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Live Arena: Fair & Balanced

Live Arena: Fair & Balanced

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Jan 11, 2025, 23:2301/11/25
12/08/14
4

Live Arena: Fair & Balanced


i

By Showing the Team Power of both teams and giving us a chance to Refuse or Accept a battle there will be fewer matches against teams that are 2,3,4 even 5 times or more stronger.  The more evenly matched the teams are, the more fun it is to join Live Arena.  Right now leaving an unwinnable match counts as a loss.  Refusing a match should not count as a loss since no battle was engaged.  If matches are based on Account lvl then the chances of an evenly matched battle increases and the number of matches refused will go down. 100 vs 100 etc.

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124
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dthorne04Moderator
Jan 12, 2025, 00:0001/12/25
12/30/20
6538

While you're def gonna run into rough matchups, a few things off the top of my head:

1) team power is largely irrelevant

2) refuse/accept would be an absolute nightmare. whatever complaints you see about live arena missions would go up exponentially because the vast majority of vocal players i've run into don't really want a challenge from arena but would much prefer the one to be hitting the pinata and not vice versa. I shudder to think what the rate would be for accept. 

Jan 12, 2025, 00:4101/12/25
12/07/20
143


i

that was my welcome to G4, think i may of refused that fight!!

Jan 12, 2025, 05:4701/12/25
01/31/20
1155
dax


i

that was my welcome to G4, think i may of refused that fight!!

I feel ya!

First time I hit G4:

i

Second time I hit G4 (I mean G$):

i

I had 4-5 days of these crazy match-ups before I was able to get any traction.

The icing on the turd, of course, was matching against the #1 player in my first 4 attempts to win a G4 match:

i

You can't make this stuff up.

Jan 12, 2025, 06:0001/12/25
01/31/20
1155
dthorne04

While you're def gonna run into rough matchups, a few things off the top of my head:

1) team power is largely irrelevant

2) refuse/accept would be an absolute nightmare. whatever complaints you see about live arena missions would go up exponentially because the vast majority of vocal players i've run into don't really want a challenge from arena but would much prefer the one to be hitting the pinata and not vice versa. I shudder to think what the rate would be for accept. 

While I agree that a lot of peeps would prefer to just punch a punching bag in live arena for 15 seconds and call it a win....I definitely fall into the minority of people that enjoy working through the fight and winning a "fair match" through toon selection strategy, build quality and skill selection.

I picked Armanz the other day, and this player responded with a couple of tanky pics, so I switched gears and picked all tanky toons.  I banned Elva; he banned Armanz, and we had a jolly good 5 minute back and forth.  It was the most fun I have had in Live Arena in months:

i

  

Jan 12, 2025, 14:5601/12/25
Jan 12, 2025, 14:57(edited)
01/15/21
1224

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I strongly feel a competitive pvp mode with a ladder system should have no matchmaking other than  matching you with someone close to you on the ladder.

The highest ranked teams should be the best teams


Edit, some of those teams are crazy, how much have they spent to get all those +4 mythics?

ShortOnSkillzModerator
Jan 12, 2025, 15:5501/12/25
06/24/19
2698
dthorne04

While you're def gonna run into rough matchups, a few things off the top of my head:

1) team power is largely irrelevant

2) refuse/accept would be an absolute nightmare. whatever complaints you see about live arena missions would go up exponentially because the vast majority of vocal players i've run into don't really want a challenge from arena but would much prefer the one to be hitting the pinata and not vice versa. I shudder to think what the rate would be for accept. 

God I can't imagine how awful this would be.  It would add so much time to a mode that already takes too long.

ShortOnSkillzModerator
Jan 12, 2025, 15:5501/12/25
06/24/19
2698
dax


i

that was my welcome to G4, think i may of refused that fight!!

Only 11k ranking?  Easy win.

ShortOnSkillzModerator
Jan 12, 2025, 15:5601/12/25
06/24/19
2698
Trevor Wilson

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I strongly feel a competitive pvp mode with a ladder system should have no matchmaking other than  matching you with someone close to you on the ladder.

The highest ranked teams should be the best teams


Edit, some of those teams are crazy, how much have they spent to get all those +4 mythics?

If primals are usually $5 then they've spent at least $25.

Jan 12, 2025, 17:1001/12/25
01/15/21
1224
ShortOnSkillz

If primals are usually $5 then they've spent at least $25.

The base odds are 0.5% on primals and they have multiple +4 mythics. I imagine the spend is in the tens of thousands at the very 

To me that seems insane but each to their own, amd krakens pay for the game

Jan 12, 2025, 22:1601/12/25
12/08/14
4

1. The rate for Accept/Refuse is irrelevant.  It is relevant to the team developing the matching system. A great deal of Refusals means the system is not working. Most people will Accept a battle they deem fair or interesting or one the feel they can win. They will Refuse battles that seem unwinnable. Both Accept and the battle moves forward. One person Refuses and the battle is canceled and another match is made.  Seems like a veery simple and strait forward way for folks to decide rather than being impelled.

2. If my 250k team is matched against one with 400k to over 1 million+  then team power certainly does become relevant. I can decide if I want to go up against that team or not. We should be able to see the team power of the team we are matched against In order to help make an informed decision about Accepting or Refusing a match.  Once both teams have been decided the Team powers can be calculated and displayed.

3. We see the team power in Arena & Tag Team Arena and we make choices about attacking or not partially based on that. It should be the same in Live Arena.   If I simply close the window it counts as a loss. This is bogus imho.  We would not need  accept & refuse buttons if we could choose not to join a battle.  As is,  I am forced to enter the battle and watch myself be soundly defeated  or close the window and be counted as defeated.  

4. The matching system simply has no way of creating fairly matched teams other than random. Having the algorithm based on account lvl instead of  Live Arena pnts (or however it is currently being done) would give a better chance of creating evenly matched teams.

4. The idea behind the Accept/Refuse button is to give us a choice Instead of being forced into a battle we already know we have no chance of winning.  There have been many times where I was completely overwhelmed and my next battle I was matched against the very same team. 

Keep In mind that if we do not join Arena and Live Arena we cannot advance our Great Hall. This makes PvP a requirement to advancing in the game.

dthorne04Moderator
Jan 13, 2025, 00:0401/13/25
12/30/20
6538
Skye

1. The rate for Accept/Refuse is irrelevant.  It is relevant to the team developing the matching system. A great deal of Refusals means the system is not working. Most people will Accept a battle they deem fair or interesting or one the feel they can win. They will Refuse battles that seem unwinnable. Both Accept and the battle moves forward. One person Refuses and the battle is canceled and another match is made.  Seems like a veery simple and strait forward way for folks to decide rather than being impelled.

2. If my 250k team is matched against one with 400k to over 1 million+  then team power certainly does become relevant. I can decide if I want to go up against that team or not. We should be able to see the team power of the team we are matched against In order to help make an informed decision about Accepting or Refusing a match.  Once both teams have been decided the Team powers can be calculated and displayed.

3. We see the team power in Arena & Tag Team Arena and we make choices about attacking or not partially based on that. It should be the same in Live Arena.   If I simply close the window it counts as a loss. This is bogus imho.  We would not need  accept & refuse buttons if we could choose not to join a battle.  As is,  I am forced to enter the battle and watch myself be soundly defeated  or close the window and be counted as defeated.  

4. The matching system simply has no way of creating fairly matched teams other than random. Having the algorithm based on account lvl instead of  Live Arena pnts (or however it is currently being done) would give a better chance of creating evenly matched teams.

4. The idea behind the Accept/Refuse button is to give us a choice Instead of being forced into a battle we already know we have no chance of winning.  There have been many times where I was completely overwhelmed and my next battle I was matched against the very same team. 

Keep In mind that if we do not join Arena and Live Arena we cannot advance our Great Hall. This makes PvP a requirement to advancing in the game.

1) How is it irrelevant? The rate of acceptance would be so low that time spent in live arena would become straight up prohibitive. i stick by my claim that most vocal players (especially about live arena) don't want anything that resemble a challenge. Combine that with the fact that your idea about team power won't work until all teams are shown/picked, or at least done to some extent and you're just going to get nonstop withdraws from fights if there are no penalties. Where is the line drawn? What if you mispick, if your opponent takes your best option in Gold before you, etc. It would get abused horribly.

eventually you are going to run into massive issues where your idea kills live arena due to participation.

2) Live arena isn't meant to be the same as Classic & Tag, full stop. Classic is at a point now where farming medals is essentially a participation prize and is extremely easy once in Gold V which boils the Great Hall farming down to a time thing rather than difficulty. 

3) Matching is by tiers but the account level eventually doesn't really matter since everyone is capped at 100. This might matter a bit when people are coming up in Bronze but won't really matter in Gold at the very least.

I can buy that there are ways Live Arena can be improved but I don't agree with players being entitled to area bonuses - nor is it as big of a requirement for progression as the static stat bonuses the Great Hall gives.  

Jan 13, 2025, 02:1901/13/25
Jan 13, 2025, 03:08(edited)
07/01/22
613
Skye

1. The rate for Accept/Refuse is irrelevant.  It is relevant to the team developing the matching system. A great deal of Refusals means the system is not working. Most people will Accept a battle they deem fair or interesting or one the feel they can win. They will Refuse battles that seem unwinnable. Both Accept and the battle moves forward. One person Refuses and the battle is canceled and another match is made.  Seems like a veery simple and strait forward way for folks to decide rather than being impelled.

2. If my 250k team is matched against one with 400k to over 1 million+  then team power certainly does become relevant. I can decide if I want to go up against that team or not. We should be able to see the team power of the team we are matched against In order to help make an informed decision about Accepting or Refusing a match.  Once both teams have been decided the Team powers can be calculated and displayed.

3. We see the team power in Arena & Tag Team Arena and we make choices about attacking or not partially based on that. It should be the same in Live Arena.   If I simply close the window it counts as a loss. This is bogus imho.  We would not need  accept & refuse buttons if we could choose not to join a battle.  As is,  I am forced to enter the battle and watch myself be soundly defeated  or close the window and be counted as defeated.  

4. The matching system simply has no way of creating fairly matched teams other than random. Having the algorithm based on account lvl instead of  Live Arena pnts (or however it is currently being done) would give a better chance of creating evenly matched teams.

4. The idea behind the Accept/Refuse button is to give us a choice Instead of being forced into a battle we already know we have no chance of winning.  There have been many times where I was completely overwhelmed and my next battle I was matched against the very same team. 

Keep In mind that if we do not join Arena and Live Arena we cannot advance our Great Hall. This makes PvP a requirement to advancing in the game.

Two things, just to help save you some time going forward: 

1. You should be able to know how powerful the team is 3-4 Champions in (Which is 2 picks) regardless of team power so this "Refuse/Accept" idea is kinda unnecessary since you can quit before the Ban phase. Given what your team was, you probably should have quit as soon as you saw 2 Mythics that were 5+ Star Souls based on the team you were planning on using. 

2. If you're going to get to the point in the process where your hypothetical Refuse/Accept is, you might as well do the fight anyway since you've already done the most time-consuming part.

I will say there is satisfaction to be gotten when you beat a Whale or Kraken, so I usually fight them anyway just to see. Sometimes you get lucky:


i


Jan 13, 2025, 02:2201/13/25
07/01/22
613
ShortOnSkillz

Only 11k ranking?  Easy win.

What's really funny is the sole Leggo on that team would scare me the most

ShortOnSkillzModerator
Jan 13, 2025, 16:5101/13/25
06/24/19
2698
Trevor Wilson

The base odds are 0.5% on primals and they have multiple +4 mythics. I imagine the spend is in the tens of thousands at the very 

To me that seems insane but each to their own, amd krakens pay for the game

Oh I'm sure it's well over 5 figures.  Crazy to me as well but if they have the means and desire, more power to them.

ShortOnSkillzModerator
Jan 13, 2025, 16:5101/13/25
06/24/19
2698
Onikage55

What's really funny is the sole Leggo on that team would scare me the most

Marius can definitely be a menace.

Jan 13, 2025, 21:2501/13/25
12/19/19
6552

I've still yet to see someone post a screenshot of 10 daily battles that illustrates unfair or unbalanced...

Yes, we all get the mismatched but somehow this unfair system still allows everyone to progress into gold simply through frequency of play.  How unfair to those spending money to progress!



Jan 13, 2025, 22:2401/13/25
12/07/20
143
Trips

I've still yet to see someone post a screenshot of 10 daily battles that illustrates unfair or unbalanced...

Yes, we all get the mismatched but somehow this unfair system still allows everyone to progress into gold simply through frequency of play.  How unfair to those spending money to progress!




i

If i can do that (actually it got to 6) the matchmaking is deffinately brocken 😂

harleQuinnModerator
Jan 13, 2025, 22:3001/13/25
02/24/19
8064
Trips

I've still yet to see someone post a screenshot of 10 daily battles that illustrates unfair or unbalanced...

Yes, we all get the mismatched but somehow this unfair system still allows everyone to progress into gold simply through frequency of play.  How unfair to those spending money to progress!



It does seem unfair to the spenders that they wouldn't be allowed to match with the entire player base in their tiers. 

Would take away any reason to purchase anything, in my very small and humble opinion.

Jan 13, 2025, 22:4001/13/25
12/16/21
1487
harleQuinn

It does seem unfair to the spenders that they wouldn't be allowed to match with the entire player base in their tiers. 

Would take away any reason to purchase anything, in my very small and humble opinion.

Except for giving themselves an overwhelming advantage in literally every aspect of the game OTHER than getting free pvp wins by virtue of just having paid more.

dthorne04Moderator
Jan 13, 2025, 23:4001/13/25
Jan 13, 2025, 23:40(edited)
12/30/20
6538
MooredRat

Except for giving themselves an overwhelming advantage in literally every aspect of the game OTHER than getting free pvp wins by virtue of just having paid more.

After playing a lot of people who have better rosters and blessings than I have in live arena:

There is still very much a skill element except in the largest of margins. Obviously this will run out at some point but from my experience it definitely won't be until in G4. Still so many people who mess up ordering/decisions with Armanz which is one reason why I don't mind leaving him after the ban phase.