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NM CB Team - need advice

NM CB Team - need advice

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Feb 20, 2023, 13:0402/20/23
08/20/22
22

NM CB Team - need advice

Hello Guys,

I used to play with untuned CB team as follows: Apo, Ronda, Veno, Uro, Deacon. This team totally on auto allowed me to hit 15-17 mln per key - the border was round 20+ where CB just killed everybody as I didn't ran any specufic def buffs and had low base def stats.

I decided to make some adjustments - or more likely rebuild the team. Below is the result. I like the direction I took, however numbers are pretty low. Also Sepulcher is running with 171 speed, so no 4:3 tune for her as I don't have proper gear to get defensive stats at acceptable level with higher speed. I tried to use Jintoro and Ronda in place of Uro/Veno but overall these are not the best choices - If I build them to suistain damage their dmg output is very low. Also I need to more or less manually controll this battle for now. 

And also for this team gear is not fully upgraded which may have an impact - for my previous team all was upgraded.

Any thoughts?

i


i


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18
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Feb 20, 2023, 13:3302/20/23
06/25/20
6641

Assuming your team is properly tuned, I don't see anything *terribly* wrong with it. I think the one big change I'd make is to remove Urogrim in place of another DPS, since you have more than enough healing from Vogoth and his passive / Leech debuff.

You are following a standard 4:3 tune around Sepulcher, right?

Feb 20, 2023, 13:3902/20/23
08/20/22
22
kramaswamy.kr

Assuming your team is properly tuned, I don't see anything *terribly* wrong with it. I think the one big change I'd make is to remove Urogrim in place of another DPS, since you have more than enough healing from Vogoth and his passive / Leech debuff.

You are following a standard 4:3 tune around Sepulcher, right?

I'm about to. Right now Sepu is at 171 speed, need to get better gear to build her at 4:3. But thats the plan.

Also, I am afraid that w/o Urogrim poisons Veno will drop damage as he clicks those poisons.

Feb 20, 2023, 13:5502/20/23
06/25/20
6641
Denuch94

I'm about to. Right now Sepu is at 171 speed, need to get better gear to build her at 4:3. But thats the plan.

Also, I am afraid that w/o Urogrim poisons Veno will drop damage as he clicks those poisons.

Veno's A1 doesn't really add damage - it just speeds it up, which doesn't really matter for CB. You'll gain more damage from someone who can actually hit - for example, Ronda.

Feb 20, 2023, 14:1602/20/23
08/20/22
22

I thought that the best and most consistent damage option is to keep high ammount of poisions  on CB - that's why i use Veno + Urogrim. Perhaps I should rebuild Ronda and add her to equation in place of Uro. How should I build her? Arroun 2,1-2,7k DEF, 32k HP and as much CD and ATK as I can get while getting 100% CR?

Feb 20, 2023, 14:2602/20/23
Feb 20, 2023, 14:29(edited)
06/25/20
6641
Denuch94

I thought that the best and most consistent damage option is to keep high ammount of poisions  on CB - that's why i use Veno + Urogrim. Perhaps I should rebuild Ronda and add her to equation in place of Uro. How should I build her? Arroun 2,1-2,7k DEF, 32k HP and as much CD and ATK as I can get while getting 100% CR?

Don't get me wrong - poisons are great. But Urogrim's poisons aren't really great for CB. The A3 is on a 4-turn cooldown when booked, so you get two poisons every four turns from it. The A1, assuming you have the Sniper mastery, has a 45% chance, so, simplistically speaking let's say every A1 places one poison. That means every four turns, you get 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 5 poisons, or, on average, one poison every 1.25 turns. Each poison tick does 50k damage, and you'll on average have two active at any time, so you can essentially simplify the equation to - can you get more than 125K damage per turn from Ronda. Assuming you also take Master Hexer, you may want to round that up to 150K just to be extra safe.

I don't know your gearing level at the moment, so you'll need to figure out if you're able to reach that damage threshold. But with Giantslayer my guess is you should be able to np.

As for your suggested stats - you'll need to judge it for yourself. Your goal should be to have nobody die until the stun, after which your run will start to fall apart. Ronda shouldn't be the stun target, so she just needs to have enough defensive ability to survive the attacks, which should be quite easy given she'll have DEF up, Strengthen, and Ally Protect all active for the two non-stun attacks. 

My guess is you won't need as much DEF as you have planned, but you might want more HP. I'd probably aim for around 2.2K DEF and 35K HP.

Feb 20, 2023, 14:3302/20/23
09/02/22
176
kramaswamy.kr

Veno's A1 doesn't really add damage - it just speeds it up, which doesn't really matter for CB. You'll gain more damage from someone who can actually hit - for example, Ronda.

I agree. I think Ronda's raw damage + her passive will give you more output than the poisons Urogrim is putting up. I know it "says" 15% chance but from my experience it procs a lot during a CB fight. 

As far as build, my Ronda is still in 4 piece Relentless (since I had her blessing as Brimstone before they decided to require accuracy) / 2 piece Defiant. Between her own attacks, the extra procs from Relentless, and the passive attacks, BS was up pretty much 100% of the fight.

Her stats currently are: 45K Health, 4.5K Attack, 2.2K Def, 175 speed, 100% CR, 172% CR Dmg

I don't use her in CB anymore but when I did she was always 1st or 2nd on damage.

Feb 20, 2023, 14:4002/20/23
06/25/20
6641

Be careful around using Relentless in CB. My expectation is that you'll just end up having her die due to her defensive buffs running out at the wrong time - specifically, during the turn-2 attack.

Feb 20, 2023, 14:5002/20/23
08/20/22
22
Kankle69

I agree. I think Ronda's raw damage + her passive will give you more output than the poisons Urogrim is putting up. I know it "says" 15% chance but from my experience it procs a lot during a CB fight. 

As far as build, my Ronda is still in 4 piece Relentless (since I had her blessing as Brimstone before they decided to require accuracy) / 2 piece Defiant. Between her own attacks, the extra procs from Relentless, and the passive attacks, BS was up pretty much 100% of the fight.

Her stats currently are: 45K Health, 4.5K Attack, 2.2K Def, 175 speed, 100% CR, 172% CR Dmg

I don't use her in CB anymore but when I did she was always 1st or 2nd on damage.

Okay, I guess I can get simillar stats w/o relentless gear. I am curious how it will turn out to be. I have to say I am dissapointed with Jintoro. He is nowhere close to Ronda in terms of dmg in CB. I guess he fits more into UNK composition as you can just focus on offensive stats.

Feb 20, 2023, 14:5802/20/23
06/25/20
6641
Denuch94

Okay, I guess I can get simillar stats w/o relentless gear. I am curious how it will turn out to be. I have to say I am dissapointed with Jintoro. He is nowhere close to Ronda in terms of dmg in CB. I guess he fits more into UNK composition as you can just focus on offensive stats.

Jintoro is an absolute CB beast. I use him on my 1-key UNM team, and he regularly gets 25M+ damage on his own.

I don't know if he'll outperform Ronda, but my expectation is that yes, he will - since he brings Weaken with his A3, which your team would otherwise be lacking.

Feb 20, 2023, 14:5802/20/23
08/20/22
22
kramaswamy.kr

Jintoro is an absolute CB beast. I use him on my 1-key UNM team, and he regularly gets 25M+ damage on his own.

I don't know if he'll outperform Ronda, but my expectation is that yes, he will - since he brings Weaken with his A3, which your team would otherwise be lacking.

Do you use him in unkillable team?

Feb 20, 2023, 15:0902/20/23
06/25/20
6641
Denuch94

Do you use him in unkillable team?

Yes. But that shouldn't really change anything. You're comparing apples to apples - Ronda vs Jintoro on the same team setup. And my guess is that Jintoro should outdamage Ronda. That said, relentless does add a lot of damage for Jintoro, so I'd need to experiment to see if that holds up.

Feb 20, 2023, 15:1202/20/23
08/20/22
22

Maybe the damage difference I expirenced comes from the fact that Ronda is fully booked while Jintoro is not at all. Ive heard a lot of good opinions about him and eventually I will build him properly but at the moment where I am (180+ days IG) I need to focus more on champions like Scyl or UDK whos are going to help elswhere a lot. 

Feb 20, 2023, 15:1902/20/23
09/02/22
176
kramaswamy.kr

Be careful around using Relentless in CB. My expectation is that you'll just end up having her die due to her defensive buffs running out at the wrong time - specifically, during the turn-2 attack.

You are correct. That did happen on a few occasions but back when I ran her in my CB team I didn't really have good champions or gear. My strategy was to just try and unload as much damage as I could in the 20 - 25 rounds before CB one shotted my entire team. Brimstone was a big chunk of my damage so having Ronda take as many turns as possible was a priority. I tried running w/ Sepu & Vogoth and while my team did live longer my damage was either the same or less since I was trading speed / dps for survivability.  

The CB team I ran her in was Staltus, Ronda, Fayne (aka "Floor Spice" since she was always dead), Apothecary, & Godseaker Aniri. I was stuck @ 3 keying Nightmare CB.

I lucked up about a month ago with pulls & the Pythion fusion. My CB team now is: Acrizia, Dracomorph, Pythion, Godseaker Aniri, & Elva. Acrizia is INSANE for CB (average 250k+ per hit). My entire focus is on keeping Dec Def / Weaken up and rolling through the 3 revivers so that Acrizia can do her thing. I normally last between 25 & 30 turns on Ultra NM & 40 turns on Nightmare. Acrizia is always 75% of the total damage.

I'm still chasing the proper comp for an Unkillable team. I pulled Sir Nicholas but have been too lazy to regear / speed tune everyone. I may take a look at it next time we have a 50% (or free) gear swap. 

Feb 20, 2023, 15:2102/20/23
06/25/20
6641
Denuch94

Maybe the damage difference I expirenced comes from the fact that Ronda is fully booked while Jintoro is not at all. Ive heard a lot of good opinions about him and eventually I will build him properly but at the moment where I am (180+ days IG) I need to focus more on champions like Scyl or UDK whos are going to help elswhere a lot. 

I mean - yeah, booking is night and day. Not only are you gaining 25% more damage on each of his attacks - you're also reducing the cooldowns on the A2 and A3 by one turn apiece, which is huge, because the bulk of his damage comes from his A3's unique ability to trigger 5 times every four uses.

Feb 20, 2023, 16:2502/20/23
06/16/22
203
Denuch94

Maybe the damage difference I expirenced comes from the fact that Ronda is fully booked while Jintoro is not at all. Ive heard a lot of good opinions about him and eventually I will build him properly but at the moment where I am (180+ days IG) I need to focus more on champions like Scyl or UDK whos are going to help elswhere a lot. 

Hey Denuch, we were chatting in Reddit over DMs. Glad you brought it to some of the guys here. I do recall we talked about definitely including Jintoro as your DPS, and specifically to get you both Decrease Def and Weaken. 

As others suggested, we might consider removing Urogrim to slot in Ronda at this moment, but I would try to build up your Jintoro. You mentioned needing champs that are going to help you in multiple areas of the game, and Jintoro is not only a strong CB champ but is likely going to carry your Faction Wars for Shadowkin, and have some strong viability in arena and some dungeons. 

Feb 20, 2023, 16:2802/20/23
06/16/22
203

Small other note: I noticed you said "And also for this team gear is not fully upgraded which may have an impact - for my previous team all was upgraded."

You want to make sure you are doing CB with a very solid set of champions. You don't want a bunch of un-booked, un-mastered, un-geared champs competing in CB. You need all the bonuses (Especially bottom row) from masteries as well as the strong defensive stats in the Green tree in a killable comp. 

You also would ideally want full books (or mostly full) on all of the champs included in your main CB lineup. 

Feb 21, 2023, 11:0302/21/23
08/20/22
22
kmanmott

Small other note: I noticed you said "And also for this team gear is not fully upgraded which may have an impact - for my previous team all was upgraded."

You want to make sure you are doing CB with a very solid set of champions. You don't want a bunch of un-booked, un-mastered, un-geared champs competing in CB. You need all the bonuses (Especially bottom row) from masteries as well as the strong defensive stats in the Green tree in a killable comp. 

You also would ideally want full books (or mostly full) on all of the champs included in your main CB lineup. 

For the line about masteries and books - for now it is not so bad:

VENO - fully booked / all masteries

URO - fully booked / all masteries

VOGOHT - passive and A1 fully booked / all masteries

SEPULCHER - A2 booked / all masteries

NIA - A3 lacks last book to make her 3 turn CD / all masteries

For other important champs I have - Ronda (full/full), Jintoro (unbooked/full masteries). I guess I will build Jintoro next but It will for sure take some time.

I guess current set of champions as shown in 1st post is pretty solid and worth of further improvement. Nia A3 when fully booked will make runs more consistient with damage mitigation during both AoE. Sepulcher needs to be speed tuned at it will also help a lot. Vogoth is just monster in this composition and I had no idea how strong he may be. Regarding Uro and Veno I still need to work on CR for them as they're not 100% and this may pump numbers up. 

The damage and survivability might be improved but I am very pleased with the basics I have :) 

Regarding Jintoro - I swapped him with Uro beacuse he is booked and also he procs Nia passive due to his A3 which helps a lot arround round 35-40. In future he will be replaced probablly.

i


Feb 21, 2023, 15:4902/21/23
10/15/20
2041

As a small sidenote, I would place Vogoth at the last team position in this comp. Damage your team recieves from AoE attacks is not really dealt at the same time, but from team position 1 to 5. In your actual team order, Venomage and Urogrim take the damage after Vogoth's passive heal occured.