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High HP vs high DEF

High HP vs high DEF

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Oct 18, 2020, 02:2310/18/20
01/14/20
112

High HP vs high DEF

What is better?  Higher HP, or higher DEF?


If you get weaken on your high HP team, or decrease defense on your high DEF team, I guess neither will make any difference?


I think the tie breaker between these 2 would be: ignore defense skills, ignore defense sets, and bombs.


I don't know of anything that can ignore HP.

Of course, champions scale off defense should go with defense, and scaling off HP should go with HP.  But, outside of those champions, is prioritizing higher defense over HP the better way to go?

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Oct 18, 2020, 05:0610/18/20
07/05/19
747

Depends, High HP would make enemy AI to avoid attacking said champions. But wouldn't matter when the enemy use AoE attacks.


And then there are poison and HP burn that would scale their damage to the max HP of the champion.


And then there's decrease max HP skill that unlike Dec Def, they cannot be cleansed (destroy set, Dark Elhain, Fire Knight), I always make sure one champ in my Arena team have this skill to fight any super healer.


So yeah, there's a couple of skills to oppose high HP champ. The best thing is I think, to have them balanced, unless you have some specific role for the champion, like the spiderlings bait that you want to have high defense and low HP.
Oct 18, 2020, 12:2310/18/20
Oct 18, 2020, 14:21(edited)
06/27/20
304

Med HP and Med Def is better than any extreme. Optimize Effective HP.

DR = DEF / (DEF+600)

EHP = HP / (1 - DR) = HP * (DEF + 600) / 600

Unfortunately, another source says the constant is 1500, not 600, and I don't know which one is correct.


Def is worse because it can be lowered and ignored.

Def is much better if you have heals or shields not based on healed champion's HP, like Vrask in a team.

Oct 18, 2020, 16:0510/18/20
01/14/20
112

The problem I see is those defense based champions that are stacked with defense, and gets killed with 1 shot by a champion that ignores defense.


Destroy, Poison, HP burn, and scale off HP, do not instantly kill off a HP champion and therefore still in the game.


Med HP and med def should be better, and I think maybe leaning toward higher HP will be something I might try for the future.  Really no point in creating a wall of defense which can be easily ignored.
Oct 18, 2020, 20:4610/18/20
Oct 18, 2020, 20:47(edited)
10/08/17
1067

when you do the math per  hit over and over. Def wins hands  down for the  long fight

But remember % is better than straight up stat in either ;)
Oct 18, 2020, 22:0410/18/20
12/19/19
6269
PriestGuardian said:

when you do the math per  hit over and over. Def wins hands  down for the  long fight

But remember % is better than straight up stat in either ;)
I would say def% is generally better than hp%. I never go hp% on both guant and chest but often double up on def%
Oct 19, 2020, 01:1510/19/20
07/05/19
747

T3 God said:


The problem I see is those defense based champions that are stacked with defense, and gets killed with 1 shot by a champion that ignores defense.


Destroy, Poison, HP burn, and scale off HP, do not instantly kill off a HP champion and therefore still in the game.


Med HP and med def should be better, and I think maybe leaning toward higher HP will be something I might try for the future.  Really no point in creating a wall of defense which can be easily ignored.

still having high HP without the defense is like having a fortress without a wal... it would still be easily penetrated.

if you're worried about dec def, there are ways to protect you from it, like high resistance, immunity set, deflection set, support heroes with block debuffs, support heroes with remove debuffs, there's a lot of options.

As for ignore defense, it's actually very rare for any champs that have 100% ignore defense, and having running a high defense hero since early game (I use Jizoh heavily from start and still haven't replace him in Arena) I have to say, it's not actually that easy to bypass his defense, there are those who can (obviously) but they're either invest heavily in accuracy or just plain able to put out crazy damage in which those can destroy any high HP heroes anyway.


I honestly still thinks, balanced HP, defense, AND resistance is key.

Oct 19, 2020, 01:4610/19/20
Oct 19, 2020, 01:49(edited)
07/31/20
373

I think it's 3 months ago, maybe more or less, I still thought that way, it's a big F ing strategy, I used to complain in Announcement about that. 

Defend ? Better defend ? LMAO, this bs game does not let you do it. When you let your enemy go first and attack, it's 100% lose (*), no matter you have better defend, super defend, super hp, super hp+defend. 


If I add hp, it's hp for ATTACK.

If I add def, it's def for ATTACK.

Everything I do is for ATTACK and STRONGER ATTACK.



P/S: (*) you could win when your enemy is another you. 
Oct 19, 2020, 02:3710/19/20
01/14/20
112

Indent14 said:


I think it's 3 months ago, maybe more or less, I still thought that way, it's a big F ing strategy, I used to complain in Announcement about that. 

Defend ? Better defend ? LMAO, this bs game does not let you do it. When you let your enemy go first and attack, it's 100% lose (*), no matter you have better defend, super defend, super hp, super hp+defend. 


If I add hp, it's hp for ATTACK.

If I add def, it's def for ATTACK.

Everything I do is for ATTACK and STRONGER ATTACK.



P/S: (*) you could win when your enemy is another you. 

Assuming you got your strongest attack stats already, then there are these 2 extra stats available to round out your gears, would you consider extra defense or extra HP?  Or like you said, it doesn't matter because go first wins?  

For high level player like you, it might be correct, but for low life players like me, not all my opponents are killing me off simply because they went first.


Oct 19, 2020, 04:1910/19/20
Oct 19, 2020, 04:28(edited)
07/31/20
373

T3 God said:


Indent14 said:


I think it's 3 months ago, maybe more or less, I still thought that way, it's a big F ing strategy, I used to complain in Announcement about that. 

Defend ? Better defend ? LMAO, this bs game does not let you do it. When you let your enemy go first and attack, it's 100% lose (*), no matter you have better defend, super defend, super hp, super hp+defend. 


If I add hp, it's hp for ATTACK.

If I add def, it's def for ATTACK.

Everything I do is for ATTACK and STRONGER ATTACK.



P/S: (*) you could win when your enemy is another you. 

Assuming you got your strongest attack stats already, then there are these 2 extra stats available to round out your gears, would you consider extra defense or extra HP?  Or like you said, it doesn't matter because go first wins?  

For high level player like you, it might be correct, but for low life players like me, not all my opponents are killing me off simply because they went first.




It's was if, means higher priority. 


Let say you want to build a strong arena team against strong players (in case you need it), high priority stats would be: speed, crit%, crit damage, accuracy; lower priority stats would be: hp, atk, def, resist. 


When you build a damage dealer champ: first you must care is 100% crit rate (*) + higher crit damage; now take a look at his/her (attack) skills, if it's [HP] base, you add more hp%, hp; [ATK] = more atk%, atk; [DEF] base= more def%, def. Resist is nice to have since you only want to kill not be killed. 


 

(*) build crit rate much as you could.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Taz5Fq-WzM


The hard part is to build 100% crit rate + high crit damage, all 6 gears must have both of these stats. It means those low priority stats are extra stats already, you should not build 3 extra stats like you thought. 

Oct 19, 2020, 04:4210/19/20
07/31/20
373

The reason go first win is because debuff skill is too powerful. Every "strong" player build 1 very fast and very high accuracy champ, let say 270 - 300 speed + 350 - 450 acc and they cast "true fear", "freeze", "block skills", "provoke", "stun", after that is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4y_acTR0MY&feature=youtu.be&t=17



Oct 20, 2020, 20:1910/20/20
05/13/19
2326

High HP vs. High DEF isn't really an accurate comparison because it all depends on the hero + situation.


High HP & High DEF are both very good for difference reason's.

High HP is good for absorbing damage.

High DEF is good for mitigating damage.