Exercise in futility - Why Arena Progress Mission is a bad game design

lee.ozz.0213

Jun 23, 2020, 05:3206/23/20

06/16/20

Exercise in futility - Why Arena Progress Mission is a bad game design

I get it, "just git gud you pleb!"

Well yeah, I want to "git gud" that's why I follow the progress missions.

On any other type of games these kind of progress mission serve to teach new players a road map on how to git gud on the game, that's why they usually have a short waypoint from one achievement to another, and when the achievement point suddenly gets too far it gets confusing for new players, in a F2P mobile game like Raid, it could even be considered as a PAYWALL.

In the case of Raid, Arena missions are exactly that frustrating waypoint in the road map to "git fud", STARTING from the "achieve Silver I" mission, that one waypoint that is just WAAAAAAAAAY too far to reach from the previous waypoint.

Imagine your father teaching you how to ride a bicycle

Mission 1: identify which of this vehicle is a bicycle

Mission 2: learn to paddle this bicycle with side wheels

Mission 3: ride the bicycle without side wheels

Mission 4: place at least top 20 in tour de France

Mission 5: take your father for a ride on your bicycle

You see how ridiculous that mission 4 is? That's why the arena missions starting from get to silver I in arena is so frustrating, there needs to be more waypoint in the missions before you have to get toe to toe with ENDGAME PLAYERS! Yes even bronze III is an endgame content because there's just too many fully upgraded legendaries in that tier to even be a midgame content

So yeah, this is another illustration on why the progress missions need a rework.

My suggestion is to put ALL of the Arena Progress Mission at the VERY END of the progress mission line up, because that's what Arena is, an end-game content and it should be put as it is, AT THE END.

UNLESS you do intend to put those missions as PAYWALL

Comments

Spyder73

Jun 23, 2020, 05:4306/23/20

07/17/19

Raid is not free to play and getting high in arena is easily done if you build a team with good artifacts. If you want to get in gold 4, farm dragon

lee.ozz.0213

Jun 23, 2020, 05:5006/23/20

Jun 23, 2020, 05:52(edited)

06/16/20

Spyder73 said:

Raid is not free to play and getting high in arena is easily done if you build a team with good artifacts. If you want to get in gold 4, farm dragon

That's the problem buddy! The missions NEED to point that out!

Before getting to that silver I mission it needs to be pointed out to get 6* artifacts!

And to get to 6* artifacts the missions need to point out what level of dungeons where you can get those artifacts.

THAT is my entire problem, from clearing "SPIDER 3" to "Get to Silver I" is too big of a gap!

And if not for the mission, I am actually quite content being in Bronze II, I don't really care for PvP and even for the daily achievement I usually just auto the 5x PvP and just want to get over it quickly

And as for that "Raid is not F2P" then you agree that the mission is a paywall.

bercik06

Jun 23, 2020, 11:0906/23/20

04/15/20

Spyder73 said:

Raid is not free to play and getting high in arena is easily done if you build a team with good artifacts. If you want to get in gold 4, farm dragon

Mission about a farming dragon (or any other dungeon) on auto is later - so no, he will not learn to do this until new player gets to that point.

cherubin31

Jun 23, 2020, 12:3506/23/20

Jun 23, 2020, 12:36(edited)

05/26/20

Spyder73 said:

Raid is not free to play and getting high in arena is easily done if you build a team with good artifacts. If you want to get in gold 4, farm dragon

I agree with the fact that raid is no free to play, but it's fair because there is one letter too many, yes one letter too many, can you find it?

L9753

Jun 23, 2020, 16:4006/23/20

04/14/20

1343

Ozz0213 said:

So yeah, this is another illustration on why the progress missions need a rework.
My suggestion is to put ALL of the Arena Progress Mission at the VERY END of the progress mission line up, because that's what Arena is, an end-game content and it should be put as it is, AT THE END.

The problem with this suggestion is that you need progress in arena before you can get to end-game - the Great Hall bonuses. The 80 accuracy bonus you can get for having your Great Hall maxed for a particular affinity, and to a lesser extent the other bonuses, make a huge difference in what you can do in endgame dungeons/clan boss. So in that sense it's right that the progress missions force you to put effort into arena and start getting those medals that you need for GH upgrades. But yeah, it was already seriously out of sync when I was in bronze/low silver a few months ago on my main, and since then it's gotten a lot worse (also have an alt now, in bronze 3). You still need those silver and gold medals for endgame content but you need to be significantly further into mid-game before you can start farming silver medals, never mind gold.

The truly inactive accounts should disappear from the arena soon automatically, even if Plarium doesn't take any further steps. But the fundamental problem of arena becoming harder over time for new players, as the average player becomes stronger and stronger, isn't going away. And because of the medal system, that's a problem, regardless of any potential adjustments to the progress missions.

SCArmoury

Jun 23, 2020, 17:5206/23/20

05/29/20

The "Reach Silver 1 in Classic arena" Mission is obviously (to everyone) not scaled correctly. To argue against it, either by pointing out that this game isn't free to play or that arena teams need a lot of work and consideration (though very true), seems extremely odd and irrelevant to me.

It would do no harm to anyone if this mission was altered or removed from the queue. Whether you're free to play or have just sold your fancy car for some shards to pull. From what I've been reading, we are all talking in circles. No one is really incorrect, but there is an obvious solution. And one that would be both a huge benefit to new players and completely inconsequential everyone else.

lolcatz

Jun 24, 2020, 00:3606/24/20

04/24/20

Just wait until you get to the "upgrade a guild hall bonus to rank 4" mission.

And after you spend a month+ grinding that out, let it sink in that you'll complete the next 10 PvE missions in a day or two and be faced with "upgrade a SECOND guild hall bonus to rank 4".

It's a joke, and sadly the moderators and most forum regulars here will look down on you with contempt and tell you that it's balanced and you need to get.... well you know what they'll say.

lee.ozz.0213

Jun 24, 2020, 15:0506/24/20

Jun 24, 2020, 15:08(edited)

06/16/20

The simple thing is this, I don't want easy wins for PvP, I just want to be fairly matched to people around my level of experience in PvP.

You really think it's fun to regularly be matxhed against teams of fully upgraded legendaries in bronze III? Hate to imagine what gold looks like!

So if fixing matchmaking is simply too hard, remove ALL of the arena missions, including ones where you have to build the hall.

Or just put them all in the very end of the progress mission line up, because end game content should be put at the end of the progress missions

SCArmoury

Jun 24, 2020, 16:0206/24/20

05/29/20

lolcatz said:

Just wait until you get to the "upgrade a guild hall bonus to rank 4" mission.
And after you spend a month+ grinding that out, let it sink in that you'll complete the next 10 PvE missions in a day or two and be faced with "upgrade a SECOND guild hall bonus to rank 4".

It's a joke, and sadly the moderators and most forum regulars here will look down on you with contempt and tell you that it's balanced and you need to get.... well you know what they'll say.

Great, something to look forward to! ;-)

Let me guess the missions directly following it:

"Ascend a 3* Champion one time"

"Clear stage 3 or higher of the Minotaur's Labyrinth"

"Get 2 Champions to Rank 4"

SCArmoury

Jun 24, 2020, 16:5506/24/20

05/29/20

And they will never let you forget...

Bouncy Bouncy Shimmer Shimmer

There's Missions in this game?

lolcatz

Jun 24, 2020, 22:1206/24/20

Jun 24, 2020, 22:16(edited)

04/24/20

SCArmoury said:

lolcatz said:

Just wait until you get to the "upgrade a guild hall bonus to rank 4" mission.
And after you spend a month+ grinding that out, let it sink in that you'll complete the next 10 PvE missions in a day or two and be faced with "upgrade a SECOND guild hall bonus to rank 4".

It's a joke, and sadly the moderators and most forum regulars here will look down on you with contempt and tell you that it's balanced and you need to get.... well you know what they'll say.
Great, something to look forward to! ;-)

Let me guess the missions directly following it:
"Ascend a 3* Champion one time"
"Clear stage 3 or higher of the Minotaur's Labyrinth"
"Get 2 Champions to Rank 4"

LOL I know you're kind of sarcastically tongue-in-cheek joking... but you're pretty much dead on.

Here is the actual progress mission progression

"upgrade a great hall bonus to level 4" Easily takes a month, probably more

"unlock a tier 3 mastery on a champion" You've already completed this by the time it unlocks

"earn 3 stars on stage 7 of chapter 8 hard" Takes 30 seconds, probably already complete

"win 5 greater spirit potions from stage 7 or higher of the spirit keep" Might have to wait for unlock, takes 1-30 minutes

"clear sage 7 of chapter 9 on hard" Takes 30 seconds, definitely already complete

"ascend a champion to rank 5" Takes like 3-4 energy refills, or maybe 30 seconds if you've prepared for it.

"upgrade any artifact to level 16" Takes 1-5 minutes and 750k-1.5mil gold.

"earn 3 stars on stage 7 of chapter 9 on hard" Takes 30 seconds, probably already complete

"win 5 greater force potions from stage 7 or higher of the force keep" Might have to wait for unlock, takes 1-30 minutes.

"clear stage 7 of chapter 10 on hard" Takes 30 seconds, definitely already complete

"win 5 greater void potions from stage 7 or higher of the void keep" Might have to wait for unlock, takes 1-30 minutes.

"upgrade a SECOND great hall bonus to level 4" Easily takes a month, probably more

Balanced.... riiiiiiiiiiight

lolcatz

Jun 28, 2020, 13:4706/28/20

04/24/20

Aaaaand I've finally finished the first great hall level 4 progress mission.

It took me FIVE WEEKS, and now I'm staring down the barrel of "upgrade a second great hall bonus to level 4" after I spend the week waiting for potion keeps to unlock. Every other mission will basically be instant complete.

My arena team has only marginally improved during that time. Gear only, have not gotten any better arena heroes.

I'm still only able to consistently maintain Silver I while dipping into Silver II on occasion.

These missions need reworked, and badly.

They are, without question, causing new players significant frustration and impacting Plariums new player retention.

F0rest

Jun 28, 2020, 14:1506/28/20

11/14/19

Exact same thing I discussed in another tread some months ago.https://plarium.com/forum/en/raid-shadow-legends/674_game-discussion/195719_adapting--arena-mission-difficulties-to-pve-missions-difficulties/

They never took in account that the game evolved with the time and number of player. Maybe those missions made sense a year or more ago when having 4 champs 50 et an ok stuff was enough.

Now you are playing in silver vs level 60+ with a lot of way too farm good gears, a good box, full masteries.... And for a level 40 that is not able yet to farm high level dungeon and have a limited box is just screw.

nicmercy

Jun 28, 2020, 16:2106/28/20

11/12/19

Ozz0213 said:

Hate to imagine what gold looks like!

it looks like this:

And that's on a good day...

downonluck

Jun 29, 2020, 01:5006/29/20

Jun 29, 2020, 01:54(edited)

05/13/20

The mission orders are laughable. How is it "Get to Silver Rank Arena" goes before "Clear Stage 3 Fireknight" and "beating Campaign Hard"

Get to Silver Rank Arena should be like near end game mission. Why? because you fight nothing but bunch of people level 60 Power 80,000.

Either Arena is broken or Developers don't play this game, or both.