Running UNM with only Helicath, your best bet is probably this comp:

https://deadwoodjedi.com/speed-tunes/ninjahelicath-v2/

I believe the basis for it is this comp: https://deadwoodjedi.com/speed-tunes/ninja-hellcat-unkillable/

For it to work, though, you need a champ with a 3-turn cooldown block debuffs skill, and I don't think I see one in your list. The other approach is to use Doompriest instead, which you do have. So, I think you can go with:

• Helicath
• Doompriest
• Ninja
• Fatman
• Scabrius

Thank you. This looks like it works on NM demon lord as well, just have to replace Ninja with a DPS per the notes. My current set up is broken on NM so that would be a nice change. Is Scabrius a better poisoner than Frozen Banshee?

FB wins out, strictly on the poisoning front. Fatman's AA is on a 4-turn cooldown, and both he and FB will be 1:1, so, simplistically speaking, you're going to get roughly four poisons every cycle with FB, whereas with Scab, you're getting a 70% chance for a poison, two times per cycle, for an average of roughly 1.5 poisons per cycle.

But, Scab brings Leech, which I think will be necessary, since you don't have a full unkillable rotation going. Someone will be eating a stun, and while Doompriest will be healing them a bit, I'm worried that the person will end up dying by around turn 35 or so without the Leech to heal them back to full.

Certainly worth testing, though.

@djs078 I would not use this comp without Tatura, Brogni, or another proper Block Debuffs champ.

It will not work on Spirit Affinity at all. It will not work on any other affinity if Ninja or your Ally Attack champion takes the stun, cause it will prevent cooldown of their skills, which throws off the Ninja A1 TM boost, which throws off the entire tune. Doompriest is not a substitute for Brogni or Tatura here in any way.

Basically, Fatman or Ninja gets stunned, then their cooldowns are delayed by 1 turn, and Fatman doesn't Ally Attack when he is supposed to, causing a Ninja A1 TM boost at the wrong time. If your Ninja gets stunned, his A2 or A3 doesn't reset, causing an A1 TM boost at the wrong time. If Helicath gets stunned, your cooldowns are messed up.

You MUST have a Block Debuffs champ to use this comp. Please don't waste your resources building it. 

Lots of good info, thank you. For reference, this is my current 2-key UNM team and it works very well for most affinities (but void especially):

i

Given my above roster, is there a decent comp I could build with Fahrakin and free up my Ninja for other things? Or is my lack of another block damage champ and a 3-turn block debuffs champ the biggest issue?

I would suspect Fatman will be a significant drop in damage versus Ninja, but I can understand wanting Ninja to be at much faster speeds to use in other content.

I do like Krama's suggestion of getting Scabruis in there to replace Frozen, especially in a comp without CA, which is truly the only comp she outshines other, more recent poisoners in (poisoners like Venomage or Scabrius even).

I'll look at some comps, but the Helicopter comps should be able to handle Fatman no worries. Will check it out and get back to this thread.

I'm not sure I follow - the second version there specifically says Doompriest *or* a 3-turn block damage champ. What am I missing?

They are different teams with different rotations and different speeds. The second version IS NOT a Ninja/Ally Attack friendly comp.

Ally Attack and Ninja's A1 cause a different speed requirement for the champs in the team. This speed requirement is to make up for his TM boost, and even so, Ninja "jumps around" the turn order. This jumping around means you cannot reliably have a Doompriest go immediately after AoE2 and the Stune, meaning you cannot cleanse these debuffs before they break the speed tune.

Your first link does not work with Doompriest, only a Block Debuffs champ on a 3 turn cooldown. Your second link does work with Doompriest. Different speed tunes require different ways to deal with debuffs.

Ah. Fair enough. I didn't actually look too carefully, I just assumed that the first one was an optimized version of the second, since the text on both pages were the same.

So, do you also disagree with the second one, then?

The OP is running the second comp already, so I certainly don't disagree with it :)

Alright. I'll see myself out, then :p

:P No worries, I appreciate you making suggestions and helping people. :)

You both are very helpful and I appreciate the discussion. I could also keep things as they are until I (one day) pull a 3-turn block buffs champ or another block damage champ. I'm sure it'll happen :)

This would be my plan, tbh.

You'll put a lot of resources into shooting for that full one key in a tune that might not truly be able to get there. So waiting is perhaps the best idea. :)