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Live Arena Preview and New Champ

Live Arena Preview and New Champ

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harleQuinnModerator
Mar 29, 2023, 14:0803/29/23
02/24/19
7785

Live Arena Preview and New Champ

Live Arena is coming and bringing with it a new champ you can earn by progressing through the Live Tiers. Here he is:

i

He can only be obtained as a fragment collector and will not be in shards.

Additionally, here is a preview video of the new Live Arena.

RAID: Shadow Legends | Live Arena Preview 

Highlights and details on Live Arena in text form is here: https://plarium.com/forum/en/raid-shadow-legends/843_news/42109_update-7-00-0-highlights/

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92
Comments
50
Comments
ShortOnSkillzModerator
Mar 29, 2023, 14:3003/29/23
06/24/19
2132

Lego looks very good.  Obviously without base stats or multiplier information it's impossible to tell for sure but seems like a strong attacking option without being overpowered.

harleQuinnModerator
Mar 29, 2023, 14:3303/29/23
02/24/19
7785
ShortOnSkillz

Lego looks very good.  Obviously without base stats or multiplier information it's impossible to tell for sure but seems like a strong attacking option without being overpowered.

Yeah, gonna be waiting on those multis/testing to really see aren't we?

Mar 29, 2023, 14:3403/29/23
06/25/20
6618

What the actual ... WHAT? An *unresistable* buff strip? Well, if they wanted to change the meta ... this'll do it.

Mar 29, 2023, 14:5403/29/23
06/25/20
6618

The only part of that which made me do a double-take is this:

"One important note to remember: once you reach Live Arena Gold Tiers, all duplicate Champions across both Teams will be prohibited. Meaning that you cannot use a Champion if your opponent already has that Champion on their Team! So be careful and take that into consideration when preparing for Live Arena battles."

That's gonna make for some ... very interesting counterplay. Like, you'll be picking a champ specifically to deny them from picking it, because they need it for their comp.

I have no idea how the meta for this is going to play out. Certainly will be interesting.

harleQuinnModerator
Mar 29, 2023, 15:2203/29/23
Mar 29, 2023, 15:27(edited)
02/24/19
7785

I wonder how the new sets will sneak in:

Impulse

4 Set: SPD +12%, 30% chance to reduce random Skill cooldown by 1 turn

Zeal

4 Set: C. DMG +25%, +7.5% Damage for every 25% HP the target has. 


4 piece seems like it will make it tougher to break through into prominence, especially in Stoneskin meta. Reflex++ seems like it has a place though.

Mar 29, 2023, 15:3503/29/23
06/25/20
6618
harleQuinn

I wonder how the new sets will sneak in:

Impulse

4 Set: SPD +12%, 30% chance to reduce random Skill cooldown by 1 turn

Zeal

4 Set: C. DMG +25%, +7.5% Damage for every 25% HP the target has. 


4 piece seems like it will make it tougher to break through into prominence, especially in Stoneskin meta. Reflex++ seems like it has a place though.

I'm not sure I'd call it a "better" Reflex set. The 12% speed bonus is nice, sure, but going from 40% to 30% is a big hit in effectiveness.

Zeal, though - that looks like a great set for just about any big max-hp based nuker. I'm curious - how does the rounding work? At 100% HP, I'd assume it's +30%, but at 99% HP does it drop down to +22.5%? If so, it's still probably better for at least one person to run, but won't be better for more than one person on the team to use.

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 29, 2023, 15:4703/29/23
12/30/20
5990

Reflex 2.0 is gonna bop in Hydra, that's for certain. Gimme. I'm not sure about Zeal yet, though. 

I love the idea of counterplay through champion picks, really anything that increases edge/winrate through better decision making is an A+ from me. Seems like there may be a tipping point - I'd assume in Gold - where those of us without very deep PvP rosters may run into problems when it comes to the dupe rule + ban. 

Quintus seems awesome. 

Going to be nice to boost PvE stats through medals in some of the higher end content, looking at you Hydra and Hard FK. 

Mar 29, 2023, 16:0803/29/23
10/15/20
2041

When does this live arena start?

Mar 29, 2023, 17:0203/29/23
06/25/20
6618
dthorne04

Reflex 2.0 is gonna bop in Hydra, that's for certain. Gimme. I'm not sure about Zeal yet, though. 

I love the idea of counterplay through champion picks, really anything that increases edge/winrate through better decision making is an A+ from me. Seems like there may be a tipping point - I'd assume in Gold - where those of us without very deep PvP rosters may run into problems when it comes to the dupe rule + ban. 

Quintus seems awesome. 

Going to be nice to boost PvE stats through medals in some of the higher end content, looking at you Hydra and Hard FK. 

Why are you thinking that the new set is going to be particularly good in Hydra? You're gaining about 11-13 speed, in exchange for losing 25% of your skill cooldown reduction. Seems to me like that's a bad trade?

Mar 29, 2023, 17:2903/29/23
Mar 29, 2023, 17:47(edited)
06/05/22
433

Zeal

A net damage multiplier is a huge deal. Same reason why savage is so good.

The stat increase is almost irrelevant. The problem is the illusion of % stats. Since the modifier is to base stats, the net effect is much less. C.dmg starts at 150% (you have to add 100 to the displayed stat to get the actual damage multiplier!) and any sort of competitive build will have it at 300% or higher. So that stat bonus is just +8% net damage. That gets added on top of a conditional +30% damage, yielding +38%.

For savage, calculating exact damage mitigation from def is really hard, but I'm pretty sure it's sub-linear. So Savage is at most a 33% damage increase.

Conclusion: it depends on the defense of the target. But in any case, the 25% cdmg is much worse than it seems, almost all the power is concentrated in the net damage multiplier.

Impulse

Gives you half a speed set (per piece) in exchange for 1/4 of a reflex set. That requires some analysis:

Let's say you have a 3 turn CD skill that you want to hit as often as possible. You need one trigger in 2 turns. Reflex has a 1 - 0.6^2 = 64% chance of triggering. Impulse has a 1 - 0.7^2 = 51%. So: 

  • No set: 33% skill uses per turn
  • Reflex: 42.37% skill uses per turn: 1/(.64*2+.36*3)
  • Impulse: 40.16% skill uses per turn: 1/(.51*2+.49*3)

Reflex/Impulse = 105.5%. for impulse to be worth it, that 12% base speed needs to give you 5.5% net speed. So it's only good if you're running champs at ~2.18x base spd or below.

Conclusion: it's really bad. Worse than old instinct, giving tiny spd bonuses at the loss of a significant fraction of its other effect.

ETA: that analysis is for long battles where average throughput matters (like hydra). It might be that impulse is ok in arena or something, where hitting certain spd thresholds is a must, and the reset just gives you a few percentage points of winning the battle.

ETA 2: Hmm, not sure about my math. Will run some simulations to double check.

ETA 3: fixed math.

Mar 29, 2023, 18:0303/29/23
06/25/20
6618

I don't think you're interpreting Zeal correctly. I think their language is wrong. My reading of it is that you gain more *CDMG* the higher their HP is, not more *actual* damage. Because if it were as you think it is, then yeah it would 100% be broken.

Mar 29, 2023, 18:0703/29/23
06/05/22
433
kramaswamy.kr

I don't think you're interpreting Zeal correctly. I think their language is wrong. My reading of it is that you gain more *CDMG* the higher their HP is, not more *actual* damage. Because if it were as you think it is, then yeah it would 100% be broken.

If that's the case, then it's definitely worse than savage. Even at full effect, it would only be +55 cdmg ~ 14% net damage increase.

harleQuinnModerator
Mar 29, 2023, 18:1403/29/23
02/24/19
7785
kramaswamy.kr

Why are you thinking that the new set is going to be particularly good in Hydra? You're gaining about 11-13 speed, in exchange for losing 25% of your skill cooldown reduction. Seems to me like that's a bad trade?

Better? Maybe not. But it does give you more chances to get good Reflex style sets, and let you focus that 13 speed in a different substat.

So a change in Reflexiveness, one could say, for a bit of stat bonus elsewhere than can help you hit stat minimums. And just more of that style of gear overall to help find better pieces for Hydra and future content champs.

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 29, 2023, 18:1503/29/23
Mar 29, 2023, 18:15(edited)
12/30/20
5990
kramaswamy.kr

Why are you thinking that the new set is going to be particularly good in Hydra? You're gaining about 11-13 speed, in exchange for losing 25% of your skill cooldown reduction. Seems to me like that's a bad trade?

Some of it comes from just a lack of high end Reflex. I think there's realistically only so much most players have when it comes to Brutal/NM/I presume UNM, soon. Maybe that changes with Hard IG 10, but it's tough to want to get at that when Hard Dragon 10 can be done with food, and then Hard Spider 10, not to mention trying to figure out Hard FK at some point.

So, making it easier to hit the high end stat thresholds while losing out on a 10% cooldown reduction chance is something I'm willing to explore. Perhaps I am wrong, can think of a few sets that missed predictions with Defiant coming to mind. 

edit: I think I got snailed pretty hard 😂

harleQuinnModerator
Mar 29, 2023, 18:1803/29/23
02/24/19
7785
dthorne04

Some of it comes from just a lack of high end Reflex. I think there's realistically only so much most players have when it comes to Brutal/NM/I presume UNM, soon. Maybe that changes with Hard IG 10, but it's tough to want to get at that when Hard Dragon 10 can be done with food, and then Hard Spider 10, not to mention trying to figure out Hard FK at some point.

So, making it easier to hit the high end stat thresholds while losing out on a 10% cooldown reduction chance is something I'm willing to explore. Perhaps I am wrong, can think of a few sets that missed predictions with Defiant coming to mind. 

edit: I think I got snailed pretty hard 😂

Wow, copy my posts much, Mister Snail?

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 29, 2023, 18:2503/29/23
12/30/20
5990
harleQuinn

Wow, copy my posts much, Mister Snail?


i

cut me some slack, still haven't had breakfast yet :)

Mar 29, 2023, 18:4503/29/23
06/05/22
433
dthorne04

Some of it comes from just a lack of high end Reflex. I think there's realistically only so much most players have when it comes to Brutal/NM/I presume UNM, soon. Maybe that changes with Hard IG 10, but it's tough to want to get at that when Hard Dragon 10 can be done with food, and then Hard Spider 10, not to mention trying to figure out Hard FK at some point.

So, making it easier to hit the high end stat thresholds while losing out on a 10% cooldown reduction chance is something I'm willing to explore. Perhaps I am wrong, can think of a few sets that missed predictions with Defiant coming to mind. 

edit: I think I got snailed pretty hard 😂

I think this is wrong. Just look at how hard it is to assemble decent divine X sets, and those are 2 pieces.

Without spending gems, you're looking at 2-3 pieces of Impulse per week. For comparison, even if you just do the fusion each month and "don't farm IG", that is about 100 runs, with gives you a dozen pieces of reflex, so about the same. And we don't know what the gear rank/rarity distribution is going to be like. If it's anything like classic arena, it'll be equivalent to pieces from IG20 at best. If you simply do IG10h for the fusion, you're pulling way ahead of that.

Prediction: it'll be 6 months before I have a single good Impulse set.

Mar 29, 2023, 18:5203/29/23
06/05/22
433

Ok, enough about the gear, let's look at the champ.


I can't quite believe my eyes. 10% max hp per enemy buff, on every skill? Isn't that bonkers insane on hydra? should work on weak hits through poison cloud, right? so he does that on an AoE, and then twice on his A1, correct? Isn't this Acrizia-level insanity?


Do the hydra heads have the same 10% protection as other bosses? If not, it would be even more broken.


This feels similar to Ukko... it can't be that the skill works as written, there must be some catch!


This guy might also be the fastest mino farmer out there, as mino has a protected buff for 3 turns. Any other PvE content this guy owns? some DT waves perhaps?


(Hope that double posting won't trigger a forum ban again :p)

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 29, 2023, 19:4603/29/23
Mar 29, 2023, 19:47(edited)
12/30/20
5990
Urlibu FTP

I think this is wrong. Just look at how hard it is to assemble decent divine X sets, and those are 2 pieces.

Without spending gems, you're looking at 2-3 pieces of Impulse per week. For comparison, even if you just do the fusion each month and "don't farm IG", that is about 100 runs, with gives you a dozen pieces of reflex, so about the same. And we don't know what the gear rank/rarity distribution is going to be like. If it's anything like classic arena, it'll be equivalent to pieces from IG20 at best. If you simply do IG10h for the fusion, you're pulling way ahead of that.

Prediction: it'll be 6 months before I have a single good Impulse set.

To be blunt, those sets are average at best. Divine Speed is good/fine. The reason why it's so hard to get those sets together is 1) drop rate of higher end pieces and 2) their effects aren't great. I suppose if I needed an extra Seer buff I'd be in. Relentless, Reflex and now Impulse provide effects that I can't get anywhere else and are sets I build certain PvE teams - specifically Hydra - around. 

I'll also be progressing through Live Arena while improving my stats with Area Bonuses in high end content, which to me is a better use of my in game time than Ice Golem. 

Of course it's possible grabbing meaningful Impulse is a slog, but I'm willing to spend gems to expedite the process of grabbing overall rewards.