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Wand of submission and total guard?

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27 квіт. 2026, 09:1527.04.26
15.01.22
1

Wand of submission and total guard?

I was wondering if wand of submission still procs on a champ with total guard? 

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16
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ShortOnSkillzModerator
27 квіт. 2026, 22:4827.04.26
6 трав. 2026, 20:22(edited)
24.06.19
4528

Edited for clarification below. 

28 квіт. 2026, 03:2028.04.26
31.01.20
2454
ShortOnSkillz

Edited for clarification below. 

(1) I assumed he was asking about it going the other direction. Ex: Armanz in Total Guard tries to sheep a toon wearing a Wand.  Will the Armanz get sheeped on a Wand Proc?  If not, what happens to the sheeping?

(2) Wand Procs all the time when using CC skills against opponents in SS or Mercurial, even when there should be no Debuff to reflect.  I got so tired of my Nick getting frozen by Wand Procs off of toons in SS or Mercurial that I put this on the Discord Suggestion Log 2 days ago.  

"If my champion is unable to place a CC debuff due to Stoneskin or Total Guard buffs, then a Wand should not be able to reflect said debuff since there is no debuff to reflect. You need to switch the order of operations on that."   

ShortOnSkillzModerator
28 квіт. 2026, 12:0828.04.26
24.06.19
4528
WileyMan

(1) I assumed he was asking about it going the other direction. Ex: Armanz in Total Guard tries to sheep a toon wearing a Wand.  Will the Armanz get sheeped on a Wand Proc?  If not, what happens to the sheeping?

(2) Wand Procs all the time when using CC skills against opponents in SS or Mercurial, even when there should be no Debuff to reflect.  I got so tired of my Nick getting frozen by Wand Procs off of toons in SS or Mercurial that I put this on the Discord Suggestion Log 2 days ago.  

"If my champion is unable to place a CC debuff due to Stoneskin or Total Guard buffs, then a Wand should not be able to reflect said debuff since there is no debuff to reflect. You need to switch the order of operations on that."   

Interesting, ill have to dig into it some more.  

6 трав. 2026, 17:1406.05.26
31.01.20
2454
ShortOnSkillz

Interesting, ill have to dig into it some more.  

What did you find out on this?

6 трав. 2026, 17:2406.05.26
19.12.19
7197
WileyMan

What did you find out on this?

I'm certain they will say working as intended. Intuitively, I agree.  The wand acts 1st, pretty straightforward.  Now, your sir nick may not like it. But I sure as he'll don't want my wands wasted on all my toons as currently built.


ShortOnSkillzModerator
6 трав. 2026, 17:2906.05.26
24.06.19
4528
WileyMan

What did you find out on this?

Forgot to ask.  But from recent experience in LA Id lean towards the Debuff gets reflected but if the applier is in Mercurial it just disappears into the ether. 

ShortOnSkillzModerator
6 трав. 2026, 17:3006.05.26
24.06.19
4528
Trips

I'm certain they will say working as intended. Intuitively, I agree.  The wand acts 1st, pretty straightforward.  Now, your sir nick may not like it. But I sure as he'll don't want my wands wasted on all my toons as currently built.


I believe the game always checks if a debuff is applied 1st.

6 трав. 2026, 17:3106.05.26
19.12.19
7197
ShortOnSkillz

Forgot to ask.  But from recent experience in LA Id lean towards the Debuff gets reflected but if the applier is in Mercurial it just disappears into the ether. 

This makes sense though, no?


6 трав. 2026, 17:3506.05.26
19.12.19
7197
ShortOnSkillz

I believe the game always checks if a debuff is applied 1st.

Maybe before relics? Do other relics work same or different? I'm guessing wands aren't coded different. 

ShortOnSkillzModerator
6 трав. 2026, 17:3806.05.26
24.06.19
4528
Trips

This makes sense though, no?


To me this is how it should work yes.  

6 трав. 2026, 18:1506.05.26
31.01.20
2454
ShortOnSkillz

To me this is how it should work yes.  

I know how it works right now, but how does it make sense to reflect a debuff that is never placed at all?

Your initial answer to the OP was that it should not reflect since it was never placed. Now you are saying the opposite?   

6 трав. 2026, 18:4906.05.26
19.12.19
7197
WileyMan

I know how it works right now, but how does it make sense to reflect a debuff that is never placed at all?

Your initial answer to the OP was that it should not reflect since it was never placed. Now you are saying the opposite?   

Like you said an order of operations exists, it just so happens the relic is 1st.  Honestly I haven't seen anybody complain about this, not even the crybaby reddit beotches... lol

Your suggestion would be a huge nerf to wand imo, that could cause a major shitstorm.  


ShortOnSkillzModerator
6 трав. 2026, 18:5606.05.26
24.06.19
4528
WileyMan

I know how it works right now, but how does it make sense to reflect a debuff that is never placed at all?

Your initial answer to the OP was that it should not reflect since it was never placed. Now you are saying the opposite?   

Sorry kinda going back and forth based on who is wearing Mercurial in my answers to you and Trips.

My current understanding of order of operations

Debuff Attempt > Wand Reflects > Debuffer receives debuff.

The Debuffer will not receive the Reflected debuff if they are in a set that blocks it.

Wand Reflect will take place if an attempt at a debuff occurs even when the receiver of the debuff is in a set that blocks it.  ( This is the one I need to double check for sure )

Misspoke a bit earlier when I said "game checks if a debuff is applied first", should have said game checks if a debuff is attempted to be applied 1st. 

6 трав. 2026, 19:4206.05.26
31.01.20
2454
Trips

Like you said an order of operations exists, it just so happens the relic is 1st.  Honestly I haven't seen anybody complain about this, not even the crybaby reddit beotches... lol

Your suggestion would be a huge nerf to wand imo, that could cause a major shitstorm.  


I use a Wand of Submission on quite a few of my Arena Toons, and I don't think I should be getting Wand Procs in that situation even if it does benefit me.

By definition, you should not be able to reflect a debuff that was never placed.  That is not a nerf; that is a correction of an error.

6 трав. 2026, 20:0206.05.26
19.12.19
7197
WileyMan

I use a Wand of Submission on quite a few of my Arena Toons, and I don't think I should be getting Wand Procs in that situation even if it does benefit me.

By definition, you should not be able to reflect a debuff that was never placed.  That is not a nerf; that is a correction of an error.

Pemdas 


ShortOnSkillzModerator
6 трав. 2026, 20:2206.05.26
24.06.19
4528
WileyMan

I use a Wand of Submission on quite a few of my Arena Toons, and I don't think I should be getting Wand Procs in that situation even if it does benefit me.

By definition, you should not be able to reflect a debuff that was never placed.  That is not a nerf; that is a correction of an error.

Double checked with Grem and the debuff reflect will happen even if the intended receiver is in a set that would block it.