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Strategy for Nightmare CB - How to play my box ?

Strategy for Nightmare CB - How to play my box ?

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Sep 23, 2020, 22:5709/23/20
11/14/19
49

Strategy for Nightmare CB - How to play my box ?

Hello guys ! 


I start to feel a bit stuck to advance on NM boss for months now. Especially because I'm not getting any top tier for CB (I think ?).

So I post here my box and do not hesitate to give me advice of what you would line up in my place !







I also own most of non void rare (store in chamber).


Here is one of my best run on NM (my best is around 14M, it's just about RNG).




I already tried some speed tune team with mausoleum but it was mess up because I was using Scylk for consistent healing.


I don't know if you have any idea since I have no champion with unkillable, block damage or counter attack. So I have to play around as much buff/debuff and ally protect to survive.


Any though ?


Thanks guys !

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551
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Sep 24, 2020, 06:2509/24/20
Sep 24, 2020, 06:26(edited)
05/13/19
2326

I got a set up for you to try.

I don't know how good it will be.


However, It might be interesting testing it out?

You do have all the heroes leveled up from what I can see.



The set up I am thinking about is:

- Tayrel

- Rhazin

- Frozen Banshee

- Catacomb Councilor

- Apothecary



I have no idea how much damage it can do.

I just remember people trying something similar out back in the day.


Sep 24, 2020, 07:1409/24/20
04/13/20
313

Another possible setup:


- Venus (posion, HP burn, Decrease Defence) - +33% HP Aura lead

- Gorgorab (AoE revive/heal, turn meter boost)

- Lightsworn (Increase Defence, AoE revive on death, hits hard, Decrease Attack)

- Frozen Banshee (poison)

- Apothecary (single target healing, turn meter boost, Increase Speed)

Sep 24, 2020, 07:2409/24/20
Sep 24, 2020, 07:57(edited)
11/14/19
49

@Player J: This is an interesting way of thinking. I tought that for brutal and higher, flat damage was not that good and you should go for % HP damages (masteries, poison, hp burn). In what you propose it's more oriented to more damage with weaken and Razhin + Tayrel who hits hard. 

But I'm wondering about Cat. Concilor in the comp. It sure allow more poison and damage every 4 turns. But the rest of his kit is quiet weak for CB. Isn't it better to have an heroe like Lightsworn or mausoleum mage to increase def ? Which will indirectly give more damage to Tayrel and Rzhin and more survivability ?

I'll think of it but unfortunately Razhin and Tayrel do not have appropriate gear atm and no masteries, so I'll have to wait to test this comp.





@Watchdogcz: I don't have Venus. You might be mistaken with Zavia ? She is great but she is burning all poison for low damage. I could replace with Cupidus for HP burn and high flat damage. But if I do that I'll have +33 ATK aura lead.



Sep 24, 2020, 07:5609/24/20
04/13/20
313

quent155 said:


@Watchdogcz: I don't have Venus. You might be mistaken with Zavia ? She is great but she is burning all poison for low damage. I could replace with Cupidus for HP burn and high flat damage. But if I do that I'll have +33 ATK aura lead.

Oh, my mistake. I misclicked while going through Legendaries. It is Zavia, not Venus, damn it.


Nevermind. Lets try this, then:


- Cupidus (Increase Attack, HP Burn) - +33% Increase Attack Aura lead (for all except Lightsworn)

- Gorgorab (AoE revive/heal, turn meter boost) 

- Lightsworn (Increase Defence, AoE revive on death, hits hard, Decrease Attack) 

- Frozen Banshee (poison)

- Apothecary (single target healing, turn meter boost, Increase Speed)


You should be able to survive for a while with the revivers. Gorgorab may need some extra HP and Defence to survive, though.

Sep 24, 2020, 08:0009/24/20
Sep 24, 2020, 08:07(edited)
11/14/19
49

I just tried with Gorga and Cupidus. I lost between 3-6 turns of dps resulting in 6M damage. Rearguard is providing more heal then gorgo and in addition a decrease def and ally protection. In the new set up Gorgo gets one shoot with the rest of the team and cannot heal. :(


It is also possible that Gorga need more survivability (he is currently 50k HP for 2k2 defense). But I'm afraid that just after rez the team get OS again (and also if rez is not up since he uses it for heal in auto, he will probably die the round after).

Sep 24, 2020, 09:2409/24/20
12/19/19
6

to me few champions are a obvious choice.

Tayrel as lead + decr attack

Rhazin for decr. deff + weaken

Frozen Banshee for poisen


then 2 more for survival: 

- apothecary for speed and heal 

- mausoleum mage for incr def and block debuff on 3 turn cooldown


I run a "similar" setup for UNM and do around 30 million per key with the top 3 being the same but vizier making the big difference.

However if you stay alive long enough (with 3.5-4.5k def, enough speed, 40k HP, lifesteal gear, ...) this can 3-4 key UNM eventually.
Sep 24, 2020, 17:5109/24/20
05/16/19
726
Player J said:

I got a set up for you to try.

I don't know how good it will be.


However, It might be interesting testing it out?

You do have all the heroes leveled up from what I can see.



The set up I am thinking about is:

- Tayrel

- Rhazin

- Frozen Banshee

- Catacomb Councilor

- Apothecary



I have no idea how much damage it can do.

I just remember people trying something similar out back in the day.


This is the one i'd be going with imo. With decent gear I bet this could 2 key at least. 
Sep 24, 2020, 18:2409/24/20
12/19/19
6267
I like Tayrel Rhazin Banshee Mage and not sure who 4 the 5th.... Also, I would speed tune for UNM as once you can do NM you can do UNM which has better chests even at level 1 and 2.
Sep 24, 2020, 21:0609/24/20
Sep 24, 2020, 21:26(edited)
11/14/19
49

Mhmmm I swap my ls gear from rearguard to Tayrel and went from 10-13M to 8-10M/key :( If I use M. mage or Apo, I do not have enough heal and either Lightsworn or the heal die.


I probably not have appropriate gear/stats but I'm not sure what to aim for. I fell like I'm not tanking enough at the moment. Here is a few stats (always life, def, acc, gear, speed);


Rhazin: 34K, 3k3, 174 (not life steal gear available for him), 174

Lightsworn: 44K, 2K9, 167 (no life steal), 170

M. Mage: 48k, 2k2 (no life steal), 173

Tayrel: 35k5, 3k4, 196 (life steal gear), 135

Frozen Banshee: 37K, 2K, 274 (life steal gear), 171

Apo: 36k, 3k1 (no life steal), 207


I don't know if I'm investing too much in a stat or another (or not enough), I know my acc should be higher for some champ but I need to do with what I have :/ If you have any suggestion, cap,... I take it :/








Sep 24, 2020, 21:2009/24/20
12/19/19
6267
what is speed for all?
Sep 24, 2020, 21:2709/24/20
11/14/19
49
I updated. I speed tune to add M. Mage et deny stun some times ago but I change a lot of things in the past few days so it is not anymore.
Sep 24, 2020, 21:4809/24/20
12/19/19
6267
Tayrel is useless at that speed
Sep 24, 2020, 21:5509/24/20
04/14/20
1343

This may be a stupid question but just to check: all champions you're using have warmaster/giantslayer, yes? Otherwise obviously you're missing out on significant damage numbers from that on some of your teams. 


274 acc on FB might be overkill, whereas her defense could be higher, maybe try to rebalance that a bit and use some of the accuracy gear to push others above 200? 

Sep 24, 2020, 22:1909/24/20
11/14/19
49

Trips said:


Tayrel is useless at that speed

Which speed to aim for ? around 170 ? What would be the minimal stats you advice for him ? Because I can trade a few stats but it's never easy to decide which one. For instance I play him with gloves % HP as main stat because of his low base HP. I could trade 6K HP for 600Def (and more speed) if I go for %def gloves.


@L9753, yes of course :p But you are right to ask ! Only Rhazim isn't but it's on the way. For FB, I just got acc banner, I'm looking to change her chest which is ACC main stat (+80)
Sep 24, 2020, 22:4109/24/20
Sep 24, 2020, 22:45(edited)
05/13/19
2326

quent155 said:


@Player J: This is an interesting way of thinking. I tought that for brutal and higher, flat damage was not that good and you should go for % HP damages (masteries, poison, hp burn). In what you propose it's more oriented to more damage with weaken and Razhin + Tayrel who hits hard. 

But I'm wondering about Cat. Concilor in the comp. It sure allow more poison and damage every 4 turns. But the rest of his kit is quiet weak for CB. Isn't it better to have an heroe like Lightsworn or mausoleum mage to increase def ? Which will indirectly give more damage to Tayrel and Rzhin and more survivability ?

I'll think of it but unfortunately Razhin and Tayrel do not have appropriate gear atm and no masteries, so I'll have to wait to test this comp.


I'm not sure what Flat Damage your talking about.

The set up I gave you was the following: 

- Tayrel -----------------------------> Atk Down

- Rhazin ---------------------------> Def Down + Weaken

- Frozen Banshee --------------> Poison 

- Catacomb Councilor ---------> Rally

- Apothecary ---------------------> Turn Meter + Speed Buff



I am suggesting Catacomb C. because he can help your heroes do more mastery proc's.

He rallies in with your heroes.

He can help Rhazin do more Giant Slayer Proc's (A1 move is 3 hit).



You already had Frozen B. in your set up.

Frozen B. can do Poison.

The rally can help her as well because her A1 does poison.



The only thing which the set up doesn't have is HP Burn, but its ok.

You don't really need to have HP Burn.

You should do enough damage with out.



The idea to use a Rally champion in your Clan Boss team is an old school idea.

The Players who didn't have a counter attack hero would use a Rally hero.



Counter Attack set ups try to go slow & speed tune.

Ideally, they want to go 1 time for every 1 time the Boss goes.

Counter Attack set ups use heroes with A1 moves which have Debuffs or Muli-hit.



Rally set ups do the opposite to Counter Attack set ups.

Rally set ups try to go fast & speed lap the Boss.

Ideally, they want to go 2 times for every 1 time the Boss goes.

Rally set ups use heroes with A1 moves which have Debuffs or Multi-hit.



These 2 set ups where considered the best Clan Boss set ups before Unkillable/Block Damage teams were created.

You would either go slow or fast.



The game had 2 Counter Attack heroes at the time (Martyr & Skullcrusher)

Valkyrie was in the game at that time, but her Counter Attack cool down was on a 4 turn Cycle.

Players considered her bad because she wouldn't stay in rotation.



The game had 1 Rally hero at the time (Longbeard).

Longbeard was a very desirable champion.





Obviously, everything I am saying is from a long time ago.

The game has reduced Valkyries Cool Down.

The game has added more Rally heroes into the game.

You do own 2 different Rally heroes (Catacomb C. & Kreela)

I just recommended for you to try Catacomb because he is already level 60 on your account.



Also the set up I am telling you needs everyone in Lifesteal gear.

The goal is to have them do Warmaster or Giant Slayer Procs from there Masteries.


If they are wearing Lifesteal gear, They will do a full heal!

This means they will keep themselves alive by attacking.



If you don't have enough LIfesteal gear to put on all of these heroes, The set up I am telling you will not work.

The reason it will not work is because you will need to add in a hero who does a Team Heal.

The term we call this is a "Dedicated Healer".





Also, Apothecary isn't a healer!

Players get confused about what Apothecary Job is in Clan Boss.

They see him with a Heal on his skills so they immediately think he is there "Dedicated Healer"



Apothecary main job in the set up is to increase your teams over all speed.

Apothecary is put into the set up to try and help your team move 2 turns for every 1 turn the Clan Boss does.

You would need someone else to be your "Dedicated Healer" or you need to farm more LifeSteal gear.
Sep 25, 2020, 16:3609/25/20
11/14/19
49

Thank you for the claryfication ! 


I consider him as a side healer. His heal is quiet low in comparison of continuous healing on a whole team. But still it helps. If he has no (or low) heal, I would rather go for High Katun who has better damage for the same speed boost.


I'm going to have the team you mention in full life steal gear (now every member of this team is with a LS gear except for Apo). I finish to up masteries and I will test it. The stuff is far from perfect at the moment but I'll improve.



I ask again about Tayrel because he will be my main for dungeon and clan boss. What would you suggest for his minimal stats ? I improved a bit since yesterday:

HP : 39K

DEF : 3K6

SPD: 145

Crit; rate: 45%

Crit damage: 101%

ACC: 180


Because for instance I play him with gloves % HP as main stat because of his low base HP. I could trade 6K HP for 600Def (and more speed) if I go for %def gloves. I mainly try to go for DEF, HP, ACC and speed. But with my available stuff if I want to increase a stat, I'll have to trade for another one. So what would you consider as minimal stats for him ?

Sep 26, 2020, 13:1409/26/20
Sep 26, 2020, 14:21(edited)
11/14/19
49

Any advices ?


The set up I gave you was the following:

- Tayrel -----------------------------> Atk Down

- Rhazin ---------------------------> Def Down + Weaken

- Frozen Banshee --------------> Poison

- Catacomb Councilor ---------> Rally

- Apothecary ---------------------> Turn Meter + Speed Buff

And what do you think of Drogkul to replace cat. conc. ?

He would provide the same effect as rally + heal + increase def + shield (I need to up him 6/60 but I think he is worth no ?)

Sep 26, 2020, 14:2009/26/20
12/19/19
6267
Again, speed is way too low
Sep 26, 2020, 14:2309/26/20
12/19/19
6267
atk down is most important debuff, tayrel needs to be faster than mage and acc 200+, def more important than cr cd
Sep 26, 2020, 21:5809/26/20
11/14/19
49

I agree. Unfortunately I cannot increase ACC and SPD without decreasing another stats. It's why I was asking which one I could lower with my current stats. 


Also Regarding this set up:



Player J said:


I'm not sure what Flat Damage your talking about.

The set up I gave you was the following: 

- Tayrel -----------------------------> Atk Down

- Rhazin ---------------------------> Def Down + Weaken

- Frozen Banshee --------------> Poison 

- Catacomb Councilor ---------> Rally

- Apothecary ---------------------> Turn Meter + Speed Buff



What do you think of Drogkul (the new shard leg) to replace cat. conc. ?

He would provide the same effect as rally (with the counter attack) + heal + increase def + shield (I need to up him 6/60 but I think he is worth no ?)