Ok, so I posted this before and removed it because it detracted from the OPs original subject. So here it is again.
Can someone please explain how Tormin's freeze DEBUFF kicking in after BLOCK DEBUFF is received not a bug?
Or the logic of having Dark Elhain, who's ability activates "Instantly" whenever she is frozen, to remove the "Freeze", still gets frozen?
It depends on the order of how BLOCK DEBUFF is placed on a champions Tool Tip.
For Example:
A hero can do BLOCK DEBUFF BUFF + NCREASE ATK BUFF
If the Increase Atk Buff is placed before the Block Debuff Buff on the hero, Your hero can be Frozen.
The game has a Tool Tip which puts the buffs on in a specific order.
Tormin can't freeze on or though BLOCK DEBUFF BUFF.
Tormin can freeze every other Buff.
And the Buff which your hero puts on first matters.Here is a picture of Dark Elhain Skill.
I think your talking about the below skill:
---> Tormin Passive - Freezes Dark Elhain.
---> Dark Elhain Passive - Instantly removes the Freeze
---> Dark Elhain Passive - Puts up 3 New Buffs
---> The 3 New Buffs which get put on are Increase C.DMG - Increase C.RATE - Strengthen
---> Tormin Passive - Triggers Again - Freezes Dark Elhain due to 1 of the New 3 Buffs
---> Dark Elhain Passive - Is on 1 Turn Cool Down
---> Dark Elhain remains Frozen at this point.
And that is what your seeing.
yeah thats pretty BS.
how is he not getting nerfed?
one of the extremely few places Dark Elhain has any value at all and they still rendered her essentially worthless by having the hard counter get hard countered.
Player J said:
It depends on the order of how BLOCK DEBUFF is placed on a champions Tool Tip.
For Example:
A hero can do BLOCK DEBUFF BUFF + NCREASE ATK BUFF
If the Increase Atk Buff is placed before the Block Debuff Buff on the hero, Your hero can be Frozen.
The game has a Tool Tip which puts the buffs on in a specific order.
Tormin can't freeze on or though BLOCK DEBUFF BUFF.
Tormin can freeze every other Buff.
And the Buff which your hero puts on first matters.Here is a picture of Dark Elhain Skill.
I think your talking about the below skill:
---> Tormin Passive - Freezes Dark Elhain.
---> Dark Elhain Passive - Instantly removes the Freeze
---> Dark Elhain Passive - Puts up 3 New Buffs
---> The 3 New Buffs which get put on are Increase C.DMG - Increase C.RATE - Strengthen
---> Tormin Passive - Triggers Again - Freezes Dark Elhain due to 1 of the New 3 Buffs
---> Dark Elhain Passive - Is on 1 Turn Cool Down
---> Dark Elhain remains Frozen at this point.
And that is what your seeing.
I did read the skill text and considered posting it as well.
The text states "Instantly removes ... whenever ..."
Why does it not repeat and "Instantly" remove the freeze debuff again?
Both Dark Elhain and Tormin both have cooldowns, her cooldown is she shortest possible, a 1 turn cooldown, I believe Tormin's is 7.
If the cooldown is what prevents her from repeating her passive, why does that same logic not apply to Tormin?
NickFrost said
I did read the skill text and considered posting it as well.
The text states "Instantly removes ... whenever ..."
Why does it not repeat and "Instantly" remove the freeze debuff again?
Both Dark Elhain and Tormin both have cooldowns, her cooldown is she shortest possible, a 1 turn cooldown, I believe Tormin's is 7.
If the cooldown is what prevents her from repeating her passive, why does that same logic not apply to Tormin?
If you tak a look on Dark Elhain's skill box on the top right corner there's a circled arrow symbol and the number 1, that indicates that the skill has a 1 turn cooldown.
If you go to Tormin, afaik there's no such symbol (I don't have Tormin, please anyone that have, to confirm this), hence Tormin can do it over and over again against multiple opponents buff, while Elhain can only do once in her turn.
What should be done I think is to change how Dark Elhain passive works, that the freeze removal is at the end of the sequence of the buff
> Tormin Freeze Dark Elhain
> Dark Elhain get's the extra buff
> Tormin cannot freeze Elhain again since Elhain is already frozen
> Then Elhain removed the freeze debuff.
Tormin's cooldown refers only to the other part of his passive - the automatic revive. The fact that Dark Elhain's skill has a 1 turn cooldown does indeed drastically reduce her usefulness against Tormin - then again, if it didn't, you could get stuck in loops. Ozzlee's suggestion seems better to avoid that.I did read the skill text and considered posting it as well.
The text states "Instantly removes ... whenever ..."
Why does it not repeat and "Instantly" remove the freeze debuff again?
Both Dark Elhain and Tormin both have cooldowns, her cooldown is she shortest possible, a 1 turn cooldown, I believe Tormin's is 7.
If the cooldown is what prevents her from repeating her passive, why does that same logic not apply to Tormin?
Mauseleum Mage puts Block debuff first but can still gets frozen by Tormin's passive.He puts the other buff before the block debuff, so he/they get frozen.
I see my error(s) now, lastly, I hadn't noticed Tormin's cooldown applied only to the active portion of his passive.
Thank you all.
A few different people commented: Here is the answers to what they said
@MAYANEEDSДIK:
Tormin did get nerfed - Yesterday in the new update
@JOINME:
Valdys is correct - It isn't the wording of the text
It's the behind the scenes tool tip which places the buffs on the heroes in a specific order.
The game has it worded Block Debuff Buff first, but the tool tip isn't doing it first.
Yeah - the game has been slowly fixing those things behind the scene's though.
@NickFrost:
OzzLee is correct - Tormin has 2 different Passive effects.
1 Effect is Continuous (No Cool Down) ---> Freezing Effect
1 Effect is Active (Cool Down) ---------------> Revive when he dies Effect
