/20
2041

"Attacks all enemies. Has a 75% chance of placing a 30% [Decrease SPD] debuff for 2 turns. Places a [Shield] buff for 2 turns on this Champion equal to 20% of their MAX HP for 2 turns. " 

As far as I know (English is not my first language), the word "their" is a little bit unusual here, but not wrong. For example my german-english dictionary has: der Existenzgründer [what is singular!] - person [what is singular as well, otherwise persons] setting up their own business.

Feb 11, 2021, 20:1902/11/21
05/16/19
726

Agree that the wording is sometimes inconsistent. That being said though, skills in Raid run one way only because of the code, unlike a tabletop game where  different interpretations of how a skill works are bound to come up if the wording is inconsistent (hence the lawyering). 

The only wording issue I know of is the order in which buffs/debuffs are applied (e.g. Block debuff not getting applied first means you're prone to Tormin freeze, etc.) being different from how the skill is described. These inconsistencies have been fixed since. Other than that, I really don't see a significant issue with the varying "their" and "this champion" wording.

Feb 11, 2021, 20:2702/11/21
11/10/20
235

I  always  thought  it  was  more  of  a  gender  neutrality  thing,  they  dont  want  to  be  seen  to  be  assuming  gender  perhaps,  their  can  be  singular.  Otherwise  it  could  simply  be  a  performance  issue.  Text  rendering  is  onf  of  the  most  intensive  parts  of  graphics,  anything  they  can  do  to  shorten  the text  string  would  improve  performance,  save  memory.  To  be  fair  i've  never  found  it  unclear.  

Feb 11, 2021, 21:4402/11/21
06/22/19
800

To me, this is the one that confuses me. Whose max hp is it referring to? 


i


Feb 11, 2021, 21:5702/11/21
12/19/19
6277

lol, Madame Serris max hp of course.  this one is easy

Feb 12, 2021, 14:4002/12/21
02/13/20
4
Trips

lol, Madame Serris max hp of course.  this one is easy

What about this one:

Quargan the Crowned

Overgrowth: Heals all allies by 15% of their MAX HP and places a [Shield] buff equal to 15% of their MAX HP on all allies for 2 turns.


I read this that each hero gets healed by 15% of their own MAX HP and then a shield buff is placed on all allies equal to 15% of the combined health of all heroes.

Feb 12, 2021, 14:5902/12/21
12/19/19
6277

no... not sure why you keep inserting "combined". wishful thinking :)

Feb 12, 2021, 15:5902/12/21
06/22/19
800

Of course I knew its hers 🤣. But it says "their"


Now it is becoming more confusing.. "their.." what now? 😂


i


Feb 12, 2021, 19:5602/12/21
10/15/20
2041

Ok, here is obviously a mistake, but that is more a kind of typo and has nothing to do with the use of "their" in general. It should be "whenever their hp drops below 50%."

Feb 12, 2021, 20:5802/12/21
02/13/20
4
Trips

no... not sure why you keep inserting "combined". wishful thinking :)

What about the first part? Does it heal them by 15% of the casters MAX HP or every allies own MAX HP?

Quargan the Crowned

Overgrowth: Heals all allies by 15% of their MAX HP and places a [Shield] buff equal to 15% of their MAX HP on all allies for 2 turns. 


Feb 12, 2021, 21:0602/12/21
12/19/19
6277

their own max HP