before anyone says geomancer i dont own him, i also dont have block damage.

iv done more research into this and all i keep seeing is geomancer, geomancer and geomancer, can this content really not be beaten without the use of 1 single champion of 500 + to exist in the game?

Of course it can be beaten without geo (not with what you have).  You keep seeing that because he owns the twins, he is their god.  they can be beaten without him, but he makes it look easy.  

I recommend you focus on content that is not so end game focused.

mind sharing ur insight into who can replace him then? ur response was unhelpful tbh you just pointed out its possible but offer absolutely no suggestion who i can replace him with. i have many champions in vault etc, but im failing to see anyone come up with a replacement list for geomancer.

I apologize for not trying to be more helpful in my initial response.  The way I first beat twins is irrelevant.  I used a cheesy uk team.  my team now is irrelevant. I use geo which you do not have.  In between I used (and still rely on) block damage.

2 block damage champs, a strong revive(duchess) and damage dealers... won rate on 15 was around 50%

who were you using to apply damage when you diddnt have geo

Nothing unhelpful about angwil's advice given that you are almost certainly lacking a combination of gear, specific champs to circumvent gear/stats, etc. to progress further in Iron Twins as it is later game content.

It would probably be helpful if you posted a screenshot of your roster, as you might not be listing useful champs and would likely yield better advice than listing 11 champions while also giving no indication of what kind of stat thresholds you can hit. 

Anyway, max HP nukers can be good, decrease speed A1s can help keep the boss under control between cleanses, damage mitigation (especially passive ones like Duchess) will be important

Is it doable without Geomancer? Sure.

Is it worth doing without him? Probably not.

it was unhelpful, his 2nd reply was more helpful, cant seem to get plarium play working on here to post my full vault, but sadly i think it will be in vein as what kram said below is 100% spot on the money, this content is so heavily revolved around 1 speciic champion that its probably not even worth attempting to do until you land geo, not going to bullshit thats a really big let down in content as far as im concerned. iv seen multiple topics like this for various different reasons and bosses and people will always have multiple rosters you can take to beat something aka use versatility like the game intended to beat content, irontwins is anything but this, its literally you need geo or dont bother, i know you will have a speech prepared for this but its true, and devs should probably think about balancing out irontwins content (no not because i want to complete it right now and i think i should have the right over other higher levels who probably cant complete it either) but because  again this content is so heavily revolved around 1 champion that it almost defeats what the game is actually about, using versatility to beat content.

A number of burn champs exist. I did much of my early Iron Twins using Bullwark and Shearsha. Not great but at the right affinities can work just as well and sometimes better before hitting the next plateau. 

My current plateau is 13-14 even with Geo while the two 14s I do are Magic and Force which is almost unimaginable but there is only so much Helicath and Dymethia can pull off till I finish Knight's Reverant for the Lydia win.

Yeah, been there, done that, haven't pulled that feeling. 

i get what ur saying, its possible, i know its possible because iv done it my self, the problem is its virtually impossible to have flawless runs especially i u want to use auto, u will be failing it a good percent of the time and the only solution is geo, thats a pretty crappy design from a devs pov, no other content in this game relies so heavily around 1 single champion, again it goes against what the game is, a game of versatility , games not versatile if theres only 1 champion that can do the content properly, also the fact devs charge you energy to attempt to do it is just another insult to injury, its almost like they dont want people to actually engage in their content.

anyway this topic has been closed, got my answer already which is i need geo or dont bother.

Until you post your roster we really can't help, plenty do without geo...

Yes, please post the roster. You can screenshot it from your phone and upload it to these forums from there if you're having issue with Plarium Play on your PC.

like i say its more about the fact you cant consistently run it without a reasonable fail % chance when not running geo, also highly doubt anyone is running top floors without geo, iv just accepted this is content you cant beat properly/consistently and worth while without geo.

Just to be clear, that isn't *at all* what I was implying when I said it wasn't worth doing without Geo.

The problem is simply that non-Geo teams will be slower than I consider worth doing is all. Not that they're going to fail. All Geo does is makes the run faster. I fully expect swapping him out for, say, Ninja, would result in a reasonably fast run. Same for someone like Dreng.

I farm stage 11 without geo. The key champ for me is Gnishak, as he does a lot of damage with bombs, and then puts up protected poisons which the twins can't cleanse.

Hp burn (specially activators such as Dreng, Teo, Crohnam) also do good damage. Then there's max HP damage dealers.

The most important thing is that you have to finish the fight fast. The boss racks up stats over time (separately from the iron brand debuffs), so the hits get harder and harder. Resistance builds aren't worth it if you sacrifice survivability or damage for it. Bringing 2 revivers allows you to reset iron brands much more efficiently than putting high resist on all your champs.

P.S.: if you can get a team to farm stage 11+ on auto, I'd say it's worth it. The essences are much more valuable than the coins, and 11 is the first stage where you get them.

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I posted roster of 60s im using but again its probably not worth doing without geo

Also, FYI, here's a fully-unkillable team:

Helicath 283 speed
[anyone]
Pk 1 216
Pk 2 214
Pk 3 213 

ya iv tried similar combos with what i have, iv even gone down the method you mention where i hit him hard and nearly take him down in 3 mins, then randomly he can still nuke out whole team at 3 mins, then other fights he cant nuke me out until 6 mins in, i find this part of his mechanic random, also the only hp burn i had was fahrakin, which he aint bad but his a3 can get me into trouble, and not using the a3 on top kinda defeats the purpose, i did pull a skrank today, thinking he might be able to give me the damage/burn boost i need, but also imagine hes going to be hard to keep alive at twins.

no unkillable or geo sadly, i have fully booked klod who can put up a 30-35k hp shield and rector to veil