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Did something change behind the scenes in the last 2 days?

Did something change behind the scenes in the last 2 days?

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Mar 14, 2023, 01:3803/14/23
11/01/21
18

Did something change behind the scenes in the last 2 days?

A few months ago I got to the point where I can 4 key NM CB, and some of the time 3 key it.


My CB team has been in place for months, I haven't messed with the team makeup, nor have I touched any gear on the champs involved:  Frozen Banshee, Scyl, Faile, Elanaril and Deliana.   I can consistently put out 12-15mil per key.  Except the last 2 days..... constant 10mil runs back to back.  It really feels like something has changed behind the scenes that hasn't been announced.   Anyone else finding this?   Another member of my clan says in the last 2 days, for no apparent reason, his NM team's damage has gone up significantly.

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Mar 14, 2023, 01:4803/14/23
06/25/20
6641

This is almost always because of changes you didn't expect would affect your run. Things like faction guardians, etc. For newer teams though, that aren't tuned, the more likely result is that some alteration of gear, or blessings/GH/guardians/etc, has resulted in the "wrong" person becoming the stun target.

A better question really is - you need to work on your team. The five you mentioned really don't fit well together on a CB team. Scyl for example will *constantly* mess your runs up, because her passive will constantly change turn orders. Elenaril isn't *terrible*, but she's definitely not *good* for CB, since her A3 is 100% useless there. And, between FB and Fayne, you already have enough poisons, you have no need for another poisoner.

Mar 14, 2023, 02:1703/14/23
11/01/21
18
kramaswamy.kr

This is almost always because of changes you didn't expect would affect your run. Things like faction guardians, etc. For newer teams though, that aren't tuned, the more likely result is that some alteration of gear, or blessings/GH/guardians/etc, has resulted in the "wrong" person becoming the stun target.

A better question really is - you need to work on your team. The five you mentioned really don't fit well together on a CB team. Scyl for example will *constantly* mess your runs up, because her passive will constantly change turn orders. Elenaril isn't *terrible*, but she's definitely not *good* for CB, since her A3 is 100% useless there. And, between FB and Fayne, you already have enough poisons, you have no need for another poisoner.

I understand the advice on the CB team makeup... but I am dealing with the limited selection of champs that I have pulled.  I did see a team I could make on the optimizer that as a bargain basement unkillable 1 key NM team that I could build.... but it only had 1 listed run on it, and I've copied the exact speeds, masteries, etc etc on it and I can't get the speed tune to work at all.  So unfortunately I have to use the team that worksd the best for me.


On my current CB NM team, I have changed no gear, given no extra awakenings to, alterered absolutely nothing in regards to thge CB team, the faction guardians governing them, or any other facet of the champs themselves... They have all stayed exactly tha same for the last 3 months.


The Guild Hall is the only thing that has been increased... but not in the last 4 weeks.  I have been saving to purchase level 8, 9 & 10 in one area of the GH all at one time during the next CvC, so it can't have been that affecting my CB team either in the last 2 days.

Mar 14, 2023, 02:2903/14/23
06/25/20
6641

In all honesty, even if you changed *nothing*, the fact that you have Scyl on the team means everything becomes 100% random. Her passive just does not play well on CB, *at all*.

Mar 14, 2023, 02:3103/14/23
11/01/21
18
kramaswamy.kr

In all honesty, even if you changed *nothing*, the fact that you have Scyl on the team means everything becomes 100% random. Her passive just does not play well on CB, *at all*.

For 3 months all my runs have been 12-15 mil, even with Scyl being on the team.  There is 'zero' possibility that suddenly out of nowhere, she is throwing off  or 9 keys in a row down to 10mil.



Mar 14, 2023, 02:3403/14/23
06/25/20
6641

Look - I'm not sure what you want me to say. But I can 100% guarantee you that whatever the cause of your drop in damage - it's entirely on your end. Nothing about the boss has changed in like ... two years.

Mar 14, 2023, 02:4003/14/23
11/01/21
18
kramaswamy.kr

Look - I'm not sure what you want me to say. But I can 100% guarantee you that whatever the cause of your drop in damage - it's entirely on your end. Nothing about the boss has changed in like ... two years.

It doesn't have to be the boss.... It could be something about one of the champs abilities.... it could be an awakening thats acting different.   It could be a whole list of things that has nothing to do with my end.


I've been do nothing but dailies and saving up resources for the next CvC... so I can guarantee you that's nothing on my end since nothing that affects my CB team, or the champs on it, has been altered on my account in at least the last month, if not three.


I'm not asking 'you' to give me answers.... my question was to anyone else who may have found that their champs damage was massively different all of a sudden with no warning.  Issues 'have' occured after patches in the game before...

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 14, 2023, 02:4403/14/23
Mar 14, 2023, 02:45(edited)
12/30/20
6039

Nope, there's no known issue with Clan Boss damage post update, nor any change made with said update that would affect damage.

That is a very small sample size to try to get any usable information from too. Echoing Kram, Scyl's passive will completely change the way runs look, not to mention you could just be encountering outlier runs in CB. 

It could be a whole host of things on your end from affinity, to missing debuffs, to Scyl's speed boost throwing off tunes, combinations of those and other factors. There's going to be consistency issues with comps like this, unfortunately. 

Mar 14, 2023, 02:4703/14/23
Mar 14, 2023, 02:50(edited)
11/01/21
18
dthorne04

Nope, there's no known issue with Clan Boss damage post update, nor any change made with said update that would affect damage.

That is a very small sample size to try to get any usable information from too. Echoing Kram, Scyl's passive will completely change the way runs look, not to mention you could just be encountering outlier runs in CB. 

It could be a whole host of things on your end from affinity, to missing debuffs, to Scyl's speed boost throwing off tunes, combinations of those and other factors. There's going to be consistency issues with comps like this, unfortunately. 

Yeah I considered just a string of bad runs.... but it's just REALLY unlikely that I have hit 8 or so keys with bad runs of almost 'exactly' the same amount of damage.


2 or 3 keys... maybe...  5 or 6.... I'm starting to suspect something's wrong... 8+ keys... I'm buying a lottery ticket.  This team has been running 12-15 mil consistently for 3months, and for the last month I've don'e nothing but do dailies and save up resources.  Nothing that affects the champs on that team has been changed in any way.  No gear, no increased awakenings, they are all fully booked and mastried already.   The fact that all runs in last 2 days sho a 30% consistent drop in damage really doesn't say 'outlier' to me.

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 14, 2023, 02:5103/14/23
Mar 14, 2023, 02:52(edited)
12/30/20
6039
kduper

Yeah I considered just a string of bad runs.... but it's just REALLY unlikely that I have hit 8 or so keys with bad runs of almost 'exactly' the same amount of damage.


2 or 3 keys... maybe...  5 or 6.... I'm starting to suspect something's wrong... 8+ keys... I'm buying a lottery ticket.  This team has been running 12-15 mil consistently for 3months, and for the last month I've don'e nothing but do dailies and save up resources.  Nothing that affects the champs on that team has been changed in any way.  No gear, no increased awakenings, they are all fully booked and mastried already.   The fact that all runs in last 2 days sho a 30% consistent drop in damage really doesn't say 'outlier' to me.

I have a tuned unkillable comp on two accounts with proper accuracy, stun targeting, everything. Both see anywhere from 5-7% damage fluctuations on a daily basis without fail. So, it's certainly more likely than you think and especially within a very small sample size.

If your DPS isn't crit capped, that will cause fluctuations. If your debuffers don't have proper accuracy, that will cause fluctuations. If your speed boosts from Scyl end up throwing turns out of order, that will cause fluctuations.

You're welcome to approach this however you want, but if something changed materially we'd have heard about it already like we have with new dungeon bugs.

Mar 14, 2023, 02:5503/14/23
Mar 14, 2023, 02:56(edited)
11/01/21
18
dthorne04

I have a tuned unkillable comp on two accounts with proper accuracy, stun targeting, everything. Both see anywhere from 5-7% damage fluctuations on a daily basis without fail. So, it's certainly more likely than you think and especially within a very small sample size.

If your DPS isn't crit capped, that will cause fluctuations. If your debuffers don't have proper accuracy, that will cause fluctuations. If your speed boosts from Scyl end up throwing turns out of order, that will cause fluctuations.

You're welcome to approach this however you want, but if something changed materially we'd have heard about it already like we have with new dungeon bugs.

But then wouldn't I have noticed these fluctuations up to 30% different in the last 3 months?   You say my damage should vary 5 to 7%.... and I feel that's exact my normal fluctuations from 12-15mil are....  it's been 3 months straight of damage in this range.


I'm not saying anything about clan boss has been altered.... I'm looking for anyone else with those champs I listed on my team that may have found that their damage on a team that uses them has been strange over the last two days.   

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 14, 2023, 02:5803/14/23
Mar 14, 2023, 03:00(edited)
12/30/20
6039
kduper

But then wouldn't I have noticed these fluctuations up to 30% different in the last 3 months?   You say my damage should vary 5 to 7%.... and I feel that's exact my normal fluctuations from 12-15mil are....  it's been 3 months straight of damage in this range.


I'm not saying anything about clan boss has been altered.... I'm looking for anyone else with those champs I listed on my team that may have found that their damage on a team that uses them has been strange over the last two days.   

I mean, theres a great chance it's happened to you a few times and you've missed it. Or haven't noticed, cared or factored in when your runs go above average.

I said my team sees small fluctuations, and that's despite being properly tuned. your team is doomed from the start to not be properly tuned, thus you are stuck with a larger range of results. 

anyway, the answer as always is Occam's Razor.  in your shoes I'd be looking to try to develop a more consistent tune/team rather than trying to find answers to questions that don't exist. I would hazard a guess that people with similarly constructed teams run into issues like this all the time due to an inconsistent tune. 

Mar 14, 2023, 03:0503/14/23
11/01/21
18
dthorne04

I mean, theres a great chance it's happened to you a few times and you've missed it. Or haven't noticed, cared or factored in when your runs go above average.

I said my team sees small fluctuations, and that's despite being properly tuned. your team is doomed from the start to not be properly tuned, thus you are stuck with a larger range of results. 

anyway, the answer as always is Occam's Razor.  in your shoes I'd be looking to try to develop a more consistent tune/team rather than trying to find answers to questions that don't exist. I would hazard a guess that people with similarly constructed teams run into issues like this all the time due to an inconsistent tune. 

Well on the tuned team topic... I copied a bargain basement tune from HH Optimizer, and cloned every aspect of speed, mastery, gear sets, etc to match, but the team only had 1 run listed at 42 mil NM, and I could not duplicate it.  It alays failed horribly.   


I've tried and tried to speed tune it properly but after about 2 months of trying to get it to work I gave up.  

Frozen Banshee, Painkeeper, Fayne, Maneater and Elanaril


I wasted so much silver regearing it to try and get it to work.  I refuse to thro any more at it.  It only has 1 run listed on the optimiozer, so ho even knows of that as reliable or not.  I just don't have many other champs that show up in siggested team on the optimizer.

Mar 14, 2023, 03:0603/14/23
Mar 14, 2023, 03:07(edited)
06/25/20
6641

Don't use the optimizer. Use https://deadwoodjedi.com/

Also, I've said this before but I'll repeat - Elenaril has *no place* in CB. Replace her with just about anyone else and your damage will go up.

Mar 14, 2023, 03:0803/14/23
11/01/21
18
kramaswamy.kr

Don't use the optimizer. Use https://deadwoodjedi.com/

Also, I've said this before but I'll repeat - Elenaril has *no place* in CB. Replace her with just about anyone else and your damage will go up.

I'ver tried that site.... if you don't have one of the suggested unkillable teams listed, it's confusing as F to use.   I spent a week altering speeds and team settings on Jedi's site.... and it never came close to looking like it could tune properly.

Mar 14, 2023, 03:1003/14/23
06/25/20
6641

Shouldn't be confusing at all - but if you're looking for a "standard" 1:1 rotation, it's quite simple. Just have everyone be between 170 and 189 speed, and you'll settle into a comfortable rotation on both NM and UNM.

Mar 14, 2023, 03:4603/14/23
06/20/19
2181
kduper

Yeah I considered just a string of bad runs.... but it's just REALLY unlikely that I have hit 8 or so keys with bad runs of almost 'exactly' the same amount of damage.


2 or 3 keys... maybe...  5 or 6.... I'm starting to suspect something's wrong... 8+ keys... I'm buying a lottery ticket.  This team has been running 12-15 mil consistently for 3months, and for the last month I've don'e nothing but do dailies and save up resources.  Nothing that affects the champs on that team has been changed in any way.  No gear, no increased awakenings, they are all fully booked and mastried already.   The fact that all runs in last 2 days sho a 30% consistent drop in damage really doesn't say 'outlier' to me.

Let me give an example of how brutal rng can be.  This is IT, not CB, but demonstrates the point.

I do 6 runs nightly, 12 on Sunday.  Most nights I'm 100%, but two or three nights a week I may lose a run, occasionally even two, but never theee.  

Two sundays ago it took 12 runs to use the first 6 keys, 9 runs to use second 6.  I was completely maddened.  21 runs to use 12 keys!

this past Sunday it took only 12 runs to use 12 keys

RNG!

harleQuinnModerator
Mar 14, 2023, 04:2803/14/23
02/24/19
7825

Jumping in to encourage you to post your roster for us and maybe we can help you find a good CB team and specific tune on Deadwood's website and see more consistency. 

Scyl's random Inc Speed is going to seriously throw off any tune forever and always, unfortunately. Maybe we can find something that might bring some serious damage improvements. :)

Mar 14, 2023, 21:1703/14/23
04/30/20
6
kduper

It doesn't have to be the boss.... It could be something about one of the champs abilities.... it could be an awakening thats acting different.   It could be a whole list of things that has nothing to do with my end.


I've been do nothing but dailies and saving up resources for the next CvC... so I can guarantee you that's nothing on my end since nothing that affects my CB team, or the champs on it, has been altered on my account in at least the last month, if not three.


I'm not asking 'you' to give me answers.... my question was to anyone else who may have found that their champs damage was massively different all of a sudden with no warning.  Issues 'have' occured after patches in the game before...

Damage is down on my 3 key UNM CB team for one of the runs.  I have had to use 4 keys several times in the last 10 days.  I assumed it was RNG catching up with its random revenge.  

harleQuinnModerator
Mar 14, 2023, 22:0003/14/23
02/24/19
7825

It is RNG, yes. There have been no "behind the scenes" changes.